September 17, 2014, 01:38:42 PM

Author Topic: Long shot - Anyone tried using FD lenses on an EOS body?  (Read 5124 times)

yorgasor

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Re: Long shot - Anyone tried using FD lenses on an EOS body?
« Reply #30 on: July 04, 2014, 07:04:17 AM »
I haven't bothered with the FD lenses because of the specialty adapters required to use them.  I found it much easier to get some old Nikon AIS lenses and use those.  It's more difficult to get the focus just right, but it was a cheaper way to get high quality glass in focal ranges I could afford.  I regularly carry around my Nikon 300mm f/2.8 lens in spite of the weight, and when I do nail the focus just right, I get superb photos.  Back in those days, the Nikon glass was higher quality than the comparable Canon lenses. 

The biggest problem I have with these old lenses is the purple fringing.  They say it's not a big deal because it's easy to remove in post processing, but photos look even better if there weren't any fringing to begin with.  Still, I love my Nikon glass, and you'll have to pry it from my dead, cold hands if you want it :)

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Re: Long shot - Anyone tried using FD lenses on an EOS body?
« Reply #30 on: July 04, 2014, 07:04:17 AM »

mrsfotografie

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Re: Long shot - Anyone tried using FD lenses on an EOS body?
« Reply #31 on: July 04, 2014, 07:09:54 AM »
I agree with you that the Speedbooster has the further advantage of providing a protection barrier between the sensor and the outside world. Seeing the sensor being exposed to the elements makes me nervous everytime I change the lens on my CSC, the mirror box in the DSLR camera provides at least some sort of protection. I have an EF 8-15/4 fisheye lens which I want to use on my X-T1 with an adapter, but until now I have refrained from doing this adaptation because I fear that this zoom lens will "breath" some air (and particles that go with it) directly onto the sensor. I plan to adapt a transparent filter (with AR coating of course) inside an EF-to-X mount adapter in order to provide a physical barrier between the lens and the sensor but I'm afraid this will degrade the MTF properties of the lens...

Don't be too paranoid about protecting the sensor. I discovered dust on my NEX sensor the other day and was able to easily blow it away with a hurricane blower. One speck remained that I then picked up with an electrostatic sensor brush. At least that mirrorless sensor is easy to reach if you do need to give it a clean.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2014, 07:13:11 AM by mrsfotografie »
5D3, 5D2, Sony α6000, S90 | SY14 f/2.8, Ʃ20 f/1.8, 24 f/2.8, 35 f/2, Ʃ35 f/1.4A, 50 f/1.8 I, Ʃ50 f/1.4 EX, 100L Macro, 17-40L, 24-105L, 70-200 f/2.8L IS II, 1.4x II, 70-300L, 100-400L | E-mount: SY12 f/2, Ʃ19 & 30 f/2.8 EX DN, 16-70 ZA OSS, 55-210 OSS, Metabones SB | FT-QL, AE-1P | FD(n) & FL lenses

Max ☢

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Re: Long shot - Anyone tried using FD lenses on an EOS body?
« Reply #32 on: July 04, 2014, 08:46:00 AM »
you're probably right, I'll concentrate more on how to properly clean the sensor. I have no experience in this field, do you have some equipment and methods to recommend?

mrsfotografie

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Re: Long shot - Anyone tried using FD lenses on an EOS body?
« Reply #33 on: July 04, 2014, 12:11:38 PM »
you're probably right, I'll concentrate more on how to properly clean the sensor. I have no experience in this field, do you have some equipment and methods to recommend?

Well first of all- don't get it dirty! Keep the body facing down when changing lenses, be quick about changing them and do it in a suitable environment. I find it helps to check that rear elements of lenses are clean before I mount them on camera; at least if there is time I will give it a quick check and a puff of air to dislodge any dust if necessary.

As for sensor cleaning - just use a dust blower as a first resort. No compressed air mind you! Keep the lens mount facing downward as much as possible to help the dust come out and no new dust to fall in.

I have a sensor brush too - it's given an electrostatic charge by blowing air through the hair with the blower, and then you can lift the dust that won't come off the sensor simply by blowing. Try to avoid physical contact of the cleaning tool with the sensor surface unless absolutely necessary.

For more stubborn spots you may need to do a wet clean which requires the correct fluid (extremely important to check fluid compatibility to avoid damaging the sensor) and the correct size sensor swabs. Whatever you use to clean the sensor, keep it clinically clean and don't touch it with your fingers. For a wet clean you can use the sensor swab but only once, then use a new one for each new cleaning attempt. I have so far wet cleaned my 5DMkII about 2 or 3 times. A 400D I bought second hand required a more thorough clean and it took me three cleaning actions (three swabs) in one go to get it clean.

Always use a dust blower first to remove any dry particles! If any sand (sand is made of quartz, and that's a very hard material) gets into the body and onto the sensor, you may scratch the sensor when using a sensor swab.

My Nex only required the sensor brush for one speck of dust. The nice thing about not having a mirror assembly is that there's no lubricant that might find its way to the sensor. Some Nikons are notorious in getting oil from the mirror assembly onto the sensor.

Oh and only clean the sensor when specs of dust become apparent in your photo's. As long as you can't see it, it wont hurt your pictures.

To check for dus after a clean I stop down to about f/10 and then make a few shots of the sky while moving the camera. On a computer screen you can check for any dark spots that don't move between the different pictures.

There's a lot of info on the net about cleaning your camera. It sounds scary but is actually not to bad to do if you  have the right tools and take your time to follow the correct procedures.

Edit:

I just received and unpacked the Metabones Speed Booster - it really looks like a quality product! I instantly regret not having any 'L'  lenses to go with it. When I get around to it, I'll try it out this weekend ;)
« Last Edit: July 04, 2014, 01:42:43 PM by mrsfotografie »
5D3, 5D2, Sony α6000, S90 | SY14 f/2.8, Ʃ20 f/1.8, 24 f/2.8, 35 f/2, Ʃ35 f/1.4A, 50 f/1.8 I, Ʃ50 f/1.4 EX, 100L Macro, 17-40L, 24-105L, 70-200 f/2.8L IS II, 1.4x II, 70-300L, 100-400L | E-mount: SY12 f/2, Ʃ19 & 30 f/2.8 EX DN, 16-70 ZA OSS, 55-210 OSS, Metabones SB | FT-QL, AE-1P | FD(n) & FL lenses

Max ☢

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Re: Long shot - Anyone tried using FD lenses on an EOS body?
« Reply #34 on: July 04, 2014, 02:30:59 PM »
Thanks a lot for the extensive reply, this is very helpful! I see that I already have the good habit of changing the lenses with the body facing downward. I'll check the internet further for more details on sensor cleaning methods and products.

As for the SpeedBooster, mine arrived also very quickly, which surprised me given that it travelled all the way from England to the Netherlands. My experience with the British post has not been stellar, except for the Metabones adapter. Now you have to find your FDn 35/2 to test it, I'm still waiting for my two FDns and the postage delay is killing me ;D

criza

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Re: Long shot - Anyone tried using FD lenses on an EOS body?
« Reply #35 on: July 05, 2014, 01:06:39 PM »
I've converted a couple of FD lenses with EdMika conversion kits, using them on my Canon 6D.

So far I converted seven lenses: FDn 20/2.8, FDn 28/2, 55/1.2 SSC Aspherical, 85/1.2 SSC Aspherical, FDn 100/2, FDn 135/2 and my only zoom lens, the FDn 35-105/3.5. My converted manual focusing lenses even outnumber my AF lenses, having 'only' three of them (15/2.8, 24/1.4 II and my 200/2.8 II).

The lenses have all excellent image quality, some of them on a level with their EF/EOS counterparts as far as I can tell. The resolution of the pictures I take is fabulous. At f/1.2 the 55mm and 85mm are really sharp. It happens that I miss the focus when shooting moving targets, but I think this mostly depends on your manual focusing skills. The more I practice the more I have a feeling for the focusing ring of the lens, and how fast I have to turn it to catch the target in focus.

The only downside for me is the missing aperture information in the EXIF metadata, but I can live with that.

If you are interested you can check a couple of shots here:
85mm: https://secure.flickr.com/photos/10272067@N00/sets/72157633991245766/ here: https://secure.flickr.com/photos/10272067@N00/sets/72157633510326447/ and one single picture here: https://secure.flickr.com/photos/10272067@N00/8578943736/in/set-72157633052759823
55mm: https://secure.flickr.com/photos/10272067@N00/sets/72157633991142682/
135mm: https://secure.flickr.com/photos/10272067@N00/sets/72157634007480678/


« Last Edit: July 05, 2014, 01:11:21 PM by criza »

mrsfotografie

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Re: Long shot - Anyone tried using FD lenses on an EOS body?
« Reply #36 on: July 05, 2014, 03:22:12 PM »
I've converted a couple of FD lenses with EdMika conversion kits, using them on my Canon 6D.

So far I converted seven lenses: FDn 20/2.8, FDn 28/2, 55/1.2 SSC Aspherical, 85/1.2 SSC Aspherical, FDn 100/2, FDn 135/2 and my only zoom lens, the FDn 35-105/3.5. My converted manual focusing lenses even outnumber my AF lenses, having 'only' three of them (15/2.8, 24/1.4 II and my 200/2.8 II).

The lenses have all excellent image quality, some of them on a level with their EF/EOS counterparts as far as I can tell. The resolution of the pictures I take is fabulous. At f/1.2 the 55mm and 85mm are really sharp. It happens that I miss the focus when shooting moving targets, but I think this mostly depends on your manual focusing skills. The more I practice the more I have a feeling for the focusing ring of the lens, and how fast I have to turn it to catch the target in focus.

The only downside for me is the missing aperture information in the EXIF metadata, but I can live with that.

If you are interested you can check a couple of shots here:
85mm: https://secure.flickr.com/photos/10272067@N00/sets/72157633991245766/ here: https://secure.flickr.com/photos/10272067@N00/sets/72157633510326447/ and one single picture here: https://secure.flickr.com/photos/10272067@N00/8578943736/in/set-72157633052759823
55mm: https://secure.flickr.com/photos/10272067@N00/sets/72157633991142682/
135mm: https://secure.flickr.com/photos/10272067@N00/sets/72157634007480678/

Thanks for sharing! Some FD lenses are totally excellent ;)

Here's two shots from my NEX-6 +  Metabones Speed Booster. The first is a snapshot portrait of my girlfriend, at 1/400 f/2.5 with an FL 135mm f/2.5, a really interesting lens I may add!

The second is of same lens with a bunch of other kit. This shot was taken with the 50mm FDn f/1.4  at f/2.8 and the Speed Booster. I'm very happy with th 50mm + Speed Booster, even though there is a lot of Bokeh fringing (purple halos in front and green halos beyond the focus point)... this is caused by the lens, not the booster.

I'm also stoked to find the Sigma FDn 70-210mm 3.5-4.5 APO (rare lens) I bought on a whim the other day turns out to be a stellar performer, even at maximum aperture, both with and without the Speed Booster (third shot). It also has excellent ergonomics (it's a one-touch push/pull that gets longer as the focal length increases, and when you use the screw in hood to hold the long end of the lens, it's easy to keep it very steady). This zoom makes my FD 200mm f/4 SSC instantly obsolete... This shot of my cat was at f/5.6, 210mm.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2014, 03:58:07 PM by mrsfotografie »
5D3, 5D2, Sony α6000, S90 | SY14 f/2.8, Ʃ20 f/1.8, 24 f/2.8, 35 f/2, Ʃ35 f/1.4A, 50 f/1.8 I, Ʃ50 f/1.4 EX, 100L Macro, 17-40L, 24-105L, 70-200 f/2.8L IS II, 1.4x II, 70-300L, 100-400L | E-mount: SY12 f/2, Ʃ19 & 30 f/2.8 EX DN, 16-70 ZA OSS, 55-210 OSS, Metabones SB | FT-QL, AE-1P | FD(n) & FL lenses

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Re: Long shot - Anyone tried using FD lenses on an EOS body?
« Reply #36 on: July 05, 2014, 03:22:12 PM »

Max ☢

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Re: Long shot - Anyone tried using FD lenses on an EOS body?
« Reply #37 on: July 09, 2014, 05:37:27 AM »
Nice sample images mrs! I just got my FD 50mm 1.2L and the results with the Speedbooster and the Fuji X-T1 are quite interesting:

focus: the focus peaking function from the X-T1 makes it very easy to nail the manual focus nine times out of ten. Having started photography in the film days I'm rediscovering the joy of manually setting the lens without compromising the keeper rate  :)

handhold-ability: I repeated the same test as that detailed in a previous post and I made the comparison with my 6D and EF 50mm 1.2L keeping the FoV and DoF constant:
- Fuji X-T1+speedbooster+FD50L at 36mm (53mm equivalent in 135 format), f/1.2, 1/30s = 8/10 clean shots
- Canon 6D + EF50L at 50mm, f/1.2, 1/50s = 6/10 clean shots
Again, same conclusion as before, I got more keepers with the APS-C system and the focal reduction from the speedbooster enables a significant decrease in minimum shutter speed at no cost on the keeper rate.

Image quality and properties: In the first tests I found that I get significantly shaper in-focus images with the FD50/1.2L+Speedbooster on the X-T1 than with the EF50/1.2L on the 6D, but there's still some strong spherochromatic aberrations at f/1.2 as expected with such a fast lens. In terms of bokeh, I can hardly see any significant differences between the two set-ups although the APS-C combination deliver a shallower DoF at the same subject distance and lens apperture than the EF50/1.2L+6D (!) which I did not see coming, especially in view of the next observations.

Light-gathering ability: I had hoped that the FD50/1.2L+Speedbooster would deliver a 1 stop advantage in terms of light-gathering ability over the EF50/1.2L due to the reduction in the projected image circle. However, in my ISO and shutter speed tests I found that the two optical systems delivered the exact same image brightness at the sensor, which is caused by the fact that the FD50/1.2L has an optical transmission 1 Tstop slower than the EF50/1.2L. When I dug into this puzzling result I realized that the FD50 has smaller front and back lenses than the EF50, and the reduced T-stop is just a result of the different generations of optical formula. So, in this particular case there is no low-light advantage and the speedbooster just brings the older lens up to the same light transmission level of the newer EF lens.

Since the combination of the FD50/1.2L and the Speedbooster delivers an optical formula of 36mm and f/0.9, the light-gathering properties of the sensor become important factors impacting on the final shutter speed / ISO settings when the lens is used wide open. In my tests I found that below the f/1.4 setting at the lens (f/1.0 for the system) the collected image intensity by the sensor no longer increased linearly with the apperture area. This is clearly caused by light falling beyond the acceptance cone of each individual sensor pixel. The limit of Fuji's X-trans APS-C sensor seems to be around f/1.0 and this is also why I was surprised to find a slightly shallower DoF with this camera and the FD50+Speedbooster than with my EF50/1.2L+6D.

All in all, I am very pleased with the new APS-C combination. The X-T1+Speedbooster+FD50/1.2L delivers improved image outputs (shallower DoF and sharper in-focus images) compared to the FF system, all in a significantly smaller and lighter package. The manual focusing on the mirrorless systems is a far more pleasant and accurate process than on my 6D provided with the EG-S screen! However, the full-frame system retains its ~1stop low light advantage, but since this is not a critical factor for me I think I'll eventually ditch this system if my experience with the X-T1 in next couple of months remains as positive as it its now.

I don't have many interesting images taken with the FD50 yet as in the past couple days I just did some technical tests to assess the value of the APS-C set-up. I'll get proper portraits and other in the-field pictures as time progress. Anyway, out of interest I post some of the first technical samples below. All images are straight OOC and reduced in size under photoshop with some color point tweak done in the process. The first two pictures were taken at f/0.9 under fluorescent light (top right position) and some additional daylight (very weak due to poor weather, at left side of the subjects):


LED bicycle lamp, ISO 200, 1/180s, 1800x1200 image here


Metal halide lamp, ISO 200, 1/90s, 1800x1200 image here

and below, stopped down to f/4.0 under weak halogen light (top of the subject):


HID projection headlight module, ISO 1250, 1/40s, 1800x1200 image here

now, I'm waiting for the FD 15/2.8 fisheye and the FD 135/2 with great expectations  ;D
« Last Edit: July 09, 2014, 05:46:17 AM by Max ☢ »

mrsfotografie

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Re: Long shot - Anyone tried using FD lenses on an EOS body?
« Reply #38 on: July 09, 2014, 06:34:24 AM »

...

now, I'm waiting for the FD 15/2.8 fisheye and the FD 135/2 with great expectations  ;D

Great results! I agree that manual focusing on the mirrorless systems is a far more pleasant and accurate process, but that is also due to the MF lenses being designed exactly for that purpose.  Focus peaking is also a great help but I've found it can be mislead for instance if you have a low contrast foreground and sharply defined background; the focus peaking will draw on the background, indicating it is sharp while it is not really in focus. Best is to magnify and check. So it's a great system for static/still life photography, but other than developing a good pre-focusing technique, it's not that great for dynamic subjects.

The speed booster really is magical; an aps-c camera suddenly really gives that FF feel and it has completely changed the way I look at my NEX-6.

Regarding wide apertures: I've found that wide open, contrast is reduced and there is some ghosting with the FDn 50mm 1.4, but when I checked that lens with a regular adapter (no glass) it turns out to be caused by the lens, not the speed booster.

Keep me posted regarding the results with wide angle lenses. The speed booster performs really nicely with my FDn 28mm f/2.8, but the Sigma 21-35 results were pretty much unusable - worse than without the speed booster. This is likely caused by the lens though as I have rebuilt that one due to a sticky aperture and I may have done a poor job reassembling and/or cleaning it. I don't really have a way to calibrate that lens anyhow so it's trial and error if I try to adjust that lens and get better contrast and sharpness.  Still the results without the speed booster are better with this lens so I wonder how the speed booster plays with wide angle (wider than 28mm).
5D3, 5D2, Sony α6000, S90 | SY14 f/2.8, Ʃ20 f/1.8, 24 f/2.8, 35 f/2, Ʃ35 f/1.4A, 50 f/1.8 I, Ʃ50 f/1.4 EX, 100L Macro, 17-40L, 24-105L, 70-200 f/2.8L IS II, 1.4x II, 70-300L, 100-400L | E-mount: SY12 f/2, Ʃ19 & 30 f/2.8 EX DN, 16-70 ZA OSS, 55-210 OSS, Metabones SB | FT-QL, AE-1P | FD(n) & FL lenses

Max ☢

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Re: Long shot - Anyone tried using FD lenses on an EOS body?
« Reply #39 on: July 09, 2014, 10:19:40 AM »
I think the Speedbooster is fully compatible with wide-angle lenses as indicated in Metabones' white paper, especially pp13-14:
Quote
Ultra-Wide Lenses: As mentioned in Section 6 above, the Speed Booster can be combined with ultra-wide lenses such as the 8-16mm Sigma zoom lens to produce a record-breaking 5.6–11.2mm ultra-wide zoom for Micro Four Thirds (but see note below).
So, unless your Sigma 21-35 is really optically compromized, you should not have any problem with its combination with the Speedbooster. In any cases I'll be back here with feedbacks on how the FD15mm performs with my set-up. I am not worried about the quality of the resulting images, but I really hope the lens has a decent Tstop value at f/2.8 so I can shoot hand-held in low light conditions...

On the subject of manual focusing lenses, I agree that mirrorless systems are intrinsically better designed than DSLRs for this purpose, and it certainly doesn't hurt if the attached lens is also optimized for this function. However, this is for sure not the best set-up for people into sport/action photography, but the AF function in mirrorless cameras (provided with the proper lenses that is) are getting better at each product iteration and I don't think we will have to wait very long before we can enjoy DSLR-like performances with CSCs.

As far as manual focusing with ultrafast lenses goes, you are indeed correct that the focus-peeking function can be misleading with subjects which are not properly contrasted. I go easily around this problem by using both the zoomed-in view and the focus-peeking functions which are bundled automatically in a single image in the EVF of my Fuji - that's indeed very convenient to make sure the subject is sharp and well in focus.

mrsfotografie

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Re: Long shot - Anyone tried using FD lenses on an EOS body?
« Reply #40 on: July 09, 2014, 12:12:33 PM »
So, unless your Sigma 21-35 is really optically compromized, you should not have any problem with its combination with the Speedbooster.

When I get around to it, I intend to revisit this lens and see what I can do to improve its performance, because it's supposed to actually be pretty good.
5D3, 5D2, Sony α6000, S90 | SY14 f/2.8, Ʃ20 f/1.8, 24 f/2.8, 35 f/2, Ʃ35 f/1.4A, 50 f/1.8 I, Ʃ50 f/1.4 EX, 100L Macro, 17-40L, 24-105L, 70-200 f/2.8L IS II, 1.4x II, 70-300L, 100-400L | E-mount: SY12 f/2, Ʃ19 & 30 f/2.8 EX DN, 16-70 ZA OSS, 55-210 OSS, Metabones SB | FT-QL, AE-1P | FD(n) & FL lenses

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Re: Long shot - Anyone tried using FD lenses on an EOS body?
« Reply #40 on: July 09, 2014, 12:12:33 PM »