December 18, 2014, 08:46:25 PM

Author Topic: More EOS 7D Replacement Buzz Going Around [CR2]  (Read 10851 times)

ahsanford

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Re: More EOS 7D Replacement Buzz Going Around [CR2]
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2014, 01:45:14 PM »

An STM lens.  Really.  That's pretty weak for what is presumably a best-in-class APS-C rig in the $2k neighborhood.  STM is fine for video, and it's also nice upgrade over the squeaky slow AF motors of the older entry level Rebel kit glass, but 7D2 still shooters would want the speed of USM, right?

Are they legitimately going after pro wildlife/sports guys with this rig or just enthusiasts who want a high burst rate?  Surely the days of kitting this with a relatively average lens are over, aren't they?  (I recognize that the people drooling over a 7D2 likely already have a lot of glass, but the same could be said at the launch of the 5D3 and that had a decent lens kit option...)

Just riffing here:  any chance Canon kits this with a really solid L lens?  I recognize that a 24-something zoom lens will be too long on the wide end for a standard zoom.  So...

Kit it with a 16-35 F/4L IS?

Kit it with a first-ever L lens in an EF-S mount?  An EF-S 15-50 F/4L IS?  An L-quality update to the 17-55 F/2.8 IS?

Kit it with the Sigma 18-35 F/1.8?
  ;D

- A

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Re: More EOS 7D Replacement Buzz Going Around [CR2]
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2014, 01:45:14 PM »

CANONisOK

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Re: More EOS 7D Replacement Buzz Going Around [CR2]
« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2014, 02:32:48 PM »
Kit it with a first-ever L lens in an EF-S mount?  An EF-S 15-50 F/4L IS?  An L-quality update to the 17-55 F/2.8 IS?
An EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 L IS STM? Sounds like a jackalope, but there could be some logic to it. I loved my 17-55mm when I shot APS-C.
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rs

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Re: More EOS 7D Replacement Buzz Going Around [CR2]
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2014, 02:36:36 PM »
Just to throw this out there... If Dual pixel tech is ever going to hit full frame cameras like the 5d4 or 6d2 or 4d then FF will need a compatable STM lens too.

Good point. We already have the 40, but a slow zoom is the typical deployment of such technology. These EF-S zooms so far been optically very good, and very cheap. Does anyone see an EF 28-135/3.5-5.6 IS STM on the horizon? Nikon recently refreshed their budget full frame variable aperture zoom.
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ahsanford

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Re: More EOS 7D Replacement Buzz Going Around [CR2]
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2014, 03:16:57 PM »
Just to throw this out there... If Dual pixel tech is ever going to hit full frame cameras like the 5d4 or 6d2 or 4d then FF will need a compatable STM lens too.

Good point. We already have the 40, but a slow zoom is the typical deployment of such technology. These EF-S zooms so far been optically very good, and very cheap. Does anyone see an EF 28-135/3.5-5.6 IS STM on the horizon? Nikon recently refreshed their budget full frame variable aperture zoom.

This is entirely ignorance on my part as the only STM I own is the pancake, so I'll ask:

1) Do any still shooters who are shooting moving subjects use STM glass at all? 

2) Has STM focusing speed improved to catch up with USM speed? 

3) Does STM work well in Servo for moving subjects?

Please educate me, as I think my first go at STM with the pancake was not impressive on those three fronts.   That lens is a marvel, but only for static shots in my book.

Maybe more recent STM glass is better?

- A

Lee Jay

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Re: More EOS 7D Replacement Buzz Going Around [CR2]
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2014, 03:24:46 PM »

An STM lens.  Really.  That's pretty weak for what is presumably a best-in-class APS-C rig in the $2k neighborhood.  STM is fine for video, and it's also nice upgrade over the squeaky slow AF motors of the older entry level Rebel kit glass, but 7D2 still shooters would want the speed of USM, right?

Are they legitimately going after pro wildlife/sports guys with this rig or just enthusiasts who want a high burst rate?  Surely the days of kitting this with a relatively average lens are over, aren't they?  (I recognize that the people drooling over a 7D2 likely already have a lot of glass, but the same could be said at the launch of the 5D3 and that had a decent lens kit option...)

I think it could make a lot of sense.  Here's why.

First, I think you're right that many prospective buyers would already have a lot of lenses for shooting stills, and would have little interest in either a cheap kit lens, or one of the L zoom options like the 24-70s or 24-105.  However, many of them might have relatively little interest in video and would therefore have few, if any, dedicated video-lenses (STM, wide focal range, usually).  Therefore, a higher-quality STM video lens might make sense.

This applies to me.  I have plenty of lenses for still shooting (though, the rumored Sigma 24-70/2.0 OS sounds pretty exciting if it's real), but I would be interested in, say, an 18-135STM as my video lens if the 7D replacement comes with some great video features (dual-pixel, hybrid viewfinder, good compression, resolution and windowing options, etc.).  Maybe they're even thinking of a power-zoom if this camera is going to have a lot of new video functionality.

preppyak

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Re: More EOS 7D Replacement Buzz Going Around [CR2]
« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2014, 04:02:04 PM »
I think you are right but the canon 18-200 desperately needs an update though,
the nikkors vr1 and vr2 leave it for dead
No doubt it needs an update, but, I wonder if they'd kit that with the new 7D2. I know they kitted the 18-200 with the 50D, but was it ever with the 7D?

I cant imagine they'd update the 28-135 to kit with this; that'd be an odd choice. So maybe the 17-85 or 15-85 would get an STM update?

Act444

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Re: More EOS 7D Replacement Buzz Going Around [CR2]
« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2014, 04:03:58 PM »
I take it all ranges will get an "STM" lens. They've got normal (18-55, 18-135), telephoto (55-250), and now wide-angle (10-18). Only things left are super zoom (18-200 or 18-300) and macro. Canon's 18-200 is quite old and lacks USM so I all but expect an STM update of that lens at some point. I think this would be a good time to do so.


Just to throw this out there... If Dual pixel tech is ever going to hit full frame cameras like the 5d4 or 6d2 or 4d then FF will need a compatable STM lens too.

Good point. We already have the 40, but a slow zoom is the typical deployment of such technology. These EF-S zooms so far been optically very good, and very cheap. Does anyone see an EF 28-135/3.5-5.6 IS STM on the horizon? Nikon recently refreshed their budget full frame variable aperture zoom.

This is entirely ignorance on my part as the only STM I own is the pancake, so I'll ask:

1) Do any still shooters who are shooting moving subjects use STM glass at all? 

2) Has STM focusing speed improved to catch up with USM speed? 

3) Does STM work well in Servo for moving subjects?

Please educate me, as I think my first go at STM with the pancake was not impressive on those three fronts.   That lens is a marvel, but only for static shots in my book.

Maybe more recent STM glass is better?

- A

I have used the 55-250 STM as a test for concerts and animal shooting. I haven't measured it, but to me the STM seems to work just fine, although it feels a tad slower (?) than USM (still significantly quicker than non-USM though). The one thing to keep in mind is that the focus on these STM lenses is electronic, so you can't "full-time manual focus" without power to the camera.

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Re: More EOS 7D Replacement Buzz Going Around [CR2]
« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2014, 04:03:58 PM »

HBaekked

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Re: More EOS 7D Replacement Buzz Going Around [CR2]
« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2014, 04:07:52 PM »
Most shops in Norway are now out of stock and unable do deliver the EOS 7D.

rs

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Re: More EOS 7D Replacement Buzz Going Around [CR2]
« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2014, 04:22:12 PM »

This is entirely ignorance on my part as the only STM I own is the pancake, so I'll ask:

1) Do any still shooters who are shooting moving subjects use STM glass at all? 

2) Has STM focusing speed improved to catch up with USM speed? 

3) Does STM work well in Servo for moving subjects?

Please educate me, as I think my first go at STM with the pancake was not impressive on those three fronts.   That lens is a marvel, but only for static shots in my book.

Maybe more recent STM glass is better?

- A

Yeah, the 40 is very impressive bar the focus speed.

If you take STM as a replacement for the buzzy micro motor AF on cheap lenses, it's a nice improvement (although I can only guess about speed as I've never owned one of those lenses). It also doubles up as a nice damped AF system for video, which is why it may get introduced in replacements for lower end USM lenses.

I see no reason why the attributes of STM (slow, progressive AF suitable for natural looking pull focus on video) and those of USM (snappy, near instant AF for stills) can't be combined into one lens. In the meantime, I'd very much like high end photographers lenses to carry on with the current USM tech.
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ahsanford

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Re: More EOS 7D Replacement Buzz Going Around [CR2]
« Reply #24 on: June 09, 2014, 04:24:24 PM »
I have used the 55-250 STM as a test for concerts and animal shooting. I haven't measured it, but to me the STM seems to work just fine, although it feels a tad slower (?) than USM (still significantly quicker than non-USM though). The one thing to keep in mind is that the focus on these STM lenses is electronic, so you can't "full-time manual focus" without power to the camera.

I don't want to be a lens snob, but as a still shooter with a bag full of USM glass, I only see STM as an improvement over the non-USM lenses I left behind years ago.  I have yet to hear of a single thing it does better than USM for stills.

So STM, for me, says 'for video', and as such, won't be getting any of my money.

- A

ahsanford

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Re: More EOS 7D Replacement Buzz Going Around [CR2]
« Reply #25 on: June 09, 2014, 04:26:12 PM »

Yeah, the 40 is very impressive bar the focus speed.

If you take STM as a replacement for the buzzy micro motor AF on cheap lenses, it's a nice improvement (although I can only guess about speed as I've never owned one of those lenses). It also doubles up as a nice damped AF system for video, which is why it may get introduced in replacements for lower end USM lenses.

I see no reason why the attributes of STM (slow, progressive AF suitable for natural looking pull focus on video) and those of USM (snappy, near instant AF for stills) can't be combined into one lens. In the meantime, I'd very much like high end photographers lenses to carry on with the current USM tech.

Any chance the AF drive could be USM or STM selectable by a switch?  Lightning quick for stills and smooth for video?

Or is that such a foundational lens design consideration that you can't do both?

- A

Act444

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Re: More EOS 7D Replacement Buzz Going Around [CR2]
« Reply #26 on: June 09, 2014, 04:57:16 PM »
I have used the 55-250 STM as a test for concerts and animal shooting. I haven't measured it, but to me the STM seems to work just fine, although it feels a tad slower (?) than USM (still significantly quicker than non-USM though). The one thing to keep in mind is that the focus on these STM lenses is electronic, so you can't "full-time manual focus" without power to the camera.

I don't want to be a lens snob, but as a still shooter with a bag full of USM glass, I only see STM as an improvement over the non-USM lenses I left behind years ago.  I have yet to hear of a single thing it does better than USM for stills.

So STM, for me, says 'for video', and as such, won't be getting any of my money.

- A

As a stills shooter I prefer USM. But as you said, STM is a nice improvement over the stiff, noisy AF motor it replaces. So it's good when viewed in that respect, but it is no replacement for USM (and probably why we haven't seen an "L" lens with STM at this point).

But, even with that said, I think the only times you'll notice a difference are when 1) you are tracking a moving subject in Servo (less snappy although still quick enough in most situations) and 2) when manual focusing, unless you have an electronic USM lens like the 85 1.2.

I wouldn't recommend any of the STM lenses for serious (stills) work but for everyday/travel use, I gotta say they're quite nice...pleasantly surprised. Good if you don't want to risk more expensive stuff on a trip, etc.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2014, 05:06:51 PM by Act444 »

ScottyP

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Re: More EOS 7D Replacement Buzz Going Around [CR2]
« Reply #27 on: June 09, 2014, 07:49:09 PM »

An STM lens.  Really.  That's pretty weak for what is presumably a best-in-class APS-C rig in the $2k neighborhood.  STM is fine for video, and it's also nice upgrade over the squeaky slow AF motors of the older entry level Rebel kit glass, but 7D2 still shooters would want the speed of USM, right?

Are they legitimately going after pro wildlife/sports guys with this rig or just enthusiasts who want a high burst rate?  Surely the days of kitting this with a relatively average lens are over, aren't they?  (I recognize that the people drooling over a 7D2 likely already have a lot of glass, but the same could be said at the launch of the 5D3 and that had a decent lens kit option...)

Just riffing here:  any chance Canon kits this with a really solid L lens?  I recognize that a 24-something zoom lens will be too long on the wide end for a standard zoom.  So...

Kit it with a 16-35 F/4L IS?

Kit it with a first-ever L lens in an EF-S mount?  An EF-S 15-50 F/4L IS?  An L-quality update to the 17-55 F/2.8 IS?

Kit it with the Sigma 18-35 F/1.8?
  ;D

- A

Kit it with the 17-55.  Also kit out a pair of primes like the 35 f/2 and the 135 f/2 L as a cool surprise option.  That would also make some nice white box discounts available on those primes from set-breakers. :)
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Re: More EOS 7D Replacement Buzz Going Around [CR2]
« Reply #27 on: June 09, 2014, 07:49:09 PM »

Don Haines

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Re: More EOS 7D Replacement Buzz Going Around [CR2]
« Reply #28 on: June 09, 2014, 08:19:24 PM »

An STM lens.  Really.  That's pretty weak for what is presumably a best-in-class APS-C rig in the $2k neighborhood.  STM is fine for video, and it's also nice upgrade over the squeaky slow AF motors of the older entry level Rebel kit glass, but 7D2 still shooters would want the speed of USM, right?

Are they legitimately going after pro wildlife/sports guys with this rig or just enthusiasts who want a high burst rate?  Surely the days of kitting this with a relatively average lens are over, aren't they?  (I recognize that the people drooling over a 7D2 likely already have a lot of glass, but the same could be said at the launch of the 5D3 and that had a decent lens kit option...)

Just riffing here:  any chance Canon kits this with a really solid L lens?  I recognize that a 24-something zoom lens will be too long on the wide end for a standard zoom.  So...

Kit it with a 16-35 F/4L IS?

Kit it with a first-ever L lens in an EF-S mount?  An EF-S 15-50 F/4L IS?  An L-quality update to the 17-55 F/2.8 IS?

Kit it with the Sigma 18-35 F/1.8?
  ;D

- A

Kit it with the 17-55.  Also kit out a pair of primes like the 35 f/2 and the 135 f/2 L as a cool surprise option.  That would also make some nice white box discounts available on those primes from set-breakers. :)

Now that's a great combo!
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eml58

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Re: More EOS 7D Replacement Buzz Going Around [CR2]
« Reply #29 on: June 09, 2014, 09:08:37 PM »
I think this is not a relevant post. Why would CR post this? It is not saying anything new.

But I guess Canon is keeping its secrets very well guarded.

Yeah, sort of like a regurgitated regurgitated rumour, like the "Great White Hope" in Pro Boxing, crew of the Mary Celeste, things are probably slow at CR, so let's start anoooooooother thread on the fabled 7DMK II.

Although I'm unlikely to buy it should it ever make it to Market, I'de realllllly like to see it done & dusted & all those that want one, get one, and start Posting in a "Images from the 7DMK II" thread, instead of endless threads re comments on "what about" "what if" "when ?" "why ???????"

And then be Happy !!

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Re: More EOS 7D Replacement Buzz Going Around [CR2]
« Reply #29 on: June 09, 2014, 09:08:37 PM »