December 20, 2014, 10:31:35 PM

Author Topic: Sony A77II  (Read 2599 times)

Rienzphotoz

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Sony A77II
« on: June 09, 2014, 04:01:33 PM »
Interesting video on Sony's new "Lock-on AF: Expand Flexible Spot"
Sony a77 Mark II 12fps And Lock-On Autofocus
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Sony A77II
« on: June 09, 2014, 04:01:33 PM »

canonvoir

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Re: Sony A77II
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2014, 07:25:55 PM »
I'm not sure WTF Canon and Nikon are doing but Sony is innovating to the point I am becoming VERY tempted to completely jump ship.

An A77ii and A6000 look really good and I could afford to purchase a new body every year.
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jrista

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Re: Sony A77II
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2014, 07:39:28 PM »
I'm not sure WTF Canon and Nikon are doing but Sony is innovating to the point I am becoming VERY tempted to completely jump ship.

An A77ii and A6000 look really good and I could afford to purchase a new body every year.

Don't forget that Sony uses a lossy "raw" file format. Their technology is good, but currently they are gimping it with a crappy image file format (which, given that it is lossy compressed, cannot legitimately be called "raw").

canonvoir

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Re: Sony A77II
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2014, 07:47:55 PM »
Excellent point. The largest part of my work is sports. While I use to shoot all RAW, sports will convert you to jpg real fast for those moments.

I'm doing nothing at the moment but waiting for announcements from Sony regarding successors to the A6000 and rX10. I may jump in with my big toe.
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m

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Re: Sony A77II
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2014, 07:57:09 PM »
I'm not sure what I should take out of this video or if I understand it.

In the first half it shows the possibility to automatically change active focusing points according to the movement of the subject.
That's sound interesting indeed.

The second half seems to have the goal of convincing me that any other AF technique is useless in this situation.
The argument is that the focus point fails to "catch" the subject.
However, I don't see him pointing that focus point at a subject.
It's moving around the field and it doesn't come to me as a surprise that it doesn't focus at anything particular if you don't point it at anything particular.

Furthermore, the first demonstration of the tracking AF point is initiated by focusing with exactly that same AF point.
So all the arguments he rises in the video against a single AF point still hold true against the tracking AF, as it needs an initial "catch" to get started.
If the red player was slightly out of the AF point when he half-pressed to focus, it would have locked onto the background as it did later in the video. The tracking AF point would be of no use in this situation as it's purpose is to keep something in focus, not get it there in the first place.

That's at least my impression. Please somebody explain this to me.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2014, 07:59:35 PM by m »

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Sony A77II
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2014, 08:20:26 PM »
It seems to me to do exactly what my 5D MK III does, I don't see the point in claiming this is new, except to Sony maybe.

That's how tracking works, it hands off to other focus points as the subject moves, and has a setting to prevent a subject crossing the main subject from grabbing the focus.

What am I missing that other camera makers have not had for a long time?


canonvoir

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Re: Sony A77II
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2014, 08:45:11 PM »
Once you use the Flex point to lock on to a moving subject, you no longer have to keep that focus point on the subject. The flex point passes the focus points off to other focus points across the EVF. You can let the subject move across the FOV and that subject stays in focus. The Flex point locks focus when depressing the shutter button half way. Whatever you pressed the shutter button halfway down on it stays locked on until it exits the screen or it 

This is not the end all be all feature. No, it is not like a 5Diii or 1DX, I have both and can attest to this.

This is far more sophisticated and it is progress by a camera manufacture. Real progress. I really hope Sony pushes Canon and Nikon to up their game, soon.

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Re: Sony A77II
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2014, 08:45:11 PM »

jrista

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Re: Sony A77II
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2014, 08:56:34 PM »
I just watched the video, and wow, what a load of crap! This is what Canon's 61pt AF system (and before that, their 45pt and 19pt AF systems) have been doing for years! This is exactly what Canon's AF systems do in all points mode...they LOCK onto a subject, then track that subject. With the 5D III and 1D X, the AF system is also very highly configurable, and comes with several preconfigured AF modes for different kinds of subject motion, as well as full custom configurability. (You can even assign different AF modes to different custom user dial modes for quick and easy access.)

Canon's system allows you to do full subject tracking in all points mode, but also has several zone modes (where instead of using all AF points, it will just use a selected zone of AF points that you can move around the entire grid), as well as expansion modes (where it will let you pick a primary AF point, and then utilize either the four or eight surrounding points to assist). Canon's tracking is also better than what was demonstrated in the video...the reviewer was trying to say that the camera did not lose focus on the guy in red, but it WAS losing focus...because by the end of the sequence, both the red and black guys who were crossing paths were OOF. Canon has a configurable tracking "switch rate"...it will try to keep focus on it's previously tracked subject (using a hysteresis of the previous AF frames) for as long as you configure it, then switch to a closer subject. You can configure this tracking switch rate from very slow through very fast. Canon wouldn't have lost focus on the red player at all, period.

Another thing about Canon's AF system, especially on the 1D X, it would NEVER lose the subject's face. In the video, the Sony was focused on the guys chest and knees most of the time, but no one want's a knee in focus and the face slightly out of focus. The 1D X ties the meter and AF system together via a dedicated processor that can do face recognition (which, actually, works with birds and dogs as well, possibly other wildlife. ;)) Once the face is identified, Canon can maintain the AF lock on the same subject, and on his face, the whole entire time.

So, I'm sorry, but the reviewer in this video is full of crap when he says this kind of AF system has never been done before. MASSIVE LOAD OF BULL SH*T!!

jrista

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Re: Sony A77II
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2014, 09:01:07 PM »
Once you use the Flex point to lock on to a moving subject, you no longer have to keep that focus point on the subject. The flex point passes the focus points off to other focus points across the EVF. You can let the subject move across the FOV and that subject stays in focus. The Flex point locks focus when depressing the shutter button half way. Whatever you pressed the shutter button halfway down on it stays locked on until it exits the screen or it 

This is not the end all be all feature. No, it is not like a 5Diii or 1DX, I have both and can attest to this.

This is far more sophisticated and it is progress by a camera manufacture. Real progress. I really hope Sony pushes Canon and Nikon to up their game, soon.

What your describing is exactly how Canon's 61pt AF system works in all points mode. It does EXACTLY the same thing...it will use whatever focus points, out of the entire grid, to keep the subject it originally locked onto and is now tracking, in focus.

I also own the 5D III...that's exactly how it works for me. So either you are not using your 1D X and 5D III correctly, or your just not using the right AF mode on them.

Sony's flex point is no more sophisticated than what Canon introduced several years ago. For that matter, Nikon has been doing this for even longer! And Nikon's AF system, which is also tied into it's high res RGB metering sensor, has a large library of reference images that it uses to identify what kind of subject your tracking (which supposedly gives it cues as to subject behavior...however it still doesn't seem to work as well as Canon's 61pt AF system in practice...both the D800 and D4 these days don't perform quite as well as the 1D X in sports and other high action shooting based on reviews.)

canonvoir

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Re: Sony A77II
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2014, 09:11:44 PM »
Maybe I am misunderstanding the Sony benefit but with one in my hand it works much better and faster than my 1DX.

I use Case 5 mostly and if someone gets in the way long enough, it switches to the person in-between. This was not the case with the a6000. That also means you have to maintain your focus point on the subject, this is not the case with the Sony. It passes it off from one point to another. It literally moves the focus points as you track from one side of the EVF to the other side if you get behind or lost tracking your subject. If my 1DX does that, I am completely out of the loop.
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eml58

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Re: Sony A77II
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2014, 09:17:32 PM »
So, I'm sorry, but the reviewer in this video is full of crap when he says this kind of AF system has never been done before. MASSIVE LOAD OF BULL SH*T!!

Totally Agree, it's been done.

But jrista, you need to stop holding back, just say what you really mean  :D
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Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Sony A77II
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2014, 09:18:42 PM »
Maybe I am misunderstanding the Sony benefit but with one in my hand it works much better and faster than my 1DX.

I use Case 5 mostly and if someone gets in the way long enough, it switches to the person in-between. This was not the case with the a6000. That also means you have to maintain your focus point on the subject, this is not the case with the Sony. It passes it off from one point to another. It literally moves the focus points as you track from one side of the EVF to the other side if you get behind or lost tracking your subject. If my 1DX does that, I am completely out of the loop.

Case 5 is just a quick pick, you can tweak the timing of all the events.  Even my G1X picks and sticks to a subject as it moves around the screen.  You are describing old technology, or there is something new that was not clearly described.

jrista

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Re: Sony A77II
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2014, 09:38:13 PM »
Maybe I am misunderstanding the Sony benefit but with one in my hand it works much better and faster than my 1DX.

I use Case 5 mostly and if someone gets in the way long enough, it switches to the person in-between. This was not the case with the a6000. That also means you have to maintain your focus point on the subject, this is not the case with the Sony. It passes it off from one point to another. It literally moves the focus points as you track from one side of the EVF to the other side if you get behind or lost tracking your subject. If my 1DX does that, I am completely out of the loop.

If you shoot sports, Case 5 is probably not the best option. That one uses a medium tracking switch rate (the "Tracking Sensitivity" setting), so it's designed to jump shortly after a closer subject moves into the frame. Case 5 and 6 are what I use for bird photography. Birds can and do erratically change direction on a dime...it isn't quite that way with sports.

You want to be using Case 2 if you don't want the camera to switch subjects once it's tracking, as that uses -1 for the Tracking Sensitivity setting. You can edit it and put it to -2 if you want, then it will really stick to a subject, even if multiple other potential subjects pass in front of or near to your tracked subject.

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Re: Sony A77II
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2014, 09:38:13 PM »

canonvoir

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Re: Sony A77II
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2014, 09:54:48 PM »
Love the responses. Even the more energetic ones. ;-)

I have a football assignment coming up this Friday or Saturday (I think). I will switch to Case 2 and see what happens. Anything that makes this better for me I am all for it. For high school I carry my 1DX and 300 2.8 and that is it. I tried my M with 22 as a nice second body but it just to slow shooting sideline photos. I swear a GoPro on a stick with remote would be better.

I will report back. In  the mean time, I am going to purchase a Sony camera and use it for sideline wide angle stuff. I know the RX10 won't suffice for action but the a6000 should. Plus, it is light and id definitely easier taking video (I can get 60 fps at 1080 (I am sure someone will correct that statement if I am wrong. ha!)).

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canonvoir

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Re: Sony A77II
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2014, 10:16:02 PM »
But we are all clear on my 1DX I have to keep my focus point on the subject I am tracking where the A77ii or A6000 I do not?
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Re: Sony A77II
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2014, 10:16:02 PM »