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Author Topic: New Full Frame Camera in Testing? [CR1]  (Read 53740 times)

neuroanatomist

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Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing? [CR1]
« Reply #45 on: May 28, 2014, 06:56:16 AM »
There's an intellectual property term called 'teaching away', meaning it's ok to make public information that's basically the opposite of what you are really doing.  So, from a purposeful leak about 'better color' we can infer this new camera has a monochrome sensor.

 ;)
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Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing? [CR1]
« Reply #45 on: May 28, 2014, 06:56:16 AM »

Rick

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Do what?
« Reply #46 on: May 28, 2014, 07:00:56 AM »
Bare in mind that the 5DIII resolves nearly as much detail as the D800. It's only the top end optical resolution of a few of the worlds sharpest lenses which can allow the D800 to out resolve the 5DIII and even then, there isn't much between them.

1.) I have both cameras, and the D800E clearly produces more of the fine detail that renders an image more realistic (if all of the resolution-saving techniques are used and the image isn't bludgeoned to death in PPing).
2.) This resolution differential can clearly be seen when using any lens in my bag and most Canon, Zeiss, Sigma et al lenses in current production.
3.) This resolution differential can clearly be seen in downsized images (as small 1800x1200 px for instance).
4.) Many folks "clearly" do not care about or even see the fine details in the natural world.

Now, whether or not "clearly" equals "nearly" is a probably matter of observational skills.


Lightmaster

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Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing? [CR1]
« Reply #47 on: May 28, 2014, 07:31:30 AM »
Bare in mind that the 5DIII resolves nearly as much detail as the D800. It's only the top end optical resolution of a few of the worlds sharpest lenses which can allow the D800 to out resolve the 5DIII and even then, there isn't much between them.

1.) I have both cameras, and the D800E clearly produces more of the fine detail that renders an image more realistic (if all of the resolution-saving techniques are used and the image isn't bludgeoned to death in PPing).
2.) This resolution differential can clearly be seen when using any lens in my bag and most Canon, Zeiss, Sigma et al lenses in current production.
3.) This resolution differential can clearly be seen in downsized images (as small 1800x1200 px for instance).
4.) Many folks "clearly" do not care about or even see the fine details in the natural world.

Now, whether or not "clearly" equals "nearly" is a probably matter of observational skills.

examples speak louder then words.

still sensor + lens is more important then just the sensors.
DXO wrote a nice article about that.

36mp can render more details than 22mp.. well what a suprise.   :D

people claim they can clearly hear the difference between 196 or 256kbit MP3 and 320kbit MP3.. only when you test them (under studio conditions) they can not.
the german CT magazin had done such a test under studio conditons with "gold ears" (audio engineers and selfclaimed audiophiles) and nobody was able to get more right then you would with pure guessing. well one guy who has a hearing disability got 64% right.
that´s because he reacted to the MP3 compression different (because MP3´s auditory masking is made for the average human).

so what i want to say... some stuff is clearly just in peoples imagination. :)
« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 07:43:14 AM by Lightmaster »

privatebydesign

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Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing? [CR1]
« Reply #48 on: May 28, 2014, 07:56:04 AM »
Quote
3.) This resolution differential can clearly be seen in downsized images (as small 1800x1200 px for instance).

I'd like to see examples of that, I once had a very acrimonious thread conversation with a guy who swore he could tell medium format film images from 135 format digital images at 800px, turned out he couldn't. But I'd still like to see some examples of the D800 at 1800 showing "clearly" better resolution.
Too often we lose sight of the fact that photography is about capturing light, if we have the ability to take control of that light then we grow exponentially as photographers. More often than not the image is not about lens speed, sensor size, DR, MP's or AF, it is about the light.

AG

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Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing? [CR1]
« Reply #49 on: May 28, 2014, 08:10:58 AM »
I would like to see a 1DX mk2 or 5Dmk4 both have the ability to shoot 4K video as well.

The issue i can see though wont be heat, but instead justifying the 1DC and its over inflated price tag.
Yes, i shoot video on a DSLR.

neuroanatomist

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Re: Do what?
« Reply #50 on: May 28, 2014, 08:29:17 AM »

3.) This resolution differential can clearly be seen in downsized images (as small 1800x1200 px for instance).
4.) Many folks "clearly" do not care about or even see the fine details in the natural world.

Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.  But I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine image in front of you.

Much of the fine detail in the natural world consists of repetitive patterns – bird feathers, animal fur, fern fronds, etc.  I wonder if you are perceiving moiré as enhanced detail. 

It's easy to make unsubstantiated claims on the Internet.  Show us some 1800x1200 pictures...
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rs

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Re: Do what?
« Reply #51 on: May 28, 2014, 08:50:53 AM »
3.) This resolution differential can clearly be seen in downsized images (as small 1800x1200 px for instance).

How wrong my assumptions are. I was under the impression that if you have two images, both taken with lenses and sensors capable of exceeding 2.1 MP by a big margin, and then output them at a resolution of just 2.1 MP, the resolution would be the same.

Still, what does logic mean when you can throw in a good dose of moiré which can create false information, corrupting the image at any size?
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Re: Do what?
« Reply #51 on: May 28, 2014, 08:50:53 AM »

Ivar

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Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing? [CR1]
« Reply #52 on: May 28, 2014, 09:16:25 AM »
I don't have any more the 5D2 (with similar resolution as the 5D3) but to me the image quality with crappy Nikon zoom lens in front of the D800 looks rather great at 100%  - http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=4299.msg146875#msg146875

Here's another one, hand held (well a wall is used for partial support). So much about the useless camera which can be used only on a tripod deciding by this forum:

And with a 3D feeling:
« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 09:34:23 AM by Ivar »

GMCPhotographics

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Re: Do what?
« Reply #53 on: May 28, 2014, 10:00:49 AM »
Bare in mind that the 5DIII resolves nearly as much detail as the D800. It's only the top end optical resolution of a few of the worlds sharpest lenses which can allow the D800 to out resolve the 5DIII and even then, there isn't much between them.

1.) I have both cameras, and the D800E clearly produces more of the fine detail that renders an image more realistic (if all of the resolution-saving techniques are used and the image isn't bludgeoned to death in PPing).
2.) This resolution differential can clearly be seen when using any lens in my bag and most Canon, Zeiss, Sigma et al lenses in current production.
3.) This resolution differential can clearly be seen in downsized images (as small 1800x1200 px for instance).
4.) Many folks "clearly" do not care about or even see the fine details in the natural world.

Now, whether or not "clearly" equals "nearly" is a probably matter of observational skills.

Whhhhaaaattt???? You mean that DXO labs have lied to me...again????? Nooooooooooo

Mean while....in a galaxy far far away......

neuroanatomist

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Re: Do what?
« Reply #54 on: May 28, 2014, 10:05:19 AM »
a lens that gives 15 P-MP on a 24 MP sensor may very well need a 200MP sensor to be fully resolved, for all intents and purposes, and it certainly doesn't "waste" 9 million sensor pixels.

No, those 9 MP don't 'go away'.  They still take up space on your digital storage media, time to process, etc., even if they don't add anything to the information content of the image.  It's called 'empty resolution' for a reason. 
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pedro

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Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing? [CR1]
« Reply #55 on: May 28, 2014, 10:12:38 AM »
The image files were very similar in size to the EOS 5D Mark III’s 22mp files, but exhibited “much” better colour accuracy and detail. This camera is supposedly for later this year or early next year.


This means better color filter and not so thin CFA as they have now , where reds going towards orange as one example and regarding  the resolution a lighter AA-filter on none as Nikon.

People who have used  a 1DSmk3 and the first 5D knows the difference in the  color  filter which was steaper  and also means less light to the sensor and poorer high iso performance.

Interesting to see what Canon has done and if they can match better sensors like Sonys in color depth, dynamic range .

If it is for next year, I dare to guess that it might be the 5DIV or they give it another year of product cycle and introduce an 1Ds ish body...who knows...As I am looking forward to a 5DV there remains quite some time for me ;-) The 5D3 still rocks!
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rrcphoto

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Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing? [CR1]
« Reply #56 on: May 28, 2014, 10:41:47 AM »
fwiw, I agree with Dilbert.  Seems borderline inconceivable that someone reviewing a laptop image could reliably conclude that color rendition was "much better."  Sounds "hoaxy" to me...  Regardless, I'd be thrilled to see a sub 30 mp canon camera with much better color rendition, dynamic range and/or noise performance.

you've never seen a dreamcolor based laptop?  or heard of hooking and external monitor to one?


privatebydesign

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Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing? [CR1]
« Reply #57 on: May 28, 2014, 11:03:28 AM »
I don't have any more the 5D2 (with similar resolution as the 5D3) but to me the image quality with crappy Nikon zoom lens in front of the D800 looks rather great at 100%  - http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=4299.msg146875#msg146875

Here's another one, hand held (well a wall is used for partial support). So much about the useless camera which can be used only on a tripod deciding by this forum:

And with a 3D feeling:


Ivar,

Whilst there is no doubt the 36mp D800E can resolve more detail in certain situations with certain lenses than a 24mp 5D MkIII, your examples are not good and don't demonstrate that, you are confusing what you can see, which is nice, with what the numbers say you should see, which is a hell of a lot more than you can. Anything over base iso, and 3200 isn't base, impacts resolution, that isn't a Canon fanboy comment, it is a fact. As for a "3D look" that is farcical, the image is the image, if you shot the same image at the same time with any camera from the same place with the same fov, dof, etc then it would look the same, maybe a touch of the clarity slider for lenses that lack multicoatings and contrast, but that is all.

There are differences between the two manufacturers systems, but your examples don't demonstrate those differences.
Too often we lose sight of the fact that photography is about capturing light, if we have the ability to take control of that light then we grow exponentially as photographers. More often than not the image is not about lens speed, sensor size, DR, MP's or AF, it is about the light.

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Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing? [CR1]
« Reply #57 on: May 28, 2014, 11:03:28 AM »

Zv

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Re: Do what?
« Reply #58 on: May 28, 2014, 12:03:21 PM »
a lens that gives 15 P-MP on a 24 MP sensor may very well need a 200MP sensor to be fully resolved, for all intents and purposes, and it certainly doesn't "waste" 9 million sensor pixels.

No, those 9 MP don't 'go away'.  They still take up space on your digital storage media, time to process, etc., even if they don't add anything to the information content of the image.  It's called 'empty resolution' for a reason.

What you wright is total nonsense, for anyone who like real, natural, virtually-analog capture.
It is total nonsense for anyone who wants rugged data that doesn't depend on luck of alignment of pixels and subject transients, and survives geometrical processing like CA, distortion, and perspective correction, rotation, and arbitrary resampling in practically lossless manner.

 ??? Huh?? You've lost me there. Are you just throwing random photographic words together?
Move along nothing to see here!

neuroanatomist

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Re: Do what?
« Reply #59 on: May 28, 2014, 12:16:22 PM »
a lens that gives 15 P-MP on a 24 MP sensor may very well need a 200MP sensor to be fully resolved, for all intents and purposes, and it certainly doesn't "waste" 9 million sensor pixels.

No, those 9 MP don't 'go away'.  They still take up space on your digital storage media, time to process, etc., even if they don't add anything to the information content of the image.  It's called 'empty resolution' for a reason.

What you wright is total nonsense, for anyone who like real, natural, virtually-analog capture.
It is total nonsense for anyone who wants rugged data that doesn't depend on luck of alignment of pixels and subject transients, and survives geometrical processing like CA, distortion, and perspective correction, rotation, and arbitrary resampling in practically lossless manner.

 ??? Huh?? You've lost me there. Are you just throwing random photographic words together?

I think it lost something in the translation from the Swedish.  Or perhaps the statements only apply to pictures of barbecues and awnings that are pushed 4 stops in post.
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Re: Do what?
« Reply #59 on: May 28, 2014, 12:16:22 PM »