August 28, 2014, 11:31:12 AM

Author Topic: Still waiting for high MP canon while Nikon is coming out with new 800  (Read 34465 times)

100

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Re: Still waiting for high MP canon while Nikon is coming out with new 800
« Reply #480 on: June 12, 2014, 05:08:56 PM »
Just because a sensor is larger doesn't mean it has less noise and indeed, if you were to take two sensors that used pixels of the same design then both sensors would have equal noise.

If you want to print lets say a 10" by 15" picture of a small sensor you have to enlarge it more. The difference is 1.6*1.6 = 2.56x (Canon APS-C versus FF). What kind of effect do you think that has on the visibility of noise?

What you will see won't be noise but the bi-cubic or whatever method used to invent pixels for the printer to print.

I’m not talking about inventing and adding more pixels to a picture.
Just print the existing pixels of both sensors (FF and APS-C) to the same size photograph.

If both cameras have the same amount of pixels than the pixels of the FF camera are larger. Because of that they gather more light per pixel which leads to less noise in the end result.

If both cameras have the same size pixels, than the noise per pixel will be exactly the same, but the APS-C camera will have 2.56 times less pixels, so all pixels (including the noisy ones) have to be enlarged 2.56 times more to get to the same size photograph. You will end up with less resolution and the noise will be more visible. 

In the end the FF sensor will give you a cleaner (less noisy) picture than APS-C when printed at the same size (or looked at on the same size screen).
« Last Edit: June 12, 2014, 05:17:03 PM by 100 »

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Re: Still waiting for high MP canon while Nikon is coming out with new 800
« Reply #480 on: June 12, 2014, 05:08:56 PM »

traingineer

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Re: Still waiting for high MP canon while Nikon is coming out with new 800
« Reply #481 on: June 12, 2014, 06:45:24 PM »
Honestly Sella, are you trying to be the representative of the niche of the niche of the niche group? The group of Canon users who, just will not agree to anything or anyone and want the most bizarre products to be produced by Canon, and only make up 0.00............1% of Canon users?

Read what I wrote, not what others told you that I wrote. Then learn to think for yourself, instead of having others think for you.

Finished? Now go look up the profit Canon's photographic division made last year and calculate what is 1% (the figure you so randomly plucked from others' posts) of that amount. That is the amount of additional money Canon could have made on each and every product made specially for us "niche of a niche of a niche 1% group of Canon users". Instead, we're spending that amount as a baseline elsewhere.

Think for yourself. Am I right or am I wrong?

I have been reading what you wrote throughout this entire thread, and I didn't say 1%, I decided to go with 0.000001% and my answer is around 1500-3000$. Which I don't think would really benefit Canon at all.
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ajperk

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Re: Still waiting for high MP canon while Nikon is coming out with new 800
« Reply #482 on: June 12, 2014, 06:50:51 PM »
Honestly Sella, are you trying to be the representative of the niche of the niche of the niche group? The group of Canon users who, just will not agree to anything or anyone and want the most bizarre products to be produced by Canon, and only make up 0.00............1% of Canon users?

Read what I wrote, not what others told you that I wrote. Then learn to think for yourself, instead of having others think for you.


Finished? Now go look up the profit Canon's photographic division made last year and calculate what is 1% (the figure you so randomly plucked from others' posts) of that amount. That is the amount of additional money Canon could have made on each and every product made specially for us "niche of a niche of a niche 1% group of Canon users". Instead, we're spending that amount as a baseline elsewhere.

Think for yourself. Am I right or am I wrong?

I have been reading what you wrote throughout this entire thread, and I didn't say 1%, I decided to go with 0.000001% and my answer is around 1500-3000$. Which I don't think would really benefit Canon at all.

I suppose you have to take that $1500 to $3000 and subtract the costs of R&D, manufacturing, marketing, and surely plenty of other costs I'm not thinking about at the moment. Looks pretty bleak pretty quickly.
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traingineer

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Re: Still waiting for high MP canon while Nikon is coming out with new 800
« Reply #483 on: June 12, 2014, 06:54:58 PM »
Honestly Sella, are you trying to be the representative of the niche of the niche of the niche group? The group of Canon users who, just will not agree to anything or anyone and want the most bizarre products to be produced by Canon, and only make up 0.00............1% of Canon users?

Read what I wrote, not what others told you that I wrote. Then learn to think for yourself, instead of having others think for you.


Finished? Now go look up the profit Canon's photographic division made last year and calculate what is 1% (the figure you so randomly plucked from others' posts) of that amount. That is the amount of additional money Canon could have made on each and every product made specially for us "niche of a niche of a niche 1% group of Canon users". Instead, we're spending that amount as a baseline elsewhere.

Think for yourself. Am I right or am I wrong?

I have been reading what you wrote throughout this entire thread, and I didn't say 1%, I decided to go with 0.000001% and my answer is around 1500-3000$. Which I don't think would really benefit Canon at all.

I suppose you have to take that $1500 to $3000 and subtract the costs of R&D, manufacturing, marketing, and surely plenty of other costs I'm not thinking about at the moment. Looks pretty bleak pretty quickly.

Definitely.
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3kramd5

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Re: Still waiting for high MP canon while Nikon is coming out with new 800
« Reply #484 on: June 13, 2014, 12:55:44 AM »
I suppose you have to take that $1500 to $3000 and subtract the costs of R&D, manufacturing, marketing, and surely plenty of other costs I'm not thinking about at the moment. Looks pretty bleak pretty quickly.

...management, NRE, testing, overhead, packaging, shipping, customer support, etc.
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Aglet

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Re: Still waiting for high MP canon while Nikon is coming out with new 800
« Reply #485 on: June 13, 2014, 11:27:11 PM »
Over the past vew pages the bunch of you have just had the most beat-around-the-bushes discussion of Signal to Noise Ratio I've ever seen.

Can't someone find or come up with a simpler explanation of how SNR affects image quality that you can all agree on?
I think 100 was closest in his last post and could simply add that, sensor technology (e.g. pixel size, read noise, dark noise, etc.) being about equal, when printing or scaling to any given size, the greater surface area of a FF sensor allows more noise averaging to occur than the same image, shot with the same field of view, from a smaller sensor.

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Re: Still waiting for high MP canon while Nikon is coming out with new 800
« Reply #485 on: June 13, 2014, 11:27:11 PM »