November 27, 2014, 02:39:02 PM

Author Topic: Which is better for high ISO, 6D or 5D Mk III?  (Read 5638 times)

tomscott

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 652
  • Graphic Designer & Photographer
    • View Profile
    • Tom Scott | Photography
Re: Which is better for high ISO, 6D or 5D Mk III?
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2014, 10:12:01 AM »
Thats an interesting comment Neuro didn't really think of it like that.

Isn't the noise reduction algorithm different in the 6D, slightly more NR in the standard config than the 5DMKIII giving images slightly less noise?
5D MKIII 40D 17-55mm F2.8 IS 16-35mm F2.8 II L 24-70mm F2.8 L 24-105mm F4 IS L 100mm F2.8 IS L 70-200mm F2.8 IS II L 70-300mm F4-5.6 IS L 50mm F1.8 2x Ex 580EX

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Which is better for high ISO, 6D or 5D Mk III?
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2014, 10:12:01 AM »

neuroanatomist

  • CR GEEK
  • **********
  • Posts: 14977
    • View Profile
Re: Which is better for high ISO, 6D or 5D Mk III?
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2014, 10:35:07 AM »
Isn't the noise reduction algorithm different in the 6D, slightly more NR in the standard config than the 5DMKIII giving images slightly less noise?

Perhaps. Canon likes to tout lower noise with new releases...but they're referring only to SOOC JPG shooting.  Shooting RAW and applying NR in post would yield better results either way.
EOS 1D X, EOS M, and lots of lenses
______________________________
Flickr | TDP Profile/Gear List

Dylan777

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 4279
    • View Profile
Re: Which is better for high ISO, 6D or 5D Mk III?
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2014, 08:21:02 PM »
The difference between the files are so minimal that I would call it a dead heat with the 6d just ever so slight advantage but would you notice in the real world.. don't think so.

The fact is you can get cracking results out of both cameras up to 6400ISO where i feel commercially you can push to. 12800 and 25600 can be used but only when needs must and you wouldn't get the shot otherwise.

Heres a few images shot at 12800 on the 5DMKIII and the 100mm L as a test to see what it could do!

The main positive about the 6D is the centre point is rated to -3ev whereas the 5DMKIII is -2EV.

But at the same time if your shooting in low light with large aperture glass you will be centring your image to keep focus, focus recompose with anything under F4 on a full frame camera and missing focus is very easy to do.

On the 5DMKIII you have 5 -2ev points which makes creative composition easier.



My 5D III focus just fine, even below -3EV (f1.4, 1.3sec, 1000ISO)
« Last Edit: July 08, 2014, 08:24:08 PM by Dylan777 »
Bodies: 1DX -- 5D III
Zooms: 16-35L f4 IS -- 24-70L II -- 70-200L f2.8 IS II
Primes: 40mm -- 85L II -- 135L -- 200L f2 IS -- 400L f2.8 IS II

Mt Spokane Photography

  • EF 50mm F 0.7 IS
  • *********
  • Posts: 9182
    • View Profile
Re: Which is better for high ISO, 6D or 5D Mk III?
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2014, 08:37:28 PM »
I do not hesitate to use my 5D MK III at ISO 25600 if I have no choice.  The 6D should be similar, and the 1D X somewhat better.  I also used my 1D MK IV at ISO 12800 when needed.
Generally, the noise is not much of a issue for ordinary sized prints, but, some view images at 1:1 ant when they see the noise, it bothers them.
The greatly reduced DR at extreme high ISO levels does make it difficult.

neuroanatomist

  • CR GEEK
  • **********
  • Posts: 14977
    • View Profile
Re: Which is better for high ISO, 6D or 5D Mk III?
« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2014, 08:52:10 PM »
My 5D III focus just fine, even below -3EV (f1.4, 1.3sec, 1000ISO)

That's something of a confound.  Even though a whole scene may meter at -3 EV or lower, often we're focusing on a portion of the scene that's much brighter that the average (or evaluated) metering for the entire scene – the bright ornaments in your case, tomscott's lit buttons on the dash, in my case a firelit face in a -3 EV scene.  I suspect spot metering over the selected focal point would yield a substantially brighter exposure for that region (rendering the rest of the scene underexposed).
EOS 1D X, EOS M, and lots of lenses
______________________________
Flickr | TDP Profile/Gear List

ewg963

  • Canon 70D
  • ****
  • Posts: 277
    • View Profile
Re: Which is better for high ISO, 6D or 5D Mk III?
« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2014, 09:55:46 PM »
Isn't it awesome that we can actually be having this discussion?! Usable iso 6400 pictures? I remember the first time I heard of iso 1000 film  ;)
+10000000000000000
5D Mark III, 5D Mark II, 24-105mm 70-200mm 2.8 Non IS, 100-400mm 50mm 1.4, 85mm 1.8, 580EX II, 600EX-RT

GMCPhotographics

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 728
    • View Profile
    • GMCPhotographics
Re: Which is better for high ISO, 6D or 5D Mk III?
« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2014, 08:12:27 AM »
From my observations, the 6D is about 1/3rd of a stop better in it's iso handling. The 1DX is about a 1/3rd of a stop better than the 6D or 2/3rds of a stop better than the 5DIII. Not killer but noticable on a like for like basis. But all three camera's tend to meter scenes slightly differently, so the results will be obviscated by the different metering and rendering values. But in an identially lit scene and all three cams on a tripod, set to M and manually dialled in settings, my above results will be apparent.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Which is better for high ISO, 6D or 5D Mk III?
« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2014, 08:12:27 AM »

Marsu42

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 5119
  • ML-66d / 100L / 70-300L / 17-40L / 600rts
    • View Profile
    • 6D positive spec list
Re: Which is better for high ISO, 6D or 5D Mk III?
« Reply #22 on: July 09, 2014, 08:23:53 AM »
I have a 6D, which I've been using in low light situations. In recent months I've found myself frequently exploring the limits I can go and still come up with what I consider successful photos. I've very happy with the results I've been getting up to ISO6400 or so.

After downsizing 22mp 5d3 -> 20mp 6d and adjusting for slight sharpness differences it's a wash, this is the same sensor generation. However the 6d has significantly less banding, i.e. higher dynamic range which *does* make a difference if your shots require it - it even tops 1dx on low iso. You can boost the dr on 6d even higher with Magic Lantern, nearly up to 15ev.

Having said that, no nice noise performance makes up for dodgy metering or getting out of focus shots with the ancient 6d af unless you're mf'ing (like with ML's focus peaking).

Even what I've shot at 12800 pleasantly surprises me.

ISO 12800 is just a digital push (on 6d, actually even 6400 is) - no need to use it unless you shoot jpeg or do video, otherwise underexpose a lower iso and keep the higher dynamic range of the lower setting.

The main positive about the 6D is the centre point is rated to -3ev whereas the 5DMKIII is -2EV.

Well, yes, it's "nice to have" esp. with slower lenses like f4+. *But* af'ing @-3lv is so slow that you could also just switch to live view and contrast af or mf with a boosted lv (ML again) which works far below -3lv.

GMCPhotographics

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 728
    • View Profile
    • GMCPhotographics
Re: Which is better for high ISO, 6D or 5D Mk III?
« Reply #23 on: July 09, 2014, 10:39:05 AM »
I have a 6D, which I've been using in low light situations. In recent months I've found myself frequently exploring the limits I can go and still come up with what I consider successful photos. I've very happy with the results I've been getting up to ISO6400 or so.

After downsizing 22mp 5d3 -> 20mp 6d and adjusting for slight sharpness differences it's a wash, this is the same sensor generation. However the 6d has significantly less banding, i.e. higher dynamic range which *does* make a difference if your shots require it - it even tops 1dx on low iso. You can boost the dr on 6d even higher with Magic Lantern, nearly up to 15ev.

Having said that, no nice noise performance makes up for dodgy metering or getting out of focus shots with the ancient 6d af unless you're mf'ing (like with ML's focus peaking).

Even what I've shot at 12800 pleasantly surprises me.

ISO 12800 is just a digital push (on 6d, actually even 6400 is) - no need to use it unless you shoot jpeg or do video, otherwise underexpose a lower iso and keep the higher dynamic range of the lower setting.

The main positive about the 6D is the centre point is rated to -3ev whereas the 5DMKIII is -2EV.

Well, yes, it's "nice to have" esp. with slower lenses like f4+. *But* af'ing @-3lv is so slow that you could also just switch to live view and contrast af or mf with a boosted lv (ML again) which works far below -3lv.

Which is why I prefer fast primes over f4 or f2.8 zooms. I gain a far lower iso value or a higher shutter speed.
If I gain 2 stops advantage, I can double my shutter speed and halve my iso value. If I dump my entire advantage into the iso value, it will fall by a factor of 4. That's a big difference and far more than any camera can provide regardless of how good the iso handling or on chip noise reduction is.

Marsu42

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 5119
  • ML-66d / 100L / 70-300L / 17-40L / 600rts
    • View Profile
    • 6D positive spec list
Re: Which is better for high ISO, 6D or 5D Mk III?
« Reply #24 on: July 09, 2014, 11:07:38 AM »
Which is why I prefer fast primes over f4 or f2.8 zooms. I gain a far lower iso value or a higher shutter speed.

Well, but lower than "100" is "screw on nd filter" and the iq of 1600 on the 6d is so good I seldom feel the necessity for a really fast prime. You can post-process push a bad exposure, but cropping from 20mp (too wide prime) is tricky, and adding image data in post (too long prime) is impossible.

And I already raved about how damn difficult it is to af with the 6d in enough threads, and even with a better af system the dof of f4 on longer focal lengths is already very thin @100% crop. Not that I'd dismiss fast primes as you get thin dof @small export/print sizes, but I guess I'm the "zoom flexibility" type of photog.

GMCPhotographics

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 728
    • View Profile
    • GMCPhotographics
Re: Which is better for high ISO, 6D or 5D Mk III?
« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2014, 06:21:06 PM »
Which is why I prefer fast primes over f4 or f2.8 zooms. I gain a far lower iso value or a higher shutter speed.

Well, but lower than "100" is "screw on nd filter" and the iq of 1600 on the 6d is so good I seldom feel the necessity for a really fast prime. You can post-process push a bad exposure, but cropping from 20mp (too wide prime) is tricky, and adding image data in post (too long prime) is impossible.

And I already raved about how damn difficult it is to af with the 6d in enough threads, and even with a better af system the dof of f4 on longer focal lengths is already very thin @100% crop. Not that I'd dismiss fast primes as you get thin dof @small export/print sizes, but I guess I'm the "zoom flexibility" type of photog.

Yep, I got by with my 5D and then 5DII for many years using fast primes. It was hard, but I used the single centre point and recompose technique and One shot setting. But I fitted a Eg-s fine focus screen so I could see if my 85 f1.2 IIL was in focus. I was a tricky technique but once mastered, I could shoot weddings all day at f1.2 as close to MFD as i liked and get sharp in focus image.

JohnDizzo15

  • Canon 6D
  • *****
  • Posts: 442
    • View Profile
Re: Which is better for high ISO, 6D or 5D Mk III?
« Reply #26 on: July 09, 2014, 07:09:30 PM »
I have a 6D, which I've been using in low light situations. In recent months I've found myself frequently exploring the limits I can go and still come up with what I consider successful photos. I've very happy with the results I've been getting up to ISO6400 or so. Even what I've shot at 12800 pleasantly surprises me.
But, I got talking with a couple people who suggested I might be better off with a 5D Mk III. I'm not so concerned about its performance at lower ISOs, as I've got three 1DS Mk III bodies that I use in most all situations, but I want to get the best results when I shoot in "available darkness".
What would you suggest I do?

Depends on what you are shooting I suppose. But if the question is purely centered on which one produces cleaner images at higher ISOs, the answer is the 6D.

I had the 5D3 for a year and a half and decided to go with the 6D to pocket some cash as I didn't need the additional features of the former.

An unforeseen benefit of the swap was in fact cleaner images at varying ISOs. The difference is not significant enough for you to notice in all situations. But the 6D is better in some instances and definitely at least equal to the 5D3 in all others. So if your concern is simply noise when moving into higher ISO ranges, you already have the better body.

LetTheRightLensIn

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 4019
    • View Profile
Re: Which is better for high ISO, 6D or 5D Mk III?
« Reply #27 on: July 09, 2014, 07:18:15 PM »
I have a 6D, which I've been using in low light situations. In recent months I've found myself frequently exploring the limits I can go and still come up with what I consider successful photos. I've very happy with the results I've been getting up to ISO6400 or so. Even what I've shot at 12800 pleasantly surprises me.
But, I got talking with a couple people who suggested I might be better off with a 5D Mk III. I'm not so concerned about its performance at lower ISOs, as I've got three 1DS Mk III bodies that I use in most all situations, but I want to get the best results when I shoot in "available darkness".
What would you suggest I do?

weird advice
The 6D is as good a sensor as Canon makes across all ISOs for both SNR and DR.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Which is better for high ISO, 6D or 5D Mk III?
« Reply #27 on: July 09, 2014, 07:18:15 PM »

MichaelHodges

  • Canon 6D
  • *****
  • Posts: 402
    • View Profile
Re: Which is better for high ISO, 6D or 5D Mk III?
« Reply #28 on: July 09, 2014, 07:29:03 PM »
The difference between the 6D and 5DIII in long exposure high ISO is enormous.

http://petapixel.com/2012/12/13/canon-6d-and-5dmk3-noise-comparison-for-high-iso-long-exposures/

LetTheRightLensIn

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 4019
    • View Profile
Re: Which is better for high ISO, 6D or 5D Mk III?
« Reply #29 on: July 09, 2014, 08:01:58 PM »
However, DxoMark specs showed the 6d and 5d3 very close (~2300), the 1Dx significantly better (~2800), and the older 5d2 (~1800) lagging the 6d and 5d3 in what they term "Sports (low light ISO)". For reference, the Nikon D4 was about 2950.

Looking at the plots the SNR between the three (1DX, 5D3, 6D) is really close. DR better at high ISO for 6D and 1DX and at low ISO for 6D.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Which is better for high ISO, 6D or 5D Mk III?
« Reply #29 on: July 09, 2014, 08:01:58 PM »