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Author Topic: Canon EF 16-35 F/4L IS -- Reviews are trickling in...  (Read 47984 times)

ahsanford

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Re: Canon EF 16-35 F/4L IS -- Reviews are trickling in...
« Reply #75 on: July 16, 2014, 09:12:32 PM »
Just ran a crude IS test on my 5D3.

1) IS OFF at 16mm, I netted:

  • 3 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/15s exposure
  • 2 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/8s exposure
  • 1 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/4s exposure

2) IS ON at 16mm, I netted:

  • 5 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/15s exposure
  • 5 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/8s exposure
  • 4 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/4s exposure
  • 1.5 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/2s exposure (a borderline one was called 0.5)
  • 0 out of 5 sharp shots at 1s exposure

3) IS OFF at 35mm, I netted:

  • 5 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/60s exposure
  • 4 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/30s exposure
  • 1 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/15s exposure

4) IS ON at 35mm, I netted:

  • 5 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/60s exposure
  • 5 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/30s exposure
  • 5 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/15s exposure
  • 4.5 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/8s exposure (a borderline one was called 0.5)
  • 2 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/4s exposure
  • 1 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/2s exposure
  • 0.5 out of 5 sharp shots at 1s exposure (a borderline one was called 0.5)


Granted, n of 5 is weak statistical power for a variable like my grip/shooting technique and the method of selecting sharp shots is decidedly subjective, but the numbers above suggest I'm seeing a sliver over 1 stop IS at 16mm and about 3 stops IS at 35mm.

Perhaps infrared has found something here.  I don't want to go on a witch hunt, but can I ask others with this new lens to attempt a similar evaluation?  Your grip / breathing very well may be better than mine, but the approach should work -- use non-IS to find where your ability fails you, and then see how much further IS lets you slow the shutter.

- A

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Re: Canon EF 16-35 F/4L IS -- Reviews are trickling in...
« Reply #75 on: July 16, 2014, 09:12:32 PM »

infared

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Re: Canon EF 16-35 F/4L IS -- Reviews are trickling in...
« Reply #76 on: July 16, 2014, 09:39:56 PM »
Ahsanford,
Yeah..everything I have read is super positive about the IS.  I am an extremely experienced  photographer. 

...

Like I said, I am very experienced and truly know and understand ALL the variables...except the IS ..LOL!

Super helpful, thanks.  I'd agree your test should absolutely net sharp shots.  Something seems amiss.

Potential culprits:

  • How good is your grip / mechanics of holding the camera steady?  I presume this is not your problem, but it's worth ruling out:  pick a 'tough to handhold without IS' shutter speed (say 1/4s for a 16mm shot or a 1/15s for a 35mm shot) and take 10 shots with and without the IS on.  If the IS shots have a higher hit rate and the than the non-IS shots, that implies the IS is working and it may be your grip / holding technique.

  • Do you know the IS is on and working?  One simple test is with your ears.  Verify the IS switch is 'on' and switch the lens to MF (so you don't hear focusing adjustments) and then you press the shutter halfway with your ear next to the lens.  You'll initially hear a little noise at half-shutter-press, but after you let go, the IS motor/mechanism/whatever should be whirring in the background for an additional moment or two.  It's really, really faint with IS in the year 2014, but the sound is there if you listen for it.  If you don't hear that noise, I'd wonder if there was a glitch with the IS internals or possibly you have a faulty connection with the IS switch.  I defer to the nerdy folks and professionals on this forum, but if you can't hear the IS going when the switch for IS is 'on', something is off and I'd consider returning the lens.

  • It could be a poor AF, potentially.  Take AF out of the possible root causes and repeat your test:  switch to MF, go LiveView and 10x manually focus and repeat your 'tough to handhold without IS' test.  And yes, you need to handhold during LiveView for this -- it shouldn't be too hard with these wide FLs (I'm reaching / speculating at this point.)

- A

Thanks for all the HELPFUL suggestions...I have tried to be very specific...have to be to diagnose the situation! Being vague and non descriptive won't get us anywhere. You have brought up some things that I have not tried.
So...I gave a listen...and I can hear the IS motor kick on and continuously run...  I knew it was working as my IS shots  were sharper than my non IS shots...but my concern is that the IS is not performing as intended or at 100%.
Your suggestion about using manual focus is a great idea...that will eliminate one more variable...I am going to shoot more tests over the next few days.  I have a lot of IS lenses and also use Olympus MFT  cameras as well...so I am no stranger to IS...and with all the rant about how fantastic the IS is on this lens I think that I am intuitively finding it lacking a little or that something is not quite right.  Could be me , i.e. operator error or too much expectation! LOL!
I do have good grip tech, etc...but my experience is that if I go thru all those monkey shines to be as rock solid as possible it is to push my results past expectation...which many times I can...but if this lens is at all what it is touted to be I should expect consistent excellent results at 1/15-1/30 while casually (not carelessly) gripping the camera.
Don't you agree?
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infared

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Re: Canon EF 16-35 F/4L IS -- Reviews are trickling in...
« Reply #77 on: July 16, 2014, 09:47:24 PM »
Just ran a crude IS test on my 5D3.

1) IS OFF at 16mm, I netted:

  • 3 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/15s exposure
  • 2 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/8s exposure
  • 1 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/4s exposure

2) IS ON at 16mm, I netted:

  • 5 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/15s exposure
  • 5 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/8s exposure
  • 4 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/4s exposure
  • 1.5 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/2s exposure (a borderline one was called 0.5)
  • 0 out of 5 sharp shots at 1s exposure

3) IS OFF at 35mm, I netted:

  • 5 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/60s exposure
  • 4 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/30s exposure
  • 1 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/15s exposure

4) IS ON at 35mm, I netted:

  • 5 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/60s exposure
  • 5 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/30s exposure
  • 5 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/15s exposure
  • 4.5 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/8s exposure (a borderline one was called 0.5)
  • 2 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/4s exposure
  • 1 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/2s exposure
  • 0.5 out of 5 sharp shots at 1s exposure (a borderline one was called 0.5)


Granted, n of 5 is weak statistical power for a variable like my grip/shooting technique and the method of selecting sharp shots is decidedly subjective, but the numbers above suggest I'm seeing a sliver over 1 stop IS at 16mm and about 3 stops IS at 35mm.

Perhaps infrared has found something here.  I don't want to go on a witch hunt, but can I ask others with this new lens to attempt a similar evaluation?  Your grip / breathing very well may be better than mine, but the approach should work -- use non-IS to find where your ability fails you, and then see how much further IS lets you slow the shutter.

- A

This is very helpful! THANKS!

I think I am not achieving stable images at your level, which from my experience and what I have read about this particular lens...your results are on target and what one should expect!
It may have been over excitement, I hope. I am going to test the lens thoroughly over the weekend and make my decision as to return it or keep it.  This is frustrating...!
Thanks for the general sharpness percentages...now I know what I SHOULD expect!
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neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon EF 16-35 F/4L IS -- Reviews are trickling in...
« Reply #78 on: July 16, 2014, 10:00:59 PM »
For those testing the IS, are you half-pressing the shutter (or pressing AF-ON if you use BBF) and then letting the IS system operate for ~0.5 s to fully stabilize the image?  I've often found that if you simply press the shutter on an IS lens, you get a shot that's not much better than no IS.  Here are some tests I did with the 100L.   
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infared

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Re: Canon EF 16-35 F/4L IS -- Reviews are trickling in...
« Reply #79 on: July 16, 2014, 10:35:50 PM »
For those testing the IS, are you half-pressing the shutter (or pressing AF-ON if you use BBF) and then letting the IS system operate for ~0.5 s to fully stabilize the image?  I've often found that if you simply press the shutter on an IS lens, you get a shot that's not much better than no IS.  Here are some tests I did with the 100L.
Good point!!!! I was not considering that although I was half pressing to focus most of the time so I think that the IS was up and running... after listening to the little motor start up you get a feel for what you are saying...it has to start and get up and running and it is NOT instantaneous. Thanks for the help!
I have the 100IS Macro too...and it seems to me that the IS performs better on that lens...so with a wide angle lens I would definitely expect the IS to be so much more effective considering less virtual movement due to the focal length of the wide angle zoom.
Thanks for the help.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2014, 05:23:44 AM by infared »
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sanj

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Re: Canon EF 16-35 F/4L IS -- Reviews are trickling in...
« Reply #80 on: July 17, 2014, 12:50:04 AM »
For those testing the IS, are you half-pressing the shutter (or pressing AF-ON if you use BBF) and then letting the IS system operate for ~0.5 s to fully stabilize the image?  I've often found that if you simply press the shutter on an IS lens, you get a shot that's not much better than no IS.  Here are some tests I did with the 100L.

Thx much for this.

ahsanford

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Re: Canon EF 16-35 F/4L IS -- Reviews are trickling in...
« Reply #81 on: July 17, 2014, 01:41:32 AM »

Neuro.  Wow.  Had no idea.  My 5 shots were discrete shutter depressions, but they were in rapid succession.

Will check this out now. 

- A

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Re: Canon EF 16-35 F/4L IS -- Reviews are trickling in...
« Reply #81 on: July 17, 2014, 01:41:32 AM »

ahsanford

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Re: Canon EF 16-35 F/4L IS -- Reviews are trickling in...
« Reply #82 on: July 17, 2014, 02:00:17 AM »

IS data re-run with Neuro's advice in mind.  A solid 2s run-up with the IS was used for each shot.

New IS data below.  Same non-IS data as before.

1) IS OFF at 16mm, I netted:

  • 3 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/15s exposure
  • 2 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/8s exposure
  • 1 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/4s exposure

2) IS ON at 16mm, I netted:

  • 5 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/15s exposure
  • 5 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/8s exposure
  • 4 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/4s exposure
  • 2 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/2s exposure
  • 1 out of 5 sharp shots at 1s exposure (two borderline ones were called 0.5 each)

3) IS OFF at 35mm, I netted:

  • 5 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/60s exposure
  • 4 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/30s exposure
  • 1 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/15s exposure

4) IS ON at 35mm, I netted:

  • 5 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/60s exposure
  • 5 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/30s exposure
  • 5 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/15s exposure
  • 4.5 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/8s exposure (a borderline one was called 0.5)
  • 3.5 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/4s exposure (a borderline one was called 0.5)
  • 2 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/2s exposure
  • 0.5 out of 5 sharp shots at 1s exposure (a borderline one was called 0.5)

I'll be damned.  Neuro's trick shows 16mm IS is more like a 2 stop benefit, but the 35mm data only slightly improved (still around 3 stops).

Neuro, is this true with all IS lenses?  That might imply sports guys with long glass never net as sharp a shot with the first frame in a long burst that they might get with the rest...

- A

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon EF 16-35 F/4L IS -- Reviews are trickling in...
« Reply #83 on: July 17, 2014, 08:14:41 AM »
Neuro, is this true with all IS lenses?  That might imply sports guys with long glass never net as sharp a shot with the first frame in a long burst that they might get with the rest...

Yes, although I think the MkII supertele lenses stabilize faster, and they have a Mode 3 that leaves the VF unstabilized until the shot it taken. 

Many sports shooters (and me, for BIF) are using shutter speeds fast enough that IS is of no benefit anyway.
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bdunbar79

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Re: Canon EF 16-35 F/4L IS -- Reviews are trickling in...
« Reply #84 on: July 17, 2014, 08:40:51 AM »

IS data re-run with Neuro's advice in mind.  A solid 2s run-up with the IS was used for each shot.

New IS data below.  Same non-IS data as before.

1) IS OFF at 16mm, I netted:

  • 3 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/15s exposure
  • 2 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/8s exposure
  • 1 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/4s exposure

2) IS ON at 16mm, I netted:

  • 5 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/15s exposure
  • 5 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/8s exposure
  • 4 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/4s exposure
  • 2 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/2s exposure
  • 1 out of 5 sharp shots at 1s exposure (two borderline ones were called 0.5 each)

3) IS OFF at 35mm, I netted:

  • 5 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/60s exposure
  • 4 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/30s exposure
  • 1 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/15s exposure

4) IS ON at 35mm, I netted:

  • 5 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/60s exposure
  • 5 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/30s exposure
  • 5 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/15s exposure
  • 4.5 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/8s exposure (a borderline one was called 0.5)
  • 3.5 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/4s exposure (a borderline one was called 0.5)
  • 2 out of 5 sharp shots at 1/2s exposure
  • 0.5 out of 5 sharp shots at 1s exposure (a borderline one was called 0.5)

I'll be damned.  Neuro's trick shows 16mm IS is more like a 2 stop benefit, but the 35mm data only slightly improved (still around 3 stops).

Neuro, is this true with all IS lenses?  That might imply sports guys with long glass never net as sharp a shot with the first frame in a long burst that they might get with the rest...

- A

I use long superteles and shoot sports and I never use IS because my keeper rate is lower than with it off...exactly from what neuro stated.  I didn't really think the 300 f/2.8L II IS speed or mode 3 helped vs. the version I lens either.  IS certainly has it's places though, for sure.
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tron

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Re: Canon EF 16-35 F/4L IS -- Reviews are trickling in...
« Reply #85 on: July 17, 2014, 09:36:43 AM »
I got this lens yesterday :)

Now I need to go on vacation to test it (2 birds with one stone  :) )

I just made a few internal test shots and the IS looks promising.

mackguyver

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Re: Canon EF 16-35 F/4L IS -- Reviews are trickling in...
« Reply #86 on: July 17, 2014, 09:45:51 AM »
I got this lens yesterday :)

Now I need to go on vacation to test it (2 birds with one stone  :) )

I just made a few internal test shots and the IS looks promising.
Congrats!  I'm itching to get back out with mine, too...the weekend is getting closer at least.
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tron

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Re: Canon EF 16-35 F/4L IS -- Reviews are trickling in...
« Reply #87 on: July 17, 2014, 09:54:52 AM »
I got this lens yesterday :)

Now I need to go on vacation to test it (2 birds with one stone  :) )

I just made a few internal test shots and the IS looks promising.
Congrats!  I'm itching to get back out with mine, too...the weekend is getting closer at least.
Thanks  :) I gave my EF24mm 2.8 (non IS) which was not being used and saved 250 Euros of the price (initial 1050) Now I want to see how it performs at the edges since I had sold my 16-35 2.8 version 1 for this very reason (plus the fact that it had coma).

It is interesting that it is as big and as heavy as my 16-35 2.8 was!

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Re: Canon EF 16-35 F/4L IS -- Reviews are trickling in...
« Reply #87 on: July 17, 2014, 09:54:52 AM »

mackguyver

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Re: Canon EF 16-35 F/4L IS -- Reviews are trickling in...
« Reply #88 on: July 17, 2014, 10:05:02 AM »
I got this lens yesterday :)

Now I need to go on vacation to test it (2 birds with one stone  :) )

I just made a few internal test shots and the IS looks promising.
Congrats!  I'm itching to get back out with mine, too...the weekend is getting closer at least.
Thanks  :) I gave my EF24mm 2.8 (non IS) which was not being used and saved 250 Euros of the price (initial 1050) Now I want to see how it performs at the edges since I had sold my 16-35 2.8 version 1 for this very reason (plus the fact that it had coma).

It is interesting that it is as big and as heavy as my 16-35 2.8 was!
I'm certain you'll be pleased with the edge performance and the color and contrast is nearly identical to the 24-70 f/2.8 II based on my testing.   The coma tests I've seen so far also show very good, though not perfect performance.  I was a bit surprised by the size & weight, too, but I love that compact hood!
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Byte

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Re: Canon EF 16-35 F/4L IS -- Reviews are trickling in...
« Reply #89 on: July 18, 2014, 04:07:44 PM »
Bonjour,

Some IS example (5D3, handhold, IS, 16mm, Dpp jpeg 3, Standard style, 3000x2000):
1: 1/6s  f/22  Iso 50. Polar filter (broken and too much polarized). I was quite out of breath...
2: 1/3s  f/4  Iso 400

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Re: Canon EF 16-35 F/4L IS -- Reviews are trickling in...
« Reply #89 on: July 18, 2014, 04:07:44 PM »