July 29, 2014, 08:33:32 PM

Author Topic: Still waiting for high MP canon while Nikon is coming out with new 800  (Read 32562 times)

Jglaser757

  • SX50 HS
  • **
  • Posts: 9
    • View Profile
I've waited a long time for Nikon to recapture the lead on Nikon and their 36 mp camera. And now I read that Nikon will introduce an upgrade to the 800e in June.  Why am I not jumping ship?  I do have a lot of canon glass and have been a local customer. I own the mk III and 6d and I love the images .BUTT, COME ON ALREADY cCanon. Get your stuff together!

canon rumors FORUM


mackguyver

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 2437
  • Who Dares Wins
    • View Profile
    • My Personal Work
I've waited a long time for Nikon to recapture the lead on Nikon and their 36 mp camera. And now I read that Nikon will introduce an upgrade to the 800e in June.  Why am I not jumping ship?  I do have a lot of canon glass and have been a local customer. I own the mk III and 6d and I love the images .BUTT, COME ON ALREADY cCanon. Get your stuff together!
The thing I wonder about your post and others like it is - how many people "need" 36+ MP?  Sure, it's always nice to have more than you need, but unless you have the very best lenses - Canon Mk II big whites, Zeiss Otus 55 & Zeiss 135 f/2, etc., there will be little increase in actual resolution.  It would help a lot with cropping and would equalize the FF vs. crop war for wildlife...but again, only with the very best lenses and technique.  I've printed many large prints at 40x60 or larger at 300dpi (that's around a 3x enlargement for 5DII files) and found little to complain about.  Most people share photos at 1600x1200 or less online and rarely, if ever, print anything over 8x12"...but these are the people who often scream the loudest over their inadequate megapixel bodies!

While we wait for more MP, I'll keep shooting what I've got and won't lose any sleep over my 18 and 22 MP bodies 8)
EOS 1D X, 5DIII, M + EF 24 f/1.4II, 50 f/1.2, 85 f/1.2II, 300 f/2.8 IS II || 16-35 f/4 IS, 24-70 f/2.8II, 70-200 f/2.8II || TS-E 17 f/4, 24 f/3.5II || M 22 f/2, 18-55 f/3.5-5.6 IS || 1.4x III, 2x III

sagittariansrock

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1170
    • View Profile
I've waited a long time for Nikon to recapture the lead on Nikon and their 36 mp camera. And now I read that Nikon will introduce an upgrade to the 800e in June.  Why am I not jumping ship?  I do have a lot of canon glass and have been a local customer. I own the mk III and 6d and I love the images .BUTT, COME ON ALREADY cCanon. Get your stuff together!
The thing I wonder about your post and others like it is - how many people "need" 36+ MP?  Sure, it's always nice to have more than you need, but unless you have the very best lenses - Canon Mk II big whites, Zeiss Otus 55 & Zeiss 135 f/2, etc., there will be little increase in actual resolution.  It would help a lot with cropping and would equalize the FF vs. crop war for wildlife...but again, only with the very best lenses and technique.  I've printed many large prints at 40x60 or larger at 300dpi (that's around a 3x enlargement for 5DII files) and found little to complain about.  Most people share photos at 1600x1200 or less online and rarely, if ever, print anything over 8x12"...but these are the people who often scream the loudest over their inadequate megapixel bodies!

While we wait for more MP, I'll keep shooting what I've got and won't lose any sleep over my 18 and 22 MP bodies 8)


While most people (e.g., me) don't need a high MP camera, I am sure there's a market for it. There are a lot of people in landscape, product or architecture who have continued with or switched to Nikon because of the D800. While it's not as popular or as versatile as the 5DIII and therefore doesn't sell as much, it still has a unique niche in the dSLR industry.
I believe the lack of a high MP camera in Canon's lineup reflects still-developing technology rather than lack of interest in the market.
EOS 5DIII, EOS 5D | Rokinon 14mm f/2.8, TS-E 17mm f/4L, EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM, EF 35mm f/1.4L USM, EF 40mm f/2.8 STM, EF 50mm f/1.4 USM, EF 135mm f/2L USM, EF 70-200 f/2.8L IS II USM, 1.4x III, 2x III | 600-EX-RT x3

3kramd5

  • Canon 70D
  • ****
  • Posts: 315
    • View Profile
I believe the lack of a high MP camera in Canon's lineup reflects still-developing technology rather than lack of interest in the market.


Or they decided to do the hard thing (refreshing a large portion of their lens lineup) before doing the relatively easy thing (increasing pixel density in a single body). As has been noted numerous times, both the optics and the electronics net the effective system resolution, hence the 5D3 + lenses resolving better on average than the D800 + lenses.

Either way, people would be clamoring. I kinda suspect that if they had instead just crapped out a full frame camera with 7D-sized pixels and people only saw marginal IQ gains (albeit with large, unwieldy files) due to the unavailability of sufficiently good glass, the clamoring would be louder. But you never know.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2014, 06:22:28 PM by 3kramd5 »
5D3, 5D2, 40D; Various lenses

Northstar

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1385
    • View Profile
It def would help when cropping 100% or more.   

I would love a 1dx that shot 10 fps with a 36+ mp sensor for field sports...it would turn my 300mm into a 400/500mm from a cropping perspective.(just a ball park estimate when I say 400/500mm because i have no clue what the actual math/ratio is to figure that out??)

Now that i write it, i'd be curious to know if someone could enlighten me on this. 



Sport Shooter

1dX and 5d3... 24-70 2.8ii, 70-200 2.8ii, 1.4xiii and 2xiii, 85, 40mm, 300 2.8L IS....430ex

100

  • Rebel T5i
  • ****
  • Posts: 118
    • View Profile
I've waited a long time for Nikon to recapture the lead on Nikon and their 36 mp camera. And now I read that Nikon will introduce an upgrade to the 800e in June.  Why am I not jumping ship?  I do have a lot of canon glass and have been a local customer. I own the mk III and 6d and I love the images .BUTT, COME ON ALREADY cCanon. Get your stuff together!

Why does Nikon need to upgrade the D800e if Canon has nothing to compete with it?
Maybe it’s not the big seller the “I want more megapixel crowd” think it is.
The funny thing is that a lot of Nikon users are asking for a true successor to the D700 (less megapixels, more fps, smaller files).

eml58

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1404
  • 1Dx
    • View Profile
It's an interesting situation, why have Canon not to date followed through with a higher MP Body ?? it's a little like "what's the meaning of life".

The decision to amalgamate the 1D/1Ds lines in the 1Dx was in my opinion a bad call on the future Market by Canon (albeit I think the 1Dx is a wonderful Camera Body), I just don't think their Marketing People clearly saw the Market need for a higher MP Camera (or they did, and simply weren't able to match technologies with Nikon/Sony), they got that wrong, and now they need some catch up time in designing a Sensor that approaches what the Market wants, and is comparable, better, than the Nikon 36MP sensor, and more recently the Sony 36MP sensor, and now, the Sony 50MP sensor that is finding it's way into the Haselblad, Phase One etc, and in particular the about to be released Pentax 645z.

The Pentax 645z is of huge interest to me, this is a 51MP CMOS Sensor, 3fps, high ISO Range, reasonable Lens availability, weather sealed Body, and not an inordinate amount of Money at less than 10k, that's a pretty good deal when compared to the Phase One IQ250 & Haselblad offerings of a similar type at 35k to 45k.

The Pentax will be limited as a Wildlife Camera @ 3fps, but the D800 which I have owned, and the Sony a7r which I do own, both operate at a Maximum 4fps, so not a huge difference there, even the 5DMK III is a limiting 6fps.

But the Pentax for Landscape, Portrait & Still Life should be a very interesting Camera at this price.

If, and it seems to be a huge if, Canon develop & drop a higher MP Body into the Market, it needs to be better all round than the Sony a7r & D800E, and hopefully it will be, there's no doubt in my mind that Canon have lost Market share due to these two Cameras from Sony & Nikon, and in loosing Market share to these two Bodies they loos Lens Market etc etc.

I believe Canon simply miss read the Market trend, and have paid a price, now they need to play catch up, and they need to do it with spades, that is, put into the Market a Body that pulls that Market share back from Nikon & Sony, from what I've seen over the Past few Years, I'm not convinced canon can or will be able to do that, I personally stay with Canon because of the Big Whites, there's very little difference in abilities between the D4s & the 1Dx, the D800/5DMK III, and Canon no longer have anything comparable to the Nikon D3x other than the 1DsMK III which isn't in the same league.

Of course this is all Navel contemplation, and ultimately useless, but it's fun at 0600 on my 3rd Espresso.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2014, 07:44:53 PM by eml58 »
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

canon rumors FORUM


Mt Spokane Photography

  • Canon EF 600mm f/4L IS II
  • ********
  • Posts: 8275
    • View Profile
I've waited a long time for Nikon to recapture the lead on Nikon and their 36 mp camera. And now I read that Nikon will introduce an upgrade to the 800e in June.  Why am I not jumping ship?  I do have a lot of canon glass and have been a local customer. I own the mk III and 6d and I love the images .BUTT, COME ON ALREADY cCanon. Get your stuff together!

Why does Nikon need to upgrade the D800e if Canon has nothing to compete with it?
Maybe it’s not the big seller the “I want more megapixel crowd” think it is.
The funny thing is that a lot of Nikon users are asking for a true successor to the D700 (less megapixels, more fps, smaller files).

Yes, I bought a D800, and files that open to  125 - 150 MB are no fun to edit.  Its hard to imagine what editing a 200 - 250 MB file would be like.
 
 
The files open so large due to the huge amount of noise in any image over about ISO 800.  NEF is a compressed file, but they are uncompressed in order to edit them.  I tried editing 1500 shots that I took at high ISO over a couple of nights.  I had to use a ton of NR on them, and that took minutes per image to run.
 
I sold the D800 and bought a 5D MK III, it is much better for high ISO photography.  The D800 is great at ISO 200, assuming that you buy lenses that can resolve the high MP, and that you use a tripod or very fast shutter speed.  Its difficult to actually get the high resolution possible, many users do not and giv up.

100

  • Rebel T5i
  • ****
  • Posts: 118
    • View Profile
It def would help when cropping 100% or more.   

I would love a 1dx that shot 10 fps with a 36+ mp sensor for field sports...it would turn my 300mm into a 400/500mm from a cropping perspective.(just a ball park estimate when I say 400/500mm because i have no clue what the actual math/ratio is to figure that out??)

Now that i write it, i'd be curious to know if someone could enlighten me on this.

Cropping 100% is the same as deleting the image ;-)
If you want your 300 to have a 400/500 FOV, buy a 7D a 70D or wait for the 7DII. The 1.6 crop gets you a 480mm FOV.

A 1.6 crop means the surface area of the FF sensor is 2.56 (1.6*1.6) times as big. If you want to crop FF to APS-C your crop is 39% of the surface area of FF (100/2.56).
If you want to know how much to crop for a specific lens to get the same FOV of another lens just divide to get the crop factor.
300 to 400 => 400/300 = 1.333 cropfactor
300 to 500 => 500/300 = 1.666 cropfactor

FunPhotons

  • 7D
  • *****
  • Posts: 405
    • View Profile
The thing I wonder about your post and others like it is - how many people "need" 36+ MP?

The thing I wonder about your post and others like it is why do you care? I want a high MP body, I can pay for it, and I'm tired of people telling me I don't (why do people overquote?) "need" it. I want it, got it?

johnf3f

  • Canon 70D
  • ****
  • Posts: 269
  • Canon 1Dx
    • View Profile
I've waited a long time for Nikon to recapture the lead on Nikon and their 36 mp camera. And now I read that Nikon will introduce an upgrade to the 800e in June.  Why am I not jumping ship?  I do have a lot of canon glass and have been a local customer. I own the mk III and 6d and I love the images .BUTT, COME ON ALREADY cCanon. Get your stuff together!
The thing I wonder about your post and others like it is - how many people "need" 36+ MP?  Sure, it's always nice to have more than you need, but unless you have the very best lenses - Canon Mk II big whites, Zeiss Otus 55 & Zeiss 135 f/2, etc., there will be little increase in actual resolution.  It would help a lot with cropping and would equalize the FF vs. crop war for wildlife...but again, only with the very best lenses and technique.  I've printed many large prints at 40x60 or larger at 300dpi (that's around a 3x enlargement for 5DII files) and found little to complain about.  Most people share photos at 1600x1200 or less online and rarely, if ever, print anything over 8x12"...but these are the people who often scream the loudest over their inadequate megapixel bodies!

While we wait for more MP, I'll keep shooting what I've got and won't lose any sleep over my 18 and 22 MP bodies 8)

+1
I have 18Mp on FF don't want any more! One of the best LARGE prints I have seen was at a Photographers shop in Llangollen. It was a shot of Bantry Bay in Ireland and it covered a whole door - it was shot with a 6mp DSLR. I print to A3+ - I think 18mp will do!

johnf3f

  • Canon 70D
  • ****
  • Posts: 269
  • Canon 1Dx
    • View Profile
The thing I wonder about your post and others like it is - how many people "need" 36+ MP?

The thing I wonder about your post and others like it is why do you care? I want a high MP body, I can pay for it, and I'm tired of people telling me I don't (why do people overquote?) "need" it. I want it, got it?

Because we are trying to help you get better images. If you feel that 30+ mp is an advantage on a 35mm (or smaller) sensor then go for it.
I have tried out MANY DSLR cameras of differing sensor sizes, manufacturers and build qualities. I have always found that the more modest pixel count cameras, relative to the current technology and sensor size, have produced better images.
If you think that MP is the answer, then I wish you luck, I have not found this to be the case.

unfocused

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1923
    • View Profile
    • Unfocused: A photo website
Quote
From Nikon Rumors:The new camera will be based on the D800E (without AA filter) and will contain few small updates (similar to the D4->D4s refresh).

Nikon seems to be following a strategy of minor refreshes. One suspects it is either an effort to generate enthusiasm and interest in the hopes of boosting sales without having to make much of an investment or maybe they need to fix problems with their current bodies. At any rate, I'm glad Canon seems to limit its small upgrades to Powershots and low-end Rebels.

As for the demand for high megapixel bodies, it seems telling that Sony (a company that so many people on this forum seem obsessed with) just released a new high end body with a whopping 12 mp sensor.

Do you think maybe Canon knows the market better than their competitors?
pictures sharp. life not so much. www.unfocusedmg.com

canon rumors FORUM


dak723

  • Power Shot G16
  • **
  • Posts: 29
    • View Profile
I have tried out MANY DSLR cameras of differing sensor sizes, manufacturers and build qualities. I have always found that the more modest pixel count cameras, relative to the current technology and sensor size, have produced better images.
If you think that MP is the answer, then I wish you luck, I have not found this to be the case.

Agreed.  I have found that larger pixels are more important than more pixels.  I had the 6 MP original rebel and over the years rented higher MP cameras as they came out.  Last year rented the 60D and did a few prints to compare.  Granted, I only did a few prints and this was far from a rigid scientific experiment.  What I found was that my 6 MP camera could produce acceptable prints at 180-200 dots per inch allowing me to print around 15 to 16 plus inch prints.  The 18 MP 60D needed approx. 280 DPI for similarly acceptable prints - allowing me to print 18 plus inch prints.  Hardly the difference one might expect from such a huge jump in pixels.  My guess that the difference between a 22 MP and 36 MP camera with the same size sensor would result in virtually no difference in print quality for the same size prints.  Just a guess, of course.  Would be interested if anyone has done such a comparison.

poias

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 166
    • View Profile
Nobody needs 36 mp! At most, we post at 1000x700. So, around 0.5 to 1 mp should be enough for most. Canon gives you plenty with up to 21 mp, should you choose those ridiculous sizes. As Ken Rockwell says, large files clog your harddrive and slow down your machines. I would rather have a nice looking image from a Canon than crappy 36 mp "photos" from nikon. Just how many Pulitzer prizes have D800 images won? Answer: none, nada, zero!

canon rumors FORUM