September 30, 2014, 06:32:12 AM

Author Topic: Next official EF-M Lens  (Read 9172 times)

AvTvM

  • 1D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 981
    • View Profile
Re: Next official EF-M Lens
« Reply #30 on: July 15, 2014, 05:24:49 PM »
My experience is different. I wil NEVER by some weirdo IQ-diminishing lens-adapter with glass elements in it. No way.

I like the Canon EF-M/EF-Adapter. Due to AF issues with many other EF-lenses I use it primarily with STM lenses: EF 40/2.8 and EF-S 55-250. Both work very well. Handheld handling with the telezoom is not great, but still OK for me. Most of the time I use it on my highly versatile "Micro"-Tripod (Cullman Copter, € 29) ... more stable than even the largest gorilla-pod.
All settings including AF-points via touch screen, and shutter release using my old Canon RC-1 IR trigger which also works on my 7D. Bought a tiny Arca-compatible clamp and small Arca-compatible plates for both camera body and adapter foot, dirt-cheap, but really decent China-stuff, branded MENGS (via amazon).

Don#t have apic with EF-S 55-250 available, so here is one with EF-M 18-55. The Micro-Ballhead will just about hold the M plus EF-S 55-250 and adapter. It will definitely hold the new EF-M 55-200, easily.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Next official EF-M Lens
« Reply #30 on: July 15, 2014, 05:24:49 PM »

steyr

  • SX50 HS
  • **
  • Posts: 5
    • View Profile
Re: Next official EF-M Lens
« Reply #31 on: July 17, 2014, 02:04:15 AM »
For me, a speedbooster would be ideal, as long a IQ doesn't suffer unacceptably. Just imagine using a 35mm f2 IS. It would become equivalent to 1.4 IS in terms of light gathering! Or the 35mm 1.4L becomes f1.0. Correct me if I'm wrong, but because the FOV becomes similar to full frame, you can get shallower depth of field since you can frame closer to the subject.

DRR

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 161
    • View Profile
Re: Next official EF-M Lens
« Reply #32 on: July 17, 2014, 09:56:06 PM »
For me, a speedbooster would be ideal, as long a IQ doesn't suffer unacceptably. Just imagine using a 35mm f2 IS. It would become equivalent to 1.4 IS in terms of light gathering! Or the 35mm 1.4L becomes f1.0. Correct me if I'm wrong, but because the FOV becomes similar to full frame, you can get shallower depth of field since you can frame closer to the subject.

That is correct , you get shallower depth of field than without a speed booster.

However, remember, the speed of a lens is relative to sensor format to begin with. So while f/1.0 sounds great, you have to multiply by 1.6x in order to gain equivalency to full frame, so f/1.0 on the EOS M would give the equivalent DOF as a f/1.6 on a FF camera.

So what the speed booster accomplishes in both DOF and FOV, is it "undoes" the crop factor limitations of the smaller sensor. Lenses become wider and faster, but that counteracts the effect of using a "full frame" lens on a crop camera. The lens would perform similarly as it would on FF.

That is my understanding of it anyway.



ecka

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 648
  • Size matters ;)
    • View Profile
    • flickr
Re: Next official EF-M Lens
« Reply #33 on: July 18, 2014, 08:45:56 AM »
For me, a speedbooster would be ideal, as long a IQ doesn't suffer unacceptably. Just imagine using a 35mm f2 IS. It would become equivalent to 1.4 IS in terms of light gathering! Or the 35mm 1.4L becomes f1.0. Correct me if I'm wrong, but because the FOV becomes similar to full frame, you can get shallower depth of field since you can frame closer to the subject.

That is correct , you get shallower depth of field than without a speed booster.

However, remember, the speed of a lens is relative to sensor format to begin with. So while f/1.0 sounds great, you have to multiply by 1.6x in order to gain equivalency to full frame, so f/1.0 on the EOS M would give the equivalent DOF as a f/1.6 on a FF camera.

So what the speed booster accomplishes in both DOF and FOV, is it "undoes" the crop factor limitations of the smaller sensor. Lenses become wider and faster, but that counteracts the effect of using a "full frame" lens on a crop camera. The lens would perform similarly as it would on FF.

That is my understanding of it anyway.

Yes. It's almost like they are covering one lie with another. The speed booster doesn't need any focal length or aperture conversions, you'll just get a FF image with it on, while using a lower ISO (which is a subjective value anyway). It just takes the FF image and "squeezes" it into APSC sensor, that's all, no magic, no FL/aperture widening. Can't imagine why are they making it that much more confusing ... although, BS works great for justifying the high price :).
FF + primes !

Jamesy

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 719
    • View Profile
Re: Next official EF-M Lens
« Reply #34 on: July 18, 2014, 08:58:26 AM »
Admittedly I have not looked into Speedboosters but I wonder how they increase stops of lights passing through them? Changing perspective such as what an extender does I get but extenders degrade the amount of light rather than boost it.

rs

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 651
    • View Profile
Re: Next official EF-M Lens
« Reply #35 on: July 18, 2014, 09:24:19 AM »
Admittedly I have not looked into Speedboosters but I wonder how they increase stops of lights passing through them? Changing perspective such as what an extender does I get but extenders degrade the amount of light rather than boost it.
A teleconverter enlarges the image projected by the lens. This is much like moving a projecter further away from a projector screen - much of the image is missing from the screen, and even though the quantity of light coming out of the projector is no different, what is on the screen is bigger and dimmer.

Do it the other way only works if you're using a lens designed for a larger format. It telecompresses the light into a smaller imaging circle, producing a brighter, smaller image. Same concept as a projector throwing out too big an image for a screen, so you move it closer.

Obviously using a larger projector screen (read: sensor) in the first place would have captured the same quantity of light, even through the intensity per unit area on the screen (sensor) is lower.

Or a different way of looking at it is the focal length has changed due to a teleconverter or telecompressor, but the physical aperture still has the same diameter. Therefore the aperture ratio (f stop) has to change.

A telecompressor is just a way of using a smaller sensor to do most of what a larger sensor would do with that lens natively. Even though numbers all get shifted around (focal length, aperture ratio, ISO, but not physical aperture or shutter speed), the end result should be the same (presuming the telecompresor ratio is that same as the crop factor, and you tweak all the settings to create equivalence).
« Last Edit: July 18, 2014, 09:46:08 AM by rs »
5D II | 24-70 II | 70-200 II | 100L | 40 | Sigma 50/1.4 | 40D | 10-22 | 17-55 | 580 EX II | 1.4x TC II

scyrene

  • Canon 70D
  • ****
  • Posts: 308
    • View Profile
    • My Flickr feed
Re: Next official EF-M Lens
« Reply #36 on: July 18, 2014, 11:11:22 AM »
I'd love a small macro lens with reasonably long working distance. Would the M's design allow for an equivalent to the 100L macro or 180L in a much smaller package? I've found the M a really good macro camera, with both the 100 and the MP-E - most of the time I'm using Live View for macro work anyway (especially with the MP-E) so the lack of a viewfinder isn't a problem.

But these lenses are rather bulky on the small body.
5D mark III, 50D, 300D, EOS-M; Samyang 14mm f/2.8, 24-105L, MP-E, 85L II, 100L macro, 500L IS II, EF-M 18-55; 1.4xIII, 2x III + 2xII extenders; 600EX-RT; EF-M--EF adaptor.
Former lenses include: 70-200L f/4 non-IS, 200L 2.8, 400L 5.6

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Next official EF-M Lens
« Reply #36 on: July 18, 2014, 11:11:22 AM »

Jamesy

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 719
    • View Profile
Re: Next official EF-M Lens
« Reply #37 on: July 18, 2014, 11:16:05 AM »
Admittedly I have not looked into Speedboosters but I wonder how they increase stops of lights passing through them? Changing perspective such as what an extender does I get but extenders degrade the amount of light rather than boost it.
A teleconverter enlarges the image projected by the lens. This is much like moving a projecter further away from a projector screen - much of the image is missing from the screen, and even though the quantity of light coming out of the projector is no different, what is on the screen is bigger and dimmer.

Do it the other way only works if you're using a lens designed for a larger format. It telecompresses the light into a smaller imaging circle, producing a brighter, smaller image. Same concept as a projector throwing out too big an image for a screen, so you move it closer.

Obviously using a larger projector screen (read: sensor) in the first place would have captured the same quantity of light, even through the intensity per unit area on the screen (sensor) is lower.

Or a different way of looking at it is the focal length has changed due to a teleconverter or telecompressor, but the physical aperture still has the same diameter. Therefore the aperture ratio (f stop) has to change.

A telecompressor is just a way of using a smaller sensor to do most of what a larger sensor would do with that lens natively. Even though numbers all get shifted around (focal length, aperture ratio, ISO, but not physical aperture or shutter speed), the end result should be the same (presuming the telecompresor ratio is that same as the crop factor, and you tweak all the settings to create equivalence).
Much clearer now - thanks for this!

Haydn1971

  • 7D
  • *****
  • Posts: 422
    • View Profile
Re: Next official EF-M Lens
« Reply #38 on: July 20, 2014, 04:54:00 AM »
One slight frustration with the EOS-M system is the currently three different filter sizes across four lenses - is that really necessary ?
Regards, Haydn

:: View my photostream on Flickr, Canon EOS 6D, EOS M ,  16-35mm II, 24-70mm II, 70-300mm L, 135mm f2.0 L, 22mm f2.0, Lensbaby, EOS M adaptor, Cosina CT1G film SLR & 50mm f2.0 lens

Jamesy

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 719
    • View Profile
Re: Next official EF-M Lens
« Reply #39 on: July 20, 2014, 08:16:42 AM »
One slight frustration with the EOS-M system is the currently three different filter sizes across four lenses - is that really necessary ?
Agreed - this is certainly a pain. Even if you buy a CPL for the biggest lens you still would need a step-down ring for the others which adds bulk. I would imagine they made the lenses as small as possible to keep weight down hence the three sizes.

neuroanatomist

  • CR GEEK
  • ********
  • Posts: 14518
    • View Profile
Re: Next official EF-M Lens
« Reply #40 on: July 20, 2014, 09:09:43 AM »
One slight frustration with the EOS-M system is the currently three different filter sizes across four lenses - is that really necessary ?

I agree it's to keep lenses as small/light as possible.  Personally, I'm not too fussed about it.  If I'm going to use a CPL or ND, I'm likely setting up on a tripod...in which case, I wouldn't be using the M.
EOS 1D X, EOS M, and lots of lenses
______________________________
Flickr | TDP Profile/Gear List

bf

  • Power Shot G16
  • **
  • Posts: 21
    • View Profile
Re: Next official EF-M Lens
« Reply #41 on: July 30, 2014, 01:32:41 AM »
Al tough I wonder if "they" listen to our dreams, I'd like to have a nice fast native prime EF-M portrait lens. Something between 65-95mm F2 or faster! Like what the u3/4 guys use for street portraits in our APS-C system with much nicer bokeh!

EOS M

pablo

  • Guest
Re: Next official EF-M Lens
« Reply #42 on: July 30, 2014, 03:21:13 AM »
Canon shouldn't make any more specific ef-m lenses in my opinion, i say this as a huge fan of the m, eyebrows may raise, so here's my logic:

- The m is already well served with all feasable focal lengths.  you want more than 200mm? You don't want a pocket camera

- The lenses that exist are modestly priced, okay, lacking l's or super fast apertures, if you want those you really want an slr

- at the moment the m is effectively discontinued in the us and eu.  no m2. m marked down and selling out.  we need a new m model, perhaps with more external control etc to suit more advanced users also

- I think the key to the success of the m system is the gateway to the ef-s and ef system.  The ef-m basics are well covered.  I would like to see a lower cost canon branded adaptor, perhaps ef-s only, and made of plastic (strong enough to handle the existing ef-s lenses, all consumer grade) say for £30 rather than £100' or even free in the box...., if folk want access to ef then let them pay more, or give then a deal when buying their mX

I would guess that the majority of folk in eu or us are buying an m to augment their eos system.

- i would rather see canon get back to making more lower cost primes, if nikon can make a g grade 35mm f2 then why can't canon (anymore) the old 24 28 and 35 were super, compact, cheap, perfect for ff ef, users, accesable to the rebel market, and adaptable to the m (and still compact, even with adaptor)

At this exact moment in time, the m looks like a dead end in western markets.  Don't get me wrong, I love mine (bought a second yesterday) but I feel its greatest success will be acheived as a gateway camera to an established and well serviced system (upper hand over nex, m43, nx etc)

The m system has enough of it's own lenses that are specific to the m, the real value for me lies in adaptability, and better budget offerings from Canon, which they did once, which nikon can do, and which would enliven the health if the ef system as a whole and have a trickle down for the m.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Next official EF-M Lens
« Reply #42 on: July 30, 2014, 03:21:13 AM »

crashpc

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 65
    • View Profile
Re: Next official EF-M Lens
« Reply #43 on: July 30, 2014, 04:01:24 AM »
I do agree on longer focal lenghts, and bigger lenses, but there is still something to do, and as you mentioned, it lags especially at primes. I want f/1.8 M primes! Small 12mm, 32mm and 50mm primes. (35,50 and 80mm FLs).   

Jamesy

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 719
    • View Profile
Re: Next official EF-M Lens
« Reply #44 on: July 30, 2014, 06:23:57 AM »
I do agree on longer focal lenghts, and bigger lenses, but there is still something to do, and as you mentioned, it lags especially at primes. I want f/1.8 M primes! Small 12mm, 32mm and 50mm primes. (35,50 and 80mm FLs).
Agreed. Something like a Fuji 56/1.2 equivalent would round this out as a nice compact portrait kit. The kit lens has you at 5.6 when at 55mm - making the next town in focus ;)

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Next official EF-M Lens
« Reply #44 on: July 30, 2014, 06:23:57 AM »