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Author Topic: Canon to Release Major Updates to DPP & EOS Utility  (Read 34246 times)

JRPhotos

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Re: Canon to Release Major Updates to DPP & EOS Utility
« Reply #105 on: June 17, 2014, 04:25:46 PM »
I emailed Canon support about this, and this is their response:
-----------------
Thank you for contacting Canon product support regarding your EOS 7D. I understand you have question regarding the New Digital Photo Professional 4. I am happy to assist you.

You are correct. DPP version 4.0 will only support the EOS-1D C, EOS-1D X, EOS 5D Mark III, and EOS 6D. Yes, there are plans for supporting already-released cameras with RAW capability. Support is already planned for [EOS 70D] and [EOS REBEL T5] with a release goal of the 3rd quarter of 2015. For other already-released cameras with RAW capability, current planning is to provide information (via Web site/FAQ/etc.) once a specific release period has been confirmed. In the meantime DPP version 3 is still being supported and can be installed on the same computer as DPP 4.

Please let us know if we can be of any further assistance with your EOS 7D. Thank you for choosing Canon.

Sincerely,

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Re: Canon to Release Major Updates to DPP & EOS Utility
« Reply #105 on: June 17, 2014, 04:25:46 PM »

awinphoto

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Re: Canon to Release Major Updates to DPP & EOS Utility
« Reply #106 on: June 17, 2014, 04:37:10 PM »
I emailed Canon support about this, and this is their response:
-----------------
Thank you for contacting Canon product support regarding your EOS 7D. I understand you have question regarding the New Digital Photo Professional 4. I am happy to assist you.

You are correct. DPP version 4.0 will only support the EOS-1D C, EOS-1D X, EOS 5D Mark III, and EOS 6D. Yes, there are plans for supporting already-released cameras with RAW capability. Support is already planned for [EOS 70D] and [EOS REBEL T5] with a release goal of the 3rd quarter of 2015. For other already-released cameras with RAW capability, current planning is to provide information (via Web site/FAQ/etc.) once a specific release period has been confirmed. In the meantime DPP version 3 is still being supported and can be installed on the same computer as DPP 4.

Please let us know if we can be of any further assistance with your EOS 7D. Thank you for choosing Canon.

Sincerely,

Third quarter 2015?  Really?  Glad to see they are paying overtime to these tech guys to get this done quickly
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memoriaphoto

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Re: Canon to Release Major Updates to DPP & EOS Utility
« Reply #107 on: June 17, 2014, 04:44:44 PM »
Clearly they must have meant 2014

Anyway...installed it and played around a bit with my 6D files. Images seem to sharpen up easier and with a tad more details. However I still dislike the contrast slider, I thought that was one of the improvements... why do they insist on having that 1,2,3 step-contrast slider thing? I hate it...

Also, the HSL has a response that I am not quite familiar with. All in all...so far not very impressed but need much more testing. But I have a feeling I will return to the mothership after all...

"Lightroom, please listen...I was not thinking clearly. I got all confused...it meant nothing to me...and I was thinking about you the whole time..."
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Marsu42

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Re: Canon to Release Major Updates to DPP & EOS Utility
« Reply #108 on: June 17, 2014, 05:19:24 PM »
with a release goal of the 3rd quarter of 2015

*snigger* now that's a big company ship for you, that even beats the "5d3 bugfix release in half a year" gap :-p

scottburgess

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Re: Canon to Release Major Updates to DPP & EOS Utility
« Reply #109 on: June 17, 2014, 07:01:29 PM »
The only reasonable explanation I can accept is that version 4.0 has very different algorithms to better render and extract details from the latest sensors. The upcoming updated 3.x will include the new controls, GUI etc and support the older models.

Otherwise, they are seriously SERIOUSLY on thin ice.

I find it helpful when thinking about these things to put myself into the shoes of other users as well as Canon's profit-making machine.

I think a reasonable explanation here is that changes in the file formats along with the move to 64-bit hardware are driving this.  Future amateur cameras will likely support the new formats.  That the 70D doesn't may be an artifact of corporate bureaucratic pathways, processor hardware selected, or perhaps the software was developed off of a previous camera to lower costs; I couldn't say, but there are many possibilities.  A converter module to support some of the older CR2 formats may or may not be in the works, but is probably a low priority.  From Canon's point of view, folks with older amateur cameras have a DPP version that works for them.

I currently have only minimal use for DPP.  What I would like to see is the migration of EU into DPP, with advanced tethered control of the camera in DPP--something not likely to be available with Lightroom or Photoshop.  If I can take a shot tethered, and process out aberrations while doing so, then catalog and post-process with Adobe tools, I'd be a fairly happy camper.  This makes better sense to me as it gives desirable value added to the products and does so within a common advanced amateur/professional workflow (and those are the people who care and also drive profits).  If I were in Canon's shoes, now that the move to 64-bit hardware is complete I would be studying Phase One's Capture One software for popular features to swipe for version 4.1.  I would also be adding further lens profiles.

I don't think Canon is on any "thin ice" here.  As noted previously, there was a nice update to the older software released this month, and that version can be used alongside the 4.0.00 version.  DPP is a poor cataloging/ image management tool compared to Lightroom, and totally inadequate for post-processing compared to Photoshop with its innumerable plugins.  Most pros and advanced amateurs build a workflow around those or some less costly alternatives (eg: Bridge subbed for Lightroom for pure Photoshop 5-6 owners, or perhaps Google's storage and tools or ACDsee's Pro and Photo Editor for those unable to afford the Adobe Clod [sic]). 

Add in that Canon is very good at profiling their customers and probably realizes that someone owning a $2000-4000 camera also probably has 64-bit computer hardware, and you can see where they're coming from.  There might be a subset of Rebel users still eking life out on an older 32-bit machine, and those couldn't use version 4.0.00 anyway.  My old XTi is 10Mp and uses an old file format--that hardware is only 7 years old, but I really don't expect Canon to write new-fangled software for it since I am an advanced amateur who can move on to a better camera.  If I was a point-and-shooter using my Rebel just to shoot Christmas with the kids I might not care that I couldn't use the newest DPP.  Throw those subsets together, and I don't believe that the vast majority of the user base will complain at all.




shunsai

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Re: Canon to Release Major Updates to DPP & EOS Utility
« Reply #110 on: June 17, 2014, 07:26:12 PM »
The only reasonable explanation I can accept is that version 4.0 has very different algorithms to better render and extract details from the latest sensors. The upcoming updated 3.x will include the new controls, GUI etc and support the older models.

Otherwise, they are seriously SERIOUSLY on thin ice.

I find it helpful when thinking about these things to put myself into the shoes of other users as well as Canon's profit-making machine.

I currently have only minimal use for DPP.  What I would like to see is the migration of EU into DPP, with advanced tethered control of the camera in DPP--something not likely to be available with Lightroom or Photoshop.  If I can take a shot tethered, and process out aberrations while doing so, then catalog and post-process with Adobe tools, I'd be a fairly happy camper.  This makes better sense to me as it gives desirable value added to the products and does so within a common advanced amateur/professional workflow (and those are the people who care and also drive profits).  If I were in Canon's shoes, now that the move to 64-bit hardware is complete I would be studying Phase One's Capture One software for popular features to swipe for version 4.1.  I would also be adding further lens profiles.

I don't think Canon is on any "thin ice" here.  As noted previously, there was a nice update to the older software released this month, and that version can be used alongside the 4.0.00 version.  DPP is a poor cataloging/ image management tool compared to Lightroom, and totally inadequate for post-processing compared to Photoshop with its innumerable plugins.  Most pros and advanced amateurs build a workflow around those or some less costly alternatives (eg: Bridge subbed for Lightroom for pure Photoshop 5-6 owners, or perhaps Google's storage and tools or ACDsee's Pro and Photo Editor for those unable to afford the Adobe Clod [sic]). 

Add in that Canon is very good at profiling their customers and probably realizes that someone owning a $2000-4000 camera also probably has 64-bit computer hardware, and you can see where they're coming from.  There might be a subset of Rebel users still eking life out on an older 32-bit machine, and those couldn't use version 4.0.00 anyway.  My old XTi is 10Mp and uses an old file format--that hardware is only 7 years old, but I really don't expect Canon to write new-fangled software for it since I am an advanced amateur who can move on to a better camera.  If I was a point-and-shooter using my Rebel just to shoot Christmas with the kids I might not care that I couldn't use the newest DPP.  Throw those subsets together, and I don't believe that the vast majority of the user base will complain at all.

I may be mistaken as I'm away from my home pc at the moment, but if I recall, I think I saw something about tethering in DPP 4.0.

I also saw (at least in the thumbnail customization options) where you could choose to display or not CR2, CRW, JPG, TIFF, and movie files. I dunno if this is a hint that this one has some form of video editing capability, but the fact that you can view thumbnails of RAWs from older models seems to indicate that the limited file-format editing capability it is not a limitation of the file format itself.

I hope you're wrong in that I hope more people complain. I too sent a pretty testy letter to Canon support as soon as I discovered I DPP 4.0 wouldn't read my RAWs. Unlike many users here, DPP is the main and generally only software I use to edit my photos. I have Photoshop, but I like that I can keep my RAW files in the proprietary Canon file format and simply save my edits by means of a recipe file. I don't want to convert to DNG and use up more space than necessary.

DPP never had the best workflow and the tools were pretty rudimentary, but for most of my photos it sufficed. If I needed to do heavy lifting, in special cases I would import it into Photoshop. For years and through several different EOS models with different RAW formats, I have used DPP. For a long time I've been hoping for an more than incremental upgrade. It looks like they finally did it, but they decided that they would rather divide their customer base instead of unite.

scottburgess

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Re: Canon to Release Major Updates to DPP & EOS Utility
« Reply #111 on: June 17, 2014, 09:20:59 PM »
I may be mistaken as I'm away from my home pc at the moment, but if I recall, I think I saw something about tethering in DPP 4.0.

Yeah, I saw that too.  Version 3.x used EOS Utility to give that functionality, and I wasn't clear from the manual if that was the same process for Version 4.0.00.  The photos in the manual are suggestive that the EU capabilities might be integrated, but I can't be sure.  I really see no reason for two separate software packages.  Capture One arguably does more than both EU and DPP together.

I do feel for ya...  I wouldn't be happy either if DPP was my main or only tool and my older files weren't supported.  But I don't think that the percentages are in your favor on this one. 

This does make me wonder what it would take in labor to get support for more camera bodies, lenses, etc... and whether a company could get help from the user community.  Plenty of us are in software, and many users would be very happy to create a lens profile to support their uncommon/outdated lens.  I think it would be cool to have community-constructed profiles for old FD glass, third-party lenses, etc... and be able to import them into DPP.


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Re: Canon to Release Major Updates to DPP & EOS Utility
« Reply #111 on: June 17, 2014, 09:20:59 PM »

shunsai

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Re: Canon to Release Major Updates to DPP & EOS Utility
« Reply #112 on: June 17, 2014, 10:48:34 PM »
This does make me wonder what it would take in labor to get support for more camera bodies, lenses, etc... and whether a company could get help from the user community.  Plenty of us are in software, and many users would be very happy to create a lens profile to support their uncommon/outdated lens.  I think it would be cool to have community-constructed profiles for old FD glass, third-party lenses, etc... and be able to import them into DPP.

That would be a dream come true. I still use the 28-70mm 2.8L and the 80-200mm 2.8L lenses, as well as a Tokina UWA. I would love it if these lenses had supported profiles, but I know better than to get my hopes up about that. And perhaps you're right- maybe this split software will be a permanent thing. If they insist on keeping them split, I hope that they will keep updating version 3 for a while to come. But with a software split like this, it seems more likely that 3 will fall by the wayside and get neglected till they just scuttle it altogether.

Canon is one of the few companies I purchase from that has never given me any major causes for complaint, so I have been pretty loyal to them with my camera gear purchases. I think I've bought no less than 10 different digital cameras (SLRs and point-and-shoots) and 4 or 5 different lenses (three Ls) from them over the past 15 years so I have quite a few different file formats in my collection. While this is not yet a major deal, it's still a ding in their reputation with me and may make me rethink some of my purchases from them in the future.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2014, 10:50:50 PM by shunsai »

brianleighty

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Re: Canon to Release Major Updates to DPP & EOS Utility
« Reply #113 on: June 17, 2014, 10:59:41 PM »
Performance seems pretty good in the new version. That was one of my big pet peeves with the old version was if you opened a folder with 1000 photos it would just hang for like 30 seconds to a minute doing stuff. Now it's pretty much instantaneous. The actual exporting is actually a bit slower. I did 10 photos in the old version and it took 1:57. The new version took 2:21. I'm not seeing any differences in image quality but it's possible it's there. One big bummer is nothing as far as settings seems to transfer between the two. Not even simple things like exposure or check marks. It's hard for me to want to switch unless they at least put in support for the 5D mark II. But I'm glad to see they're at least moving in the right direction. Just needs a little more work hopefully.
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tq0cr5i

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Re: Canon to Release Major Updates to DPP & EOS Utility
« Reply #114 on: June 17, 2014, 11:57:44 PM »
Performance seems pretty good in the new version. That was one of my big pet peeves with the old version was if you opened a folder with 1000 photos it would just hang for like 30 seconds to a minute doing stuff. Now it's pretty much instantaneous. The actual exporting is actually a bit slower. I did 10 photos in the old version and it took 1:57. The new version took 2:21. I'm not seeing any differences in image quality but it's possible it's there. One big bummer is nothing as far as settings seems to transfer between the two. Not even simple things like exposure or check marks. It's hard for me to want to switch unless they at least put in support for the 5D mark II. But I'm glad to see they're at least moving in the right direction. Just needs a little more work hopefully.

Canon allows you to keep both 4.0 and 3.x of DPP on the same machine means your hope may not come true. It seems that the DPP team is developing the 4.x for the current full frame cameras while updating the 3.x for the rest and old cameras, till you move your BODY up for the 4.x features.
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kaihp

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Re: Canon to Release Major Updates to DPP & EOS Utility
« Reply #115 on: June 18, 2014, 03:51:17 AM »
One big bummer is nothing as far as settings seems to transfer between the two. Not even simple things like exposure or check marks.

Are you saying that doing an edit in DPP3 (e.g. curves & WB edit, and star-rating) doesn't show in DPP4? :o
My edits are coming over fine  :)

For the DLO module, I wish they had the old 400mm f/2.8L IS USM in there too, like the 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM.

brianleighty

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Re: Canon to Release Major Updates to DPP & EOS Utility
« Reply #116 on: June 18, 2014, 07:25:15 AM »
One big bummer is nothing as far as settings seems to transfer between the two. Not even simple things like exposure or check marks.

Are you saying that doing an edit in DPP3 (e.g. curves & WB edit, and star-rating) doesn't show in DPP4? :o
My edits are coming over fine  :)

For the DLO module, I wish they had the old 400mm f/2.8L IS USM in there too, like the 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM.
Yeah, everything I've tried so far isn't coming through. Haven't tried star ratings or looking at my curves but simple stuff like color that are in the picture style aren't coming over. Maybe I'm doing something wrong but the Canon site does say recipes don't transfer between the two so I'm guessing that's where Canon is storing all that stuff in the file :(
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JRPhotos

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Re: Canon to Release Major Updates to DPP & EOS Utility
« Reply #117 on: June 18, 2014, 08:10:22 AM »
Here's a follow up from my last email from Canon:
-----
Thank you for following up with us.

I understand your concerns, and cannot say with certainty how many more Operating systems will support DPP v3. I know there is a plan to have DPP v4 support more than the current 4 models, so it is likely your model will be supported by DPP v4 in the near future.

Please let us know if we can be of any further assistance with your EOS 7D. Thank you for choosing Canon.

Sincerely,

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Re: Canon to Release Major Updates to DPP & EOS Utility
« Reply #117 on: June 18, 2014, 08:10:22 AM »

bitm2007

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Re: Canon to Release Major Updates to DPP & EOS Utility
« Reply #118 on: June 18, 2014, 08:17:59 AM »
Quote
As things stand one version is abandoned as soon as the next is released

Support for new camera's  is only included in the latest Camera RAW plug-in and Lightroom.  In my experience (from camera clubs etc) this is more that enough to convince the less knowledgeable that an upgrade of their product is required.  Continuing support for outdated software for a reasonable period of time would eliminate this issue
« Last Edit: June 18, 2014, 08:47:33 AM by bitm2007 »

rambarra

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Re: Canon to Release Major Updates to DPP & EOS Utility
« Reply #119 on: June 18, 2014, 08:43:04 AM »
downloaded yesterday from HK site. Nice new GUI and more sliders to play with. Still it is a very rudimental software, born at least 5/7 years old. The real big plus vs lightroom and similar is optimization of canon lenses

WHen compared to ver.3 I notice a much faster loading of the high resolution image, BUT, when playing with sliders, you have to wait AT LEAST 2/3 seconds to see the effect applied to the image (5D3 RAW files). Maybe this is only a realease candidate?

I have a fast machine (win7 3930k ssd lots of memory etc.) so this thing is a bit weird. Anyone experiencing the same?


« Last Edit: June 18, 2014, 08:50:49 AM by rambarra »

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Re: Canon to Release Major Updates to DPP & EOS Utility
« Reply #119 on: June 18, 2014, 08:43:04 AM »