Is anyone awake in Canon HQ?

[briansquibb]

I also still think the AF will be crippled as studio stuff doesn't need such 'advanced' AF

The current AF is fine in good light - just not as good as the 1D4 or 7D.

At least it is accurate

[awinphoto]

Tempting but people who get excited about this camera in my estimations are pure number people and not as concerned about quality... Crap in, and crap out... I need my photos to look stunning in print, and if i cant count on it in print, what else is there for me to get excited about?

The principal behind the Luminous Landscape website seems to be fairly excited about the A77 and that's someone that owns and uses an 80MP MF back. Are you saying that someone who shoots professionally with an 80MP MF back is not concerned about IQ?

Dilbert my friend, surely you know the difference between a 80mp medium format sensor and a pixel crammed 24mp crop sensor. Surely you understand how much bigger of a sensor that is compared to even a 35mm sensor. Come on, comparing mf 645 or 67 to a crop sensor is not apples to oranges, it's like apples to watermelons 

It's not neccisarily the size of the sensor or the total pixels in the sensor, it's the technology and quality of info pumped out by said sensor. This is where the canon cameras tend to shine in comparison to Sony. Now canon compared to 80mp medium format.... That's a whole new ball of wax

[dilbert]

Tempting but people who get excited about this camera in my estimations are pure number people and not as concerned about quality... Crap in, and crap out... I need my photos to look stunning in print, and if i cant count on it in print, what else is there for me to get excited about?

The principal behind the Luminous Landscape website seems to be fairly excited about the A77 and that's someone that owns and uses an 80MP MF back. Are you saying that someone who shoots professionally with an 80MP MF back is not concerned about IQ?

Dilbert my friend, surely you know the difference between a 80mp medium format sensor and a pixel crammed 24mp crop sensor. Surely you understand how much bigger of a sensor that is compared to even a 35mm sensor. Come on, comparing mf 645 or 67 to a crop sensor is not apples to oranges, it's like apples to watermelons 

I'm not comparing the cameras. The argument was made that anyone who was interested in IQ would not own a crop sensor with 24MP. I'm merely saying that this is not true and that people who are interested in excellent IQ are also interested in "pixel crammed 24MP sensors."

I'm also 100% sure that everyone that is bemoaning the "higher" MP sensors in Sony cameras would be willing to shout about how good they and that more MP is better if Canon had a crop sensor with more MP that performed as well as the current sensor in the 7D (for example.)

Also, the A77 sensor beats the 7D's sensor in every score except low-light ISO:

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/%28appareil1%29/734|0/%28brand%29/Sony/%28appareil2%29/680|0/%28brand2%29/Nikon/%28appareil3%29/619|0/%28brand3%29/Canon

and "low-light ISO" is not the only reason to buy a camera.

[wockawocka]

Well, the 7D can hardly be described as having a great sensor.... not by todays standards.

Still a good camera and all but never was impressed with it's output.

[Stu_bert]

Tempting but people who get excited about this camera in my estimations are pure number people and not as concerned about quality... Crap in, and crap out... I need my photos to look stunning in print, and if i cant count on it in print, what else is there for me to get excited about?

The principal behind the Luminous Landscape website seems to be fairly excited about the A77 and that's someone that owns and uses an 80MP MF back. Are you saying that someone who shoots professionally with an 80MP MF back is not concerned about IQ?

He's a millionaire and can have any equipment he likes. Photography is a passion he has that also occupies his time. He shoots with everything from a panasonic (forget which one) to a Phase One. But I am not sure how many he sells based on his compact or dSLRs. If you look at his site, he tends to favour disruptive technology over the more evolutionary, and in this respect the EVT of the Sony appeals to him more.

But he is also tired of lugging around copious amounts of equipment, so there are times he favours the Panny or his Leica M9, sometimes he goes dSLR, sometime MF. Wish we all had the money that we could do that.

I think if you asked him why did he get the Sony, it wasn't for 24MP....

[Stu_bert]

The title of the thread caught my eye, but the content is a yawn. My NEX7 is on flood-backorder, so I have no comment on the sensor yet, but I am confident it'll blow the G12 into the weeds, and that is all I'm expecting and asking of it.

Re the comment " Is anyone awake in Canon HQ?" I think it'll be interesting to see if all those prosumers who've endlessly brayed for low MP's have managed to get Canon to clip its own feathers. The other pros I've spoken to, like me, are passing on the new EOS. We're all waiting to see what the 36mp Nikon is going to deliver, because those of us who can and do light our pictures want high MP's, and maximum quality at 100-1000 ISO. Much above that doesn't really matter to us, and we're all stunned that Canon has thrown us into Nikon arms, especially after showcasing a 100mp sensor a year or so ago.

I'm curious. As a pro, have you relayed your concerns to Canon? You must be on CPS, you must have a contact allocated to you. Did you outline your needs and your impending switch away from Canon? Would be interested in whether they listened / how they responded.

At the end of the day, no one body will suit everyone. The 1Dx does not work for you. I can't tell if it will until I see the reviews and get to compare it to my current equipment. Would a 30+MP be more attractive to me? Depends. It's fun to guess, but really will many people make a single decision here until all the major announcements of next year are over and the reviews are in? Some will, based on the fact that they have too much investment in glass (not sure I concur with that view) or because the 1Dx does fulfill their needs. I'll wait and see what materialises before I decide who is listening and who is not....

[awinphoto]

I'm not comparing the cameras. The argument was made that anyone who was interested in IQ would not own a crop sensor with 24MP. I'm merely saying that this is not true and that people who are interested in excellent IQ are also interested in "pixel crammed 24MP sensors."

The arguement was anyone who would buy the sony JUST BECAUSE of the number specs wasn't as interested in IQ... lets be honest here... I've known people who buy that top of the line cameras for no other reason but to say they own the top level cameras (more of bragging rights or a p*nis extension) whereas a regular camera would suit them just as well... There's other things that come into play which few people bring up... we all know with higher MP cameras, the image quality becomes beleaguered even more by lenses... Sony lenses vs Canon lenses... mmmmm  you'll have to argue that one mate... 

[awinphoto]

How about this... this camera (the 7D) is a 2 year old beast and the sony is a few months old... in a year or two when Canon pumps out the 7D2 and the 7D2 all of a sudden boasts a much superior sensor in every way as you suggest it is currently in favor of sony, would we then rip sony apart as people are so willing to do now for Canon?  Frankly this arguement comparison is boring to me and if Sony's offerings are good enough to cause a switch or make others to switch, more power to them... This is a leap frogging game and to freeze frame anything at any one time saying such company if superior because of it is frankly a waste of time and breath. 

[FredBGG]

I think the boys and girls art the Canon HQ are wide awake.

They also have the clout along with Nikon to say it's not about pixel count.
It's about sensor size and pixel size.

The new Canon 1D X is a step in the right direction.

I shoot 75% of my digital work with an 11 MP FF camera at ISO 100. It kind of funny that my day rate is about 2 to 4 times the used value of that camera.

I rent medium format digital occasionally, but more for "political reasons".

I still shoot my more important work on large 6x8cm film. No digital camera comes close to the aesthetic of larger medium format or large format lenses.

I really do not like the look of crop sensor 35mm cameras.

Canon is thinking outside of the spec number wars. I think we may see a very interesting flagship camera soon from Canon. In the video market they came out with a completely new format. I would not be surprised if they do it with a still camera too.

[macfly]

I'm curious. As a pro, have you relayed your concerns to Canon? You must be on CPS, you must have a contact allocated to you. Did you outline your needs and your impending switch away from Canon? Would be interested in whether they listened / how they responded.

Stu_bert sadly CPS isn't that responsive, caring or communicative! It is however well worth the cost of membership for the fast repair turnaround, and having all the micro calibrations checked every year. In all my years as a working pro I've never had any contact of any kind with a camera manufacturer, and the few times I've tried reaching out to them it has lead to a stone wall. 

AG, the tone in your posts is interestingly arrogant, care to share your website so I can see how that kind of attitude translates in pictures?

[dilbert]

I think the boys and girls art the Canon HQ are wide awake.

Let's hope so..
.

They also have the clout along with Nikon to say it's not about pixel count.
It's about sensor size and pixel size.

BUT will the marketplace agree with them? And by marketplace, I mean people who already own P&S cameras that want to take the next step.

The new Canon 1D X is a step in the right direction.

I don't know about a step in the right direction, but it definitely does feel like it has been "built to order" rather than just "churn out a new one."

I shoot 75% of my digital work with an 11 MP FF camera at ISO 100. It kind of funny that my day rate is about 2 to 4 times the used value of that camera.

I'm constantly amused by the number of people that do most of their professional shooting at low ISO values because internet forums would have you believe that if a camera doesn't perform well at ISO 27589247 then it is worthless as it won't take good shots indoors of cats sitting still without using a flash.

I rent medium format digital occasionally, but more for "political reasons".

I still shoot my more important work on large 6x8cm film. No digital camera comes close to the aesthetic of larger medium format or large format lenses.

The one person that I've met doing LF work said they were getting 1GB scans from each photo. At that much resolution, it even puts the 80MP backs to shame.

Canon is thinking outside of the spec number wars. I think we may see a very interesting flagship camera soon from Canon. In the video market they came out with a completely new format. I would not be surprised if they do it with a still camera too.

Which new format did they come out with for the video market?

[dilbert]

I think if you asked him why did he get the Sony, it wasn't for 24MP....

Actually, I think that was the start of it. Sony came out with the A900 and that had 24MP vs the 21MP of the 5D Mark2. It was not long after that when he sold all of his Canon gear. The qualitative difference between the two in prints was irrelevant giving him 3MP extra for no IQ difference. Oh, and no 5D Mark2 banding.

[dilbert]

How about this... this camera (the 7D) is a 2 year old beast and the sony is a few months old... in a year or two when Canon pumps out the 7D2 and the 7D2 all of a sudden boasts a much superior sensor in every way as you suggest it is currently in favor of sony, would we then rip sony apart as people are so willing to do now for Canon?  Frankly this arguement comparison is boring to me and if Sony's offerings are good enough to cause a switch or make others to switch, more power to them... This is a leap frogging game and to freeze frame anything at any one time saying such company if superior because of it is frankly a waste of time and breath.

It's more than just the A77. It's also the NEX-5n and NEX-7.

In just a few short years, Sony has come from behind on MP count to being in front.

And it's not just the MP that they are in front with, it would seem that their product lineup is also superior to Canon's, especially when you consider what's offered at equivalent prices.

I believe that the 1DX has been very carefully thought out in terms of it being a strategic move, but what are they going to do elsewhere with their product lineup?

And that is the basis of the topic of this thread. The Sony threat to Canon is much more than just the A77. Anyone that confines it to just that camera is missing the point of what Sony has done and is doing.

[Stu_bert]

I'm curious. As a pro, have you relayed your concerns to Canon? You must be on CPS, you must have a contact allocated to you. Did you outline your needs and your impending switch away from Canon? Would be interested in whether they listened / how they responded.

Stu_bert sadly CPS isn't that responsive, caring or communicative! It is however well worth the cost of membership for the fast repair turnaround, and having all the micro calibrations checked every year. In all my years as a working pro I've never had any contact of any kind with a camera manufacturer, and the few times I've tried reaching out to them it has lead to a stone wall. 

AG, the tone in your posts is interestingly arrogant, care to share your website so I can see how that kind of attitude translates in pictures?

Macfly, that's a shame. Listening is not that difficult to do in the age of the internet. You'd have thought that they would at least tap into their Pro membership to get some decent feedback. Sure everyone is different, but given they already have the channel you'd think they would use it. Thanks for responding...

[Stu_bert]

I think if you asked him why did he get the Sony, it wasn't for 24MP....

Actually, I think that was the start of it. Sony came out with the A900 and that had 24MP vs the 21MP of the 5D Mark2. It was not long after that when he sold all of his Canon gear. The qualitative difference between the two in prints was irrelevant giving him 3MP extra for no IQ difference. Oh, and no 5D Mark2 banding.

He's a millionaire. He's also compared a G9 or G10 on an A4 print to a MF back (forget which one), and challenged people to tell the difference. Money spent on camera equipment keeps him happy, keeps up the visitors coming to his site. He goes on trips with his friends and spend over $10K on the trip, so I really don't think that he's a good comparison to anyone on this site (apologies if there are a couple of millionaires who hang out here for kicks ).

I think equating him to pursuing IQ because he can afford a Phase One and therefore he would buy the Sony on the same basis is flawed based on his wealth. It's kind of like me spend £50 on an eye-fi cause I wanted to and that's within my disposable income range....