December 20, 2014, 06:36:24 AM

Author Topic: Sony A7s good at up to ISO 12,800 .. but only 12MP  (Read 5547 times)

Marsu42

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Re: Sony A7s good at up to ISO 12,800 .. but only 12MP
« Reply #30 on: June 17, 2014, 03:31:11 AM »
If I was a true Canon fan like you guys are, I would be happy and appreciate what Sony is doing

I am happy - if it wasn't for Sony Nikon, there would be no 6d at all, the @€4000 5d3 would have the 6d af system and the 1dx would be €10000. Canon marketing would have a field day with a real monopoly *shudder* :-o

However, in this case Canon is already in the market, though in another niche with their ultra-low-mp high-sensitivity surveillance cameras (with Nikon lenses :-)). Obviously they don't feel any need to change much about their dslr line though, people keep buying anyway.

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Re: Sony A7s good at up to ISO 12,800 .. but only 12MP
« Reply #30 on: June 17, 2014, 03:31:11 AM »

Synkka

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Re: Sony A7s good at up to ISO 12,800 .. but only 12MP
« Reply #31 on: June 17, 2014, 06:56:05 AM »
I think this is a technically impressive camera and a bold move my sony. I predict this will be a train wreck sales wise. Sony is lucky that across all three variations they should do ok as they clearly share a lot of components, but this particular model will not do well.

pedro

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Re: Sony A7s good at up to ISO 12,800 .. but only 12MP
« Reply #32 on: June 17, 2014, 08:19:34 AM »
I think this is a technically impressive camera and a bold move my sony. I predict this will be a train wreck sales wise. Sony is lucky that across all three variations they should do ok as they clearly share a lot of components, but this particular model will not do well.

How come that you think it's doomed to fail? I consider it a bold step ahead in relation to other competitors...especially price tag wise. They should even do it with a current DSLR type of cam. But as mirrorless cams evolve, A7s users will hold a particular outing of days to come in their hands.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2014, 08:23:18 AM by pedro »
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AvTvM

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Re: Sony A7s good at up to ISO 12,800 .. but only 12MP
« Reply #33 on: June 17, 2014, 09:02:00 AM »
A7s is doomed to fail as a video camera, since it cannot even record 4k Video without using an external device, that is not even available yet.

A7s is doomed as a stills camera, because it only offers somehwat better offer Hi-ISO performance (from 6400 upwards) in exchange for the very low resolution. It would need to be CLEARLY better ...
 
A7s is doomed, because it is a totally compromised video-stills bastard, offering less than desirable competence for either task. And due to that it is also too expensive for what it is. Compared to A7, A7R, 5D II, D800, GH4, ...
 
« Last Edit: June 17, 2014, 10:26:47 AM by AvTvM »

zlatko

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Re: Sony A7s good at up to ISO 12,800 .. but only 12MP
« Reply #34 on: June 17, 2014, 10:23:49 AM »
I am finding this forum more and more misleading in the worse fashion, lead by couple of devoted brainiacs with great ability to browse, process and serve confusing information.
It is so much like politics is scary!
Now even titles are intentionally skewed.
Internet is buzzing with reviews, positive impressions about Sony, and all we got here is bitter, sarcastic ind smart ass comments without the end in sight.
I own A7r and it is the best camera I ever own for my shooting style!

When anonymous know-it-alls declare that Sony's new camera is doomed, that pretty much assures it will be a success.  :)

msm

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Re: Sony A7s good at up to ISO 12,800 .. but only 12MP
« Reply #35 on: June 17, 2014, 03:48:35 PM »
A7s is doomed to fail as a video camera, since it cannot even record 4k Video without using an external device, that is not even available yet.

A7s is doomed as a stills camera, because it only offers somehwat better offer Hi-ISO performance (from 6400 upwards) in exchange for the very low resolution. It would need to be CLEARLY better ...
 
A7s is doomed, because it is a totally compromised video-stills bastard, offering less than desirable competence for either task. And due to that it is also too expensive for what it is. Compared to A7, A7R, 5D II, D800, GH4, ...

Full sensor readout will give massively improved video quality even at HD, go compare a blueray movie with the output from a for instance a Canon DSLR (except the 1DC), the DSLR looks like upscaled 720p.

Full electronic shutter, completely silent shooting.

First full frame camera to really break through the high ISO barrier since D3S, more than a full stop improved DR at ISO 12800-25600+ compared to the competition according to DXO.

I see your point, I am sure no one would ever buy this   :P.

AvTvM

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Re: Sony A7s good at up to ISO 12,800 .. but only 12MP
« Reply #36 on: June 17, 2014, 04:14:14 PM »
"Full electronic shutter" is still a mystery to me regarding A7s. Reichmann's review is very unspecific on thos but sounds more like Electronic 1st curtain only". Sony is not able or willing to provide clear cut specs either.

Personally i dont want video at all, but i want a fully electronic shutter, 0% mechanics, 0 noise, 0 vibration ... For my next stills camera. If this also means "no rolling shutter, no jello" for video, then fine. They shall use it in soecial video cams or pirely video optimized versions of my stills cam and sell me a stills-only version for less money. :-)

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Re: Sony A7s good at up to ISO 12,800 .. but only 12MP
« Reply #36 on: June 17, 2014, 04:14:14 PM »

bluegreenturtle

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Re: Sony A7s good at up to ISO 12,800 .. but only 12MP
« Reply #37 on: June 17, 2014, 05:32:32 PM »
You also know for sure when somebody says "I don't want video at all" and are commenting on a camera like this that they have no place making those comments and literally don't understand anything about why this camera *might* be really special.  This camera is extremely exciting to the video community.  Stills people, go back to wanking off to your models that you paid to take pictures of. 

If everything turns out, I plan to turn in my 5DIII for this camera, which promises to be a significant upgrade, at a lowered cost.

For my part, I don't really care if the stills function even works; I only use it for timelapses, and there's tons of ways to accomplish that. 

Don't assume that your uses are everybody's uses, or that the market that you see is the actual market. 
« Last Edit: June 17, 2014, 05:35:48 PM by bluegreenturtle »

unfocused

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Re: Sony A7s good at up to ISO 12,800 .. but only 12MP
« Reply #38 on: June 17, 2014, 06:13:23 PM »
You also know for sure when somebody says "I don't want video at all" and are commenting on a camera like this that they have no place making those comments and literally don't understand anything about why this camera *might* be really special.  This camera is extremely exciting to the video community. . .Don't assume that your uses are everybody's uses, or that the market that you see is the actual market. 

Well, you make a valid point (even it you were a little potty-mouthed about it). I certainly don't profess to know anything about video and have never claimed otherwise. If this is an ideal camera for video, so much the better.

Everyone, everywhere, has their own frame of reference based on their experience and needs.

I think this is an interesting concept that Sony is trying -- essentially interchanging sensors within the same camera body. Some people are skeptical about the likelihood of it being a successful strategy and I would fall into that category. Personally, I really don't care one way or the other, I'm just an interested observer who enjoys seeing companies compete, trying to second-guess their strategies and opining on whether or not they will be successful.

If this is an ideal video camera, great. That will only spur Nikon and Canon to more competition, which benefits all of us.
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9VIII

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Re: Sony A7s good at up to ISO 12,800 .. but only 12MP
« Reply #39 on: June 17, 2014, 09:34:08 PM »
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/sony_a7s_first_impressions.shtml

Um, your topic title is wrong (typo, I guess?)... the conclusion is "[...] the A7s to have almost a three stop advantage over the A7r" which is rather stunning and a good reason for the "the 40d had enough mp" people.

Quote
- At ISO 51,200 the A7s is quite usable with some moderate noise reduction.
– ISO 102,400 is the limit at which I would use the A7s. It needs some NR, but would be usable for non-critical applications.

That quote is highly questionable.
Whether or not it's one stop or two probably depends on what type of noise you're looking at. The A7r at 25,600 obviously has sharper details than the A7s at ISO 102,400. In sharpness I would give the A7s a 1 stop advantage. The A7r also has banding and a purple tinge though, so in one regard it's only one stop advantage, in another it would be two, but the ISO 204,800 image is just a blurry mess so a three stop advantage is right out the window.
(and it seriously looks like he fudged the ISO 12,800 picture for the A7r, since the ISO 25,600 image from the same camera has more detail, which is just not right)

What's going to be even more interesting is the Nikon D810 when it's released. Nikon did a great job with the D4s and I have a feeling we're going to be seeing some pretty clean images out of that 36MP sensor.

And then we have the recent DR debacle. I'm still quite happy putting all my eggs in the high MP basket.
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msm

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Re: Sony A7s good at up to ISO 12,800 .. but only 12MP
« Reply #40 on: June 18, 2014, 01:21:25 AM »
"Full electronic shutter" is still a mystery to me regarding A7s. Reichmann's review is very unspecific on thos but sounds more like Electronic 1st curtain only". Sony is not able or willing to provide clear cut specs either.

Personally i dont want video at all, but i want a fully electronic shutter, 0% mechanics, 0 noise, 0 vibration ... For my next stills camera. If this also means "no rolling shutter, no jello" for video, then fine. They shall use it in soecial video cams or pirely video optimized versions of my stills cam and sell me a stills-only version for less money. :-)

There are several youtube vids out demonstrating the electronic shutter, for instance:

Sony a7s Geräuschloses Auslösen Test

AvTvM

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Re: Sony A7s good at up to ISO 12,800 .. but only 12MP
« Reply #41 on: June 18, 2014, 01:42:38 AM »
I know the videos. Shutter sound seems minimal. But i have yet to see precise specs or detailed images of the shutter unit showing whether or not it is
A) a fully electronic global shutter free of any mechanical components
or
B) just a somewhat improved version of the A7 shutter with only an electronic first shutter and a mechanic second shutter.

While B is some progress over regular mechanical shutters, it is A) that i really want to get in my next camera ... The full monty, not some half-mechanical solution.

Sony's obfuscation and lack of clear specs leads me to conclude the A7S only has such a half-mechanical, quiet shutter rather than a truly electronic, SILENT and totally VIBRATION-free shutter.


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Re: Sony A7s good at up to ISO 12,800 .. but only 12MP
« Reply #42 on: June 18, 2014, 03:36:54 AM »

Synkka

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Re: Sony A7s good at up to ISO 12,800 .. but only 12MP
« Reply #43 on: June 18, 2014, 03:52:22 AM »
I think the a7s won't be successful because in general for photography the A7R is better.
It's 4k is a gimmick requiring an expensive external device.
It's low noise is impressive and hd video but the amount of users who need those features more than what they will get from the A7R will be small

Niki

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Re: Sony A7s good at up to ISO 12,800 .. but only 12MP
« Reply #44 on: June 18, 2014, 05:14:43 AM »
I think the a7s won't be successful because in general for photography the A7R is better.
It's 4k is a gimmick requiring an expensive external device.
It's low noise is impressive and hd video but the amount of users who need those features more than what they will get from the A7R will be small

+1

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Re: Sony A7s good at up to ISO 12,800 .. but only 12MP
« Reply #44 on: June 18, 2014, 05:14:43 AM »