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Author Topic: New Full Frame Camera in Testing? [CR1]  (Read 54002 times)

kalieaire

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Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing? [CR1]
« Reply #60 on: May 28, 2014, 01:25:53 PM »
same image size, much better color, more details... well could be foveon like sensor.
could also be a better bayer sensor.

big question is....are they talking about JPG or RAW....

This is going to have to be a Foveon type sensor.  The only question is was the "similar in size to the EOS 5D Mark III" files are going to be 1/3 the resolution or full resolution.

The current state of DSLRs is the Bayer Sensor which by design creates less detail, the only way to bypass this is either with some new amazing image processing algorithm or via a Foveon style sensor.

If Sigma's lineup is any indication, a 22MP image whose image dimensions are actually 22MP (vs Foveon's inflated x3 sensor 15 MP file creating a 5 MP image) could potentially rival a 40 Megapixel DSLR, and possibly MF, offerings.

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Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing? [CR1]
« Reply #60 on: May 28, 2014, 01:25:53 PM »

danski0224

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Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing? [CR1]
« Reply #61 on: May 28, 2014, 01:28:23 PM »
I'm still trying to use the remaining 90% to 95% of the capabilities of what I have now... :)

A new 1D series would be out of my reach- can't see it being less than a 1DX.

I would be interested in something with Foveon technology though. That would be cool. I was very tempted by the DP3 Merrill.

Etienne

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Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing? [CR1]
« Reply #62 on: May 28, 2014, 02:10:44 PM »
I welcome any and all new developments and improvements in cameras (even non-Canon brands  :o). Most of all, I welcome the ones I can afford. Unfortunately, my GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome) has limited my ability to make future purchases unless I sell some of my current under-utilized stuff  :(

And I'd really like a lightweight FF that can do top notch video (better than my 5DIII), mirrorless or otherwise.

wsmith96

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Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing? [CR1]
« Reply #63 on: May 28, 2014, 03:24:19 PM »
fwiw, I agree with Dilbert.  Seems borderline inconceivable that someone reviewing a laptop image could reliably conclude that color rendition was "much better."  Sounds "hoaxy" to me...  Regardless, I'd be thrilled to see a sub 30 mp canon camera with much better color rendition, dynamic range and/or noise performance.

you've never seen a dreamcolor based laptop?  or heard of hooking and external monitor to one?

Yep - the dreamcolor screens are awesome and priced accordingly.
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Peer

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Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing? [CR1]
« Reply #64 on: May 28, 2014, 03:27:44 PM »

Maybe it's a 10-bit 1DC mark II..? 

-- peer


Skulker

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Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing? [CR1]
« Reply #65 on: May 28, 2014, 04:44:38 PM »
It will be interesting to see how "much better" you can get with the colours?

I use a color checker passport and it does amazing things. To able to drop that tweak will reduce noise quite a bit, I'm all for it. There's a good difference between the 5d3 and 1dx also, so if they really keep pushing for accurate color I'm very happy with that.

I use color checker with the 5d3 and the 1Dx. Couldn't agree more that the results are very satisfactory. I don't see how it will reduce noise.

But remain very interested to see what they are achieving.
If you debate with a fool onlookers can find it VERY difficult to tell the difference.

pedro

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Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing? [CR1]
« Reply #66 on: May 28, 2014, 06:28:52 PM »
Hope there won't be too much of a dissapointment to anyone in case that things don't turn out as expected...
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Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing? [CR1]
« Reply #66 on: May 28, 2014, 06:28:52 PM »

Don Haines

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Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing? [CR1]
« Reply #67 on: May 28, 2014, 06:47:39 PM »
I find it inconceivable that there would not be a new FF camera in testing....
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pedro

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Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing? [CR1]
« Reply #68 on: May 28, 2014, 06:52:31 PM »
I find it inconceivable that there would not be a new FF camera in testing....

Very likely, that there is a new FF camera in testing, we expect a 5DIV for March or summer if they keep their 3 to 3.5 years product cycle. Just thought out loud in case it doesn't contain foevon like technique, although there were recent rumors about a foevon like sensor or am I wrong?
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neuroanatomist

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Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing? [CR1]
« Reply #69 on: May 28, 2014, 07:22:53 PM »
I find it inconceivable that there would not be a new FF camera in testing....

You keep using that word.  I do not think it means what you think it means.

 ;D
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Orangutan

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Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing? [CR1]
« Reply #70 on: May 28, 2014, 07:34:16 PM »
I find it inconceivable that there would not be a new FF camera in testing....

You keep using that word.  I do not think it means what you think it means.

It would be a miracle.

Don Haines

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Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing? [CR1]
« Reply #71 on: May 28, 2014, 07:48:43 PM »
I find it inconceivable that there would not be a new FF camera in testing....

You keep using that word.  I do not think it means what you think it means.

 ;D
I was wondering if anyone would catch on....
An inconceivable Montage
:)
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LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing? [CR1]
« Reply #72 on: May 28, 2014, 07:50:24 PM »
There's an intellectual property term called 'teaching away', meaning it's ok to make public information that's basically the opposite of what you are really doing.  So, from a purposeful leak about 'better color' we can infer this new camera has a monochrome sensor.

 ;)

and from a file size similar to that of the 5D3 that it is either a 1MP B&W sensor or a 100MP B&W sensor.

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Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing? [CR1]
« Reply #72 on: May 28, 2014, 07:50:24 PM »

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing? [CR1]
« Reply #73 on: May 28, 2014, 07:51:32 PM »
Canon often do this kind of thing so that their products are fully tested by trusted professionals and they get the feed back their development engineers need. If they don't do this 1D4 fiascos are likely to occurr. While this kind of leak plays to our emotions, it is necessary for the developement of better camera models. But it is also kind of cool, becuase we get to hear very loose by telling information about prototypes which are currently in devleopment. We know (via other rumours) that Canon have a sensor patent / design which uses a different arrangement of the traditional bayer RGB array. It's likely that this new sensor is a test bed for that particular patent / technology and it appears to be an improvement over the current tech.
Bare in mind that the 5DIII resolves nearly as much detail as the D800. It's only the top end optical resolution of a few of the worlds sharpest lenses which can allow the D800 to out resolve the 5DIII and even then, there isn't much between them. Amusingly, Canon have more lenses in that bracket, than Nikon currently do...Canon's new 24-70IIL is the sharpest zoom lens so far from any brand. When Canon finally releases a camera body with this kind of MP count, there will be a lot of lenses to match the sensor's capabilies, where as Nikon have very few lenses which can match their current sensor tech. Most of their lenses do not optically resolve much over 22mp.
I think this new camera's sensor point to a more efficient use of the RGB array and probably the removal of the AA filter to create sharper and clearer details with  the same resolution of 22mp. If this is the case, the new camera could easily match the D800's sharpness and detail but at a more effficient 22mp. the improvement in colour rendition sound good and i only hope that Canon have employed a simular supporting sensor design to achieve the same (if not better) shadow noise pushability in their raw files. This isn't an expanded DR as some have claimed, it's purely a better control of iso noise in the shadow areas of a raw file. Where as Canon files tend to break up and display banding with the same level of pushing in the shadows.
one could argue that the scene was incorrectly exposed in the first place...but the fact remains, Nikon / Sony currently have a 1.5 stop advantage in this single feature on their sensors. All the other features are a lot closer than the marketing / spin doctors would let you belive.   

You are going into a bit of hyperbole there about how tricky it is to see an extra detail out of the D800 (and don't forget that a 70D has more detail in the center part of what would be a FF than the D800).

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing? [CR1]
« Reply #74 on: May 28, 2014, 07:52:57 PM »
Bare in mind that the 5DIII resolves nearly as much detail as the D800. It's only the top end optical resolution of a few of the worlds sharpest lenses which can allow the D800 to out resolve the 5DIII and even then, there isn't much between them.

1.) I have both cameras, and the D800E clearly produces more of the fine detail that renders an image more realistic (if all of the resolution-saving techniques are used and the image isn't bludgeoned to death in PPing).
2.) This resolution differential can clearly be seen when using any lens in my bag and most Canon, Zeiss, Sigma et al lenses in current production.
3.) This resolution differential can clearly be seen in downsized images (as small 1800x1200 px for instance).
4.) Many folks "clearly" do not care about or even see the fine details in the natural world.

Now, whether or not "clearly" equals "nearly" is a probably matter of observational skills.

examples speak louder then words.

still sensor + lens is more important then just the sensors.
DXO wrote a nice article about that.

36mp can render more details than 22mp.. well what a suprise.   :D

people claim they can clearly hear the difference between 196 or 256kbit MP3 and 320kbit MP3.. only when you test them (under studio conditions) they can not.
the german CT magazin had done such a test under studio conditons with "gold ears" (audio engineers and selfclaimed audiophiles) and nobody was able to get more right then you would with pure guessing. well one guy who has a hearing disability got 64% right.
that´s because he reacted to the MP3 compression different (because MP3´s auditory masking is made for the average human).

so what i want to say... some stuff is clearly just in peoples imagination. :)

DxO also compares system using things like 50mm lenses set to f/1.4 LOL (and things like comparing various 50mm lenses on the same system with one set to 1.2 and another to 1.4 and another to 2.8 LOL)

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Re: New Full Frame Camera in Testing? [CR1]
« Reply #74 on: May 28, 2014, 07:52:57 PM »