October 01, 2014, 12:43:19 AM

Author Topic: Canon to Release Major Updates to DPP & EOS Utility  (Read 10312 times)

Marsu42

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Re: Canon to Release Major Updates to DPP & EOS Utility
« Reply #105 on: June 17, 2014, 02:45:28 PM »
rather, it's a marketing decision.

With this being very likely with Canon, I still cannot really see this as the only reason - few people will say "no, I'll get a newer camera or not the 70d" because of dpp4 or eos utility4.

Esp. with the 70d not being in the mix I believe it's a software engineering decision. They probably did real changes in the software like lens-camera profiles and tested them on the newest and most expensive cameras first. When they had more time dpp4.1 will support 70d and subsequently the other older models.

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Re: Canon to Release Major Updates to DPP & EOS Utility
« Reply #105 on: June 17, 2014, 02:45:28 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon to Release Major Updates to DPP & EOS Utility
« Reply #106 on: June 17, 2014, 02:49:57 PM »
rather, it's a marketing decision.

With this being very likely with Canon, I still cannot really see this as the only reason - few people will say "no, I'll get a newer camera or not the 70d" because of dpp4 or eos utility4.

I agree, which is why I don't get it.  I still think the technical limitation is implausible, maybe Canon has an over inflated opinion of the user base for DPP?  Sure, they can track downloads… But I expect I'm far from alone in being one who keeps DPP current, but does not use it as a RAW image editor (brand new camera where it's the sole option available notwithstanding).
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ScubaX

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Re: Canon to Release Major Updates to DPP & EOS Utility
« Reply #107 on: June 17, 2014, 02:55:49 PM »
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memoriaphoto

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Re: Canon to Release Major Updates to DPP & EOS Utility
« Reply #108 on: June 17, 2014, 03:00:08 PM »
The only reasonable explanation I can accept is that version 4.0 has very different algorithms to better render and extract details from the latest sensors. The upcoming updated 3.x will include the new controls, GUI etc and support the older models.

Otherwise, they are seriously SERIOUSLY on thin ice.
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awinphoto

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Re: Canon to Release Major Updates to DPP & EOS Utility
« Reply #109 on: June 17, 2014, 03:24:51 PM »
here is a download link
http://support-au.canon.com.au/contents/AU/EN/0200372802.html

all you need is your camera serial number written at the bottom next to the battery slot (in my case 5D3)

any chance there's a link to download for mac?

Here you are. http://support-hk.canon-asia.com/P/search?category=Digital+Cameras&series=EOS&model=EOS+5D+Mark+III&menu=download&filter=0

Thanks... makes me enter a serial number just to download it... hope this is good =)
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awinphoto

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Re: Canon to Release Major Updates to DPP & EOS Utility
« Reply #110 on: June 17, 2014, 03:58:55 PM »
Well i downloaded it and played around with it... here are my thoughts... For giggles, i tried using raw and jpegs from an older (unsupported camera)...  RAWs the software, at least for now, is not able to do squat with... no edits, no conversions, nothing.  Jpegs however opened just fine with some caveats...  jpegs had full access to things like sharpness, auto light optimizer, curves, color adjustments, etc... some "advanced" options such as contrast, shadow, highlight, etc was not available.  Overall performance from supported cameras and files seem to be rather impressive...  I reserve the right to change my mind once i play with it some more with some of my other cameras but lots of functions are more intuitive and seamless than the clunky prior versions.  Everything from the Noise removal to dust removal are more streamlined... They even add things like cropping and so forth to make it more functional.  I will keep you updated later.
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JRPhotos

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Re: Canon to Release Major Updates to DPP & EOS Utility
« Reply #111 on: June 17, 2014, 04:01:16 PM »
Why are people so ready to believe in conspiracies?

Look at the facts. The software only supports SOME FF cameras. It does not support Rebels, the 60D, or the 70D, or the 7D, or the 5DII.... those cameras representing the vast majority of Canon cameras sold. The software is ONLY downloadable from Hong Kong..... not U.S... not Europe.... Not Canada.. not Australia... only Hong Kong.

Canon is not going to make their software only usable on one percent of their cameras. What you are looking at is an early version of the software. When the real version is ready it will support everything and it will be available everywhere.

The fact is that Canon Japan (as in, Corporate HQ) issued a press release stating, "Compatible models ※ · · · EOS-1D C, EOS-1D X, EOS 5D Mark III, EOS 6D."
and it's most likely an early release....
Those with the most expensive cameras get to use it first.... the rest of the user base to follow later. My bet is that when the 7D2 is announced, they will release version 4.1 (or whatever) that supports the rest of the bodies.

The 'real version' will launch everywhere by the end of June, and it will support only current FF cameras.  I don't understand the rationale, but the underlying code in DPP is likely not very different (certainly the manipulations are mostly the same in the new GUI).  Therefore, the lack of support in DPP v4 for older and non-FF bodies is almost certainly not a technical limitation – rather, it's a marketing decision.
That makes sense but you would think that they would consider most people that have FF or the expensive bodies at one point had the 7D, 40D, etc and could at some point need to edit the CR2 files they produced. :|

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Re: Canon to Release Major Updates to DPP & EOS Utility
« Reply #111 on: June 17, 2014, 04:01:16 PM »

wtlloyd

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Re: Canon to Release Major Updates to DPP & EOS Utility
« Reply #112 on: June 17, 2014, 04:14:17 PM »
So it's like a beta release. Looking for a slow rollout. Going slow.
Seems very responsible.
Probably a lot of work refining individual camera profiles, but they are devoted to their customers and wanted to release as soon as possible.

Why do reasons always have to be bad?

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JRPhotos

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Re: Canon to Release Major Updates to DPP & EOS Utility
« Reply #113 on: June 17, 2014, 04:25:46 PM »
I emailed Canon support about this, and this is their response:
-----------------
Thank you for contacting Canon product support regarding your EOS 7D. I understand you have question regarding the New Digital Photo Professional 4. I am happy to assist you.

You are correct. DPP version 4.0 will only support the EOS-1D C, EOS-1D X, EOS 5D Mark III, and EOS 6D. Yes, there are plans for supporting already-released cameras with RAW capability. Support is already planned for [EOS 70D] and [EOS REBEL T5] with a release goal of the 3rd quarter of 2015. For other already-released cameras with RAW capability, current planning is to provide information (via Web site/FAQ/etc.) once a specific release period has been confirmed. In the meantime DPP version 3 is still being supported and can be installed on the same computer as DPP 4.

Please let us know if we can be of any further assistance with your EOS 7D. Thank you for choosing Canon.

Sincerely,

awinphoto

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Re: Canon to Release Major Updates to DPP & EOS Utility
« Reply #114 on: June 17, 2014, 04:37:10 PM »
I emailed Canon support about this, and this is their response:
-----------------
Thank you for contacting Canon product support regarding your EOS 7D. I understand you have question regarding the New Digital Photo Professional 4. I am happy to assist you.

You are correct. DPP version 4.0 will only support the EOS-1D C, EOS-1D X, EOS 5D Mark III, and EOS 6D. Yes, there are plans for supporting already-released cameras with RAW capability. Support is already planned for [EOS 70D] and [EOS REBEL T5] with a release goal of the 3rd quarter of 2015. For other already-released cameras with RAW capability, current planning is to provide information (via Web site/FAQ/etc.) once a specific release period has been confirmed. In the meantime DPP version 3 is still being supported and can be installed on the same computer as DPP 4.

Please let us know if we can be of any further assistance with your EOS 7D. Thank you for choosing Canon.

Sincerely,

Third quarter 2015?  Really?  Glad to see they are paying overtime to these tech guys to get this done quickly
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memoriaphoto

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Re: Canon to Release Major Updates to DPP & EOS Utility
« Reply #115 on: June 17, 2014, 04:44:44 PM »
Clearly they must have meant 2014

Anyway...installed it and played around a bit with my 6D files. Images seem to sharpen up easier and with a tad more details. However I still dislike the contrast slider, I thought that was one of the improvements... why do they insist on having that 1,2,3 step-contrast slider thing? I hate it...

Also, the HSL has a response that I am not quite familiar with. All in all...so far not very impressed but need much more testing. But I have a feeling I will return to the mothership after all...

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Marsu42

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Re: Canon to Release Major Updates to DPP & EOS Utility
« Reply #116 on: June 17, 2014, 05:19:24 PM »
with a release goal of the 3rd quarter of 2015

*snigger* now that's a big company ship for you, that even beats the "5d3 bugfix release in half a year" gap :-p

scottburgess

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Re: Canon to Release Major Updates to DPP & EOS Utility
« Reply #117 on: June 17, 2014, 07:01:29 PM »
The only reasonable explanation I can accept is that version 4.0 has very different algorithms to better render and extract details from the latest sensors. The upcoming updated 3.x will include the new controls, GUI etc and support the older models.

Otherwise, they are seriously SERIOUSLY on thin ice.

I find it helpful when thinking about these things to put myself into the shoes of other users as well as Canon's profit-making machine.

I think a reasonable explanation here is that changes in the file formats along with the move to 64-bit hardware are driving this.  Future amateur cameras will likely support the new formats.  That the 70D doesn't may be an artifact of corporate bureaucratic pathways, processor hardware selected, or perhaps the software was developed off of a previous camera to lower costs; I couldn't say, but there are many possibilities.  A converter module to support some of the older CR2 formats may or may not be in the works, but is probably a low priority.  From Canon's point of view, folks with older amateur cameras have a DPP version that works for them.

I currently have only minimal use for DPP.  What I would like to see is the migration of EU into DPP, with advanced tethered control of the camera in DPP--something not likely to be available with Lightroom or Photoshop.  If I can take a shot tethered, and process out aberrations while doing so, then catalog and post-process with Adobe tools, I'd be a fairly happy camper.  This makes better sense to me as it gives desirable value added to the products and does so within a common advanced amateur/professional workflow (and those are the people who care and also drive profits).  If I were in Canon's shoes, now that the move to 64-bit hardware is complete I would be studying Phase One's Capture One software for popular features to swipe for version 4.1.  I would also be adding further lens profiles.

I don't think Canon is on any "thin ice" here.  As noted previously, there was a nice update to the older software released this month, and that version can be used alongside the 4.0.00 version.  DPP is a poor cataloging/ image management tool compared to Lightroom, and totally inadequate for post-processing compared to Photoshop with its innumerable plugins.  Most pros and advanced amateurs build a workflow around those or some less costly alternatives (eg: Bridge subbed for Lightroom for pure Photoshop 5-6 owners, or perhaps Google's storage and tools or ACDsee's Pro and Photo Editor for those unable to afford the Adobe Clod [sic]). 

Add in that Canon is very good at profiling their customers and probably realizes that someone owning a $2000-4000 camera also probably has 64-bit computer hardware, and you can see where they're coming from.  There might be a subset of Rebel users still eking life out on an older 32-bit machine, and those couldn't use version 4.0.00 anyway.  My old XTi is 10Mp and uses an old file format--that hardware is only 7 years old, but I really don't expect Canon to write new-fangled software for it since I am an advanced amateur who can move on to a better camera.  If I was a point-and-shooter using my Rebel just to shoot Christmas with the kids I might not care that I couldn't use the newest DPP.  Throw those subsets together, and I don't believe that the vast majority of the user base will complain at all.




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Re: Canon to Release Major Updates to DPP & EOS Utility
« Reply #117 on: June 17, 2014, 07:01:29 PM »

shunsai

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Re: Canon to Release Major Updates to DPP & EOS Utility
« Reply #118 on: June 17, 2014, 07:26:12 PM »
The only reasonable explanation I can accept is that version 4.0 has very different algorithms to better render and extract details from the latest sensors. The upcoming updated 3.x will include the new controls, GUI etc and support the older models.

Otherwise, they are seriously SERIOUSLY on thin ice.

I find it helpful when thinking about these things to put myself into the shoes of other users as well as Canon's profit-making machine.

I currently have only minimal use for DPP.  What I would like to see is the migration of EU into DPP, with advanced tethered control of the camera in DPP--something not likely to be available with Lightroom or Photoshop.  If I can take a shot tethered, and process out aberrations while doing so, then catalog and post-process with Adobe tools, I'd be a fairly happy camper.  This makes better sense to me as it gives desirable value added to the products and does so within a common advanced amateur/professional workflow (and those are the people who care and also drive profits).  If I were in Canon's shoes, now that the move to 64-bit hardware is complete I would be studying Phase One's Capture One software for popular features to swipe for version 4.1.  I would also be adding further lens profiles.

I don't think Canon is on any "thin ice" here.  As noted previously, there was a nice update to the older software released this month, and that version can be used alongside the 4.0.00 version.  DPP is a poor cataloging/ image management tool compared to Lightroom, and totally inadequate for post-processing compared to Photoshop with its innumerable plugins.  Most pros and advanced amateurs build a workflow around those or some less costly alternatives (eg: Bridge subbed for Lightroom for pure Photoshop 5-6 owners, or perhaps Google's storage and tools or ACDsee's Pro and Photo Editor for those unable to afford the Adobe Clod [sic]). 

Add in that Canon is very good at profiling their customers and probably realizes that someone owning a $2000-4000 camera also probably has 64-bit computer hardware, and you can see where they're coming from.  There might be a subset of Rebel users still eking life out on an older 32-bit machine, and those couldn't use version 4.0.00 anyway.  My old XTi is 10Mp and uses an old file format--that hardware is only 7 years old, but I really don't expect Canon to write new-fangled software for it since I am an advanced amateur who can move on to a better camera.  If I was a point-and-shooter using my Rebel just to shoot Christmas with the kids I might not care that I couldn't use the newest DPP.  Throw those subsets together, and I don't believe that the vast majority of the user base will complain at all.

I may be mistaken as I'm away from my home pc at the moment, but if I recall, I think I saw something about tethering in DPP 4.0.

I also saw (at least in the thumbnail customization options) where you could choose to display or not CR2, CRW, JPG, TIFF, and movie files. I dunno if this is a hint that this one has some form of video editing capability, but the fact that you can view thumbnails of RAWs from older models seems to indicate that the limited file-format editing capability it is not a limitation of the file format itself.

I hope you're wrong in that I hope more people complain. I too sent a pretty testy letter to Canon support as soon as I discovered I DPP 4.0 wouldn't read my RAWs. Unlike many users here, DPP is the main and generally only software I use to edit my photos. I have Photoshop, but I like that I can keep my RAW files in the proprietary Canon file format and simply save my edits by means of a recipe file. I don't want to convert to DNG and use up more space than necessary.

DPP never had the best workflow and the tools were pretty rudimentary, but for most of my photos it sufficed. If I needed to do heavy lifting, in special cases I would import it into Photoshop. For years and through several different EOS models with different RAW formats, I have used DPP. For a long time I've been hoping for an more than incremental upgrade. It looks like they finally did it, but they decided that they would rather divide their customer base instead of unite.

scottburgess

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Re: Canon to Release Major Updates to DPP & EOS Utility
« Reply #119 on: June 17, 2014, 09:20:59 PM »
I may be mistaken as I'm away from my home pc at the moment, but if I recall, I think I saw something about tethering in DPP 4.0.

Yeah, I saw that too.  Version 3.x used EOS Utility to give that functionality, and I wasn't clear from the manual if that was the same process for Version 4.0.00.  The photos in the manual are suggestive that the EU capabilities might be integrated, but I can't be sure.  I really see no reason for two separate software packages.  Capture One arguably does more than both EU and DPP together.

I do feel for ya...  I wouldn't be happy either if DPP was my main or only tool and my older files weren't supported.  But I don't think that the percentages are in your favor on this one. 

This does make me wonder what it would take in labor to get support for more camera bodies, lenses, etc... and whether a company could get help from the user community.  Plenty of us are in software, and many users would be very happy to create a lens profile to support their uncommon/outdated lens.  I think it would be cool to have community-constructed profiles for old FD glass, third-party lenses, etc... and be able to import them into DPP.


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Re: Canon to Release Major Updates to DPP & EOS Utility
« Reply #119 on: June 17, 2014, 09:20:59 PM »