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Author Topic: Patent: Canon 5 Layer UV, IR, RGB Sensor  (Read 31642 times)

Cheryll

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Re: Patent: Canon 5 Layer UV, IR, RGB Sensor
« Reply #30 on: June 27, 2014, 02:22:49 PM »
A patent showing a 5 layer image sensor from Canon has appeared. UV and IR layers help with color reproduction especially for skin tones.</p>


New Patent here new Sensor there
New Patent here new Sensor there
New Patent here new Sensor there

Canon it is time to give us a camera(s) with this new technologies, let us testing how good it is  ;D
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Re: Patent: Canon 5 Layer UV, IR, RGB Sensor
« Reply #30 on: June 27, 2014, 02:22:49 PM »

Meh

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Re: Patent: Canon 5 Layer UV, IR, RGB Sensor
« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2014, 02:26:11 PM »
Does the comment from Northlight that the patent doesn't show any pixel structure make sense?  If it's a layered (Foven type) sensor then there wouldn't be any "pixel structure" per se.
I was referring to there being no details of the internal structure of the light sensitive regions, or positions of wiring interconnects and the like.

Compare it, for example, to the Canon patent drawing I linked earlier.  This one is very much a block diagram - although I like the assorted boxes and stuff on the underside, to suggest a BSI sensor...

Ah ok, got what you mean now.

wsmith96

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Re: Patent: Canon 5 Layer UV, IR, RGB Sensor
« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2014, 03:51:27 PM »
Perhaps this is part of the reason there was a DPP 4.0 redesign.  Maybe there is more in that tool than is "turned on" right now to allow for such future sensors.
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danski0224

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Re: Patent: Canon 5 Layer UV, IR, RGB Sensor
« Reply #33 on: June 27, 2014, 06:56:42 PM »
Canon Foveon... bring it :)

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Patent: Canon 5 Layer UV, IR, RGB Sensor
« Reply #34 on: June 27, 2014, 08:41:12 PM »
Hmm someone on another site showed a different version where they show faces and stuff that makes it more clear.

Oh I think I get it now, actually kinda disappointing. This reminds me of the Nikon Scanners with Infrared ICE technology to help remove dirt and dust and such. The fact they talk about skin and wrinkles and blemishes makes me think they want to grab some UV and IR and use it as a sort of auto skin specialized fine bump/wrinkle/blemish remover. Maybe helpful for particular types of portraits, but nothing of any use for anyone else at I'd think. Actually I guess it is sort of different than IR ICE as here it takes the IR hot spots as the better parts, but using a bit of UV, IR and visible it's the same sort of idea in the grandest scheme of things.

I hope this isn't the big thing that is coming and that they tested a portrait studio the other month.

(unless the regular three foveon-like layers, themselves do wonders when you have the IR and UV stuff shut off or I don't get what they are trying to imply)
« Last Edit: June 27, 2014, 08:47:40 PM by LetTheRightLensIn »

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Patent: Canon 5 Layer UV, IR, RGB Sensor
« Reply #35 on: June 27, 2014, 08:45:44 PM »
Hmm someone on another site showed a different version where they show faces and stuff that makes it more clear.

Oh I think I get it now, actually kinda disappointing. This reminds me of the Nikon Scanners with Infrared ICE technology to help remove dirt and dust and such. The fact they talk about skin and wrinkles and blemishes makes me think they want to grab some UV and IR and use it as a sort of auto skin specialized fine bump/wrinkle/blemish remover. Maybe helpful for particular types of portraits, but nothing of any use for anyone else at I'd think.

I hope this isn't the big thing that is coming and that they tested a portrait studio the other month.

(unless the regular three foveon-like layers, themselves do wonders when you have the IR and UV stuff shut off or I don't get what they are trying to imply)

They have a diagram with more to it here:
http://thenewcamera.com/

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Patent: Canon 5 Layer UV, IR, RGB Sensor
« Reply #36 on: June 27, 2014, 08:52:57 PM »
I guess there could be a large market for helping to automatically clean up skin and complexions a bit these days (with all the selfies and portrait shots and quick snapshots of friends taken these days). For any other purpose though I think this patent is nothing doing and some are reading into it stuff it's not meant for at all I suspect.

There is a chance this is aimed at P&S only, hard to say.

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Re: Patent: Canon 5 Layer UV, IR, RGB Sensor
« Reply #36 on: June 27, 2014, 08:52:57 PM »

jrista

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Re: Patent: Canon 5 Layer UV, IR, RGB Sensor
« Reply #37 on: June 27, 2014, 11:07:57 PM »
A patent showing a 5 layer image sensor from Canon has appeared. UV and IR layers help with color reproduction especially for skin tones.</p>


New Patent here new Sensor there
New Patent here new Sensor there
New Patent here new Sensor there

Canon it is time to give us a camera(s) with this new technologies, let us testing how good it is  ;D

Hah! I agree. Canon has a lot of really good patents for camera sensors...they just never seem to apply them. I'd love to have a 120mp APS-H that can do 9.5fps...I really wonder why they haven't stuffed that wonder into an actual DSLR and just trounced all the competition.

Jan

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Re: Patent: Canon 5 Layer UV, IR, RGB Sensor
« Reply #38 on: June 28, 2014, 04:50:44 AM »
Nobody's brought it up so I'll mention it. Isn't the timing on this interesting in that Canon just released a new version of DPP that isn't backwards compatible? Maybe the new RAW formula is already in the software?
Good point. I thought about it, too... but, why should the 6D, 1Dx... already use the new RAW formula?

zalas

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Re: Patent: Canon 5 Layer UV, IR, RGB Sensor
« Reply #39 on: June 28, 2014, 05:43:36 AM »
Oh I think I get it now, actually kinda disappointing. This reminds me of the Nikon Scanners with Infrared ICE technology to help remove dirt and dust and such. The fact they talk about skin and wrinkles and blemishes makes me think they want to grab some UV and IR and use it as a sort of auto skin specialized fine bump/wrinkle/blemish remover. Maybe helpful for particular types of portraits, but nothing of any use for anyone else at I'd think. Actually I guess it is sort of different than IR ICE as here it takes the IR hot spots as the better parts, but using a bit of UV, IR and visible it's the same sort of idea in the grandest scheme of things.
Yes, you have the right idea.  The original Japanese blog post says that the patent assumes the availability of a 5-channel sensor and focuses on what you can do with the extra information -- namely extracting the blemishes and wrinkles from the UV image and using the IR image to extract where the skin is visible, combining the two pieces of information to do blemish and wrinkle removal without reducing contrast or the feeling of depth (I assume it means that current algorithms remove shadows by accident).

wickidwombat

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Re: Patent: Canon 5 Layer UV, IR, RGB Sensor
« Reply #40 on: June 28, 2014, 08:43:37 AM »
Purely coincidence of course  ;-)

...but a week or two before the 7D was announced, there was a Canon multi-layer patent, which was apparently related to the dual layer one that appeared in the 7D as its metering sensor.

Keith, thanks for the great info as always, and I'm curious, how does the 7D metering sensor compare to the 1D X metering sensor?
the 7D licks balls and the 1Dx doesn't... well thats the short version ;)
APS-H Fanboy

candyman

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Re: Patent: Canon 5 Layer UV, IR, RGB Sensor
« Reply #41 on: June 28, 2014, 09:07:50 AM »
A patent showing a 5 layer image sensor from Canon has appeared. UV and IR layers help with color reproduction especially for skin tones.</p>


New Patent here new Sensor there
New Patent here new Sensor there
New Patent here new Sensor there

Canon it is time to give us a camera(s) with this new technologies, let us testing how good it is  ;D

Hah! I agree. Canon has a lot of really good patents for camera sensors...they just never seem to apply them. I'd love to have a 120mp APS-H that can do 9.5fps...I really wonder why they haven't stuffed that wonder into an actual DSLR and just trounced all the competition.


But if they do, then what is next? After that it will be difficult to come up again with something revolutionary.
Look at cars. They develop a concept car and over the next three models you see technology & design from that concept car incorporated in the new models.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2014, 09:57:01 AM by candyman »
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leGreve

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Re: Patent: Canon 5 Layer UV, IR, RGB Sensor
« Reply #42 on: June 28, 2014, 09:35:26 AM »
very interesting....

BTW, those posters who claim Canon has a lack of innovation... comments please?

Was it 7 or so years ago Sigma presented a 3-layered sensor that unfortunately didnt become a hit... Canon just added ir and uv and youcall that innovation..... 7 years later.
I suspect Canon maybe bought Sigmas patent and let it rot on the shelf.

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Re: Patent: Canon 5 Layer UV, IR, RGB Sensor
« Reply #42 on: June 28, 2014, 09:35:26 AM »

Dylan777

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Re: Patent: Canon 5 Layer UV, IR, RGB Sensor
« Reply #43 on: June 28, 2014, 10:01:50 AM »
A patent showing a 5 layer image sensor from Canon has appeared. UV and IR layers help with color reproduction especially for skin tones.</p>


New Patent here new Sensor there
New Patent here new Sensor there
New Patent here new Sensor there

Canon it is time to give us a camera(s) with this new technologies, let us testing how good it is  ;D

Hah! I agree. Canon has a lot of really good patents for camera sensors...they just never seem to apply them. I'd love to have a 120mp APS-H that can do 9.5fps...I really wonder why they haven't stuffed that wonder into an actual DSLR and just trounced all the competition.

Well if you were to read the canonrumors forums, you could be forgiven for thinking that even 24MP is too many (for an APS-C sensor) given how much extra noise is there and that 36MP makes working with raw files too slow to be practical. And you're suggesting that Canon bring out a camera with 4 times as many MP as the high in a current FF DSLR?? Are you just being facetious or are you being serious?

Let me put this another way. If Nikon or Sony debuted a camera next week with a 120MP APS-H sensor, what do you think the forums here would have to say about it?

I would say....another failures in Nikon lineup

jrista

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Re: Patent: Canon 5 Layer UV, IR, RGB Sensor
« Reply #44 on: June 28, 2014, 01:20:32 PM »
Don, this is going to be really a meaningfull innovation when an actual product will hit the shelves ... untill then this remains only a patent.

It still represents a commitment to R&D, which is important.  But not everything you throw at the wall sticks.

Aye. This is basically "'photoshopping' in a chip". :P Lately, it seems for many people and photographers who do portraiture, 'photoshopping' has kind of fallen to the wayside. Ultra crisp, ultra sharp, ultra detailed portraits, with all the blemishes, seems to be a growing "in" thing these days.

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Re: Patent: Canon 5 Layer UV, IR, RGB Sensor
« Reply #44 on: June 28, 2014, 01:20:32 PM »