July 23, 2014, 12:04:53 AM

Author Topic: Microsoft and Canon Sign Patent Cross-Licensing Agreement  (Read 4314 times)

LDS

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Re: Microsoft and Canon Sign Patent Cross-Licensing Agreement
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2014, 04:59:31 AM »
Its not native in Windows, you must install the Microsoft or other codec, and it does not automatically update.  I'd like native support that updated automatically when new codecs were available.
"Native" and "preinstalled" are two different things. Those codecs are not pre-installed, but they are fully native codecs for the Windows Imaging Component (WIC) which is the image management framework in Windows. I do not know wny they are not offered as optional components in Windows Update, or automatically updated, it may also depends on your Windows Update settings and if you have Windows Live installed or not.

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Re: Microsoft and Canon Sign Patent Cross-Licensing Agreement
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2014, 04:59:31 AM »

c.d.embrey

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Re: Microsoft and Canon Sign Patent Cross-Licensing Agreement
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2014, 09:59:34 AM »
I've been a Windoz hater for over 20 years. The reason I did not buy a Nokia Lumia 930 was, you guessed it, Windoz Phone 8. BTW I use a 2006 LG flip-phone, so please don't call me an Apple fanboy :)

If a Canon camera comes along that I'd normally buy. But it uses MicroSoft code, I'll have to pass. Back in the day, when I did HTML coding (by hand), I learned to h8t MS, and their non-standard (and buggy) Windoz Explorer. Been there, done that and I ain't going back :( YMMV.


preppyak

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Re: Microsoft and Canon Sign Patent Cross-Licensing Agreement
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2014, 10:53:59 AM »
As awful as a lot of Microsoft software is, this is pretty much a win-win. Canon doesnt have to use any of Microsoft's patents if they don't want (and vice versa), but, this means they dont have to engineer their own solutions that one of the largest tech companies in the world has already solved.

Means less money needed on R&D for those issues and more money dedicated towards things Microsoft cant solve (lenses, sensors, etc).

If Canon and Microsoft had merged as companies, it'd be awful for software/UI reasons...but patent sharing is very different

Ruined

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Re: Microsoft and Canon Sign Patent Cross-Licensing Agreement
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2014, 12:51:41 PM »
Windows Phone 8.1 is awesome, not awful.  It manages to be efficient, safe, yet diverse and powerful. Basically the best of iOS and Android combined. iOS = efficient and secure but no diversity with only one brand and two models; Android = lots of diversity but inefficient and insecure.

If you haven't given it a chance you should, and I look forward to phones with Canon tech in them.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2014, 12:53:37 PM by Ruined »

c.d.embrey

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Re: Microsoft and Canon Sign Patent Cross-Licensing Agreement
« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2014, 01:42:20 PM »
... this means they dont have to engineer their own solutions that one of the largest tech companies in the world has already solved.



Solved ??? seems to me FUBARed is more likely ;)

Here's a fun read on Military Slang  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FUBAR#FUBAR

LDS

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Re: Microsoft and Canon Sign Patent Cross-Licensing Agreement
« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2014, 04:59:51 PM »
I've been a Windoz hater for over 20 years. The reason I did not buy a Nokia Lumia 930 was, you guessed it, Windoz Phone 8. BTW I use a 2006 LG flip-phone, so please don't call me an Apple fanboy :)

If a Canon camera comes along that I'd normally buy. But it uses MicroSoft code, I'll have to pass. Back in the day, when I did HTML coding (by hand), I learned to h8t MS, and their non-standard (and buggy) Windoz Explorer. Been there, done that and I ain't going back :( YMMV.

Never understood why non Windows keyboard input is usually so full of childish mistakes...

LDS

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Re: Microsoft and Canon Sign Patent Cross-Licensing Agreement
« Reply #21 on: July 03, 2014, 05:07:15 PM »
As awful as a lot of Microsoft software is, this is pretty much a win-win. Canon doesnt have to use any

Patent and software are two different things. You can have a very valuable patent and a dreadful implementation, or even no implementation at all. But with a patent agreement you can do your own implementation, which can be better than the original, without any risk of litigation. That means money flows to the R&D departments and not to lawyers, the latter usually improve their life but not products.

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Re: Microsoft and Canon Sign Patent Cross-Licensing Agreement
« Reply #21 on: July 03, 2014, 05:07:15 PM »

jrista

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Re: Microsoft and Canon Sign Patent Cross-Licensing Agreement
« Reply #22 on: July 03, 2014, 10:54:23 PM »
I've been a Windoz hater for over 20 years. The reason I did not buy a Nokia Lumia 930 was, you guessed it, Windoz Phone 8. BTW I use a 2006 LG flip-phone, so please don't call me an Apple fanboy :)

If a Canon camera comes along that I'd normally buy. But it uses MicroSoft code, I'll have to pass. Back in the day, when I did HTML coding (by hand), I learned to h8t MS, and their non-standard (and buggy) Windoz Explorer. Been there, done that and I ain't going back :( YMMV.

Your living in a past 20 years old, now. Microsoft and Windows have changed CONSIDERABLY from their 90's and early 2000's phase. The products Microsoft sells today are vastly superior to what they used to be, and deserving of a little more respect than 20-year old unfounded hate.

I've been using Microsoft products since the early 90's, and I've been writing software for the Microsoft platforms for about the same amount of time. (I also develop software for other platforms, in the 90's I did Java, C/C++ on Linux. Today I'm heavily JavaScript/HTML5/CSS3 based...web platform and JS stack, and I love it...so it isn't like I'm a Microsoft-only die-hard here...I've gotten around.) I've also been using linux/unix since that period, and I've had more than enough encounters with Macs and iOS. There is no perfect platform, there is no one platform that stands out leagues above the rest. They all have their pros and cons, they all have their bugs, and they all have their shining points. Having used enough Apple products over the years, they are the farthest thing from flawless. I remember generations of iPhones that excelled at everything but being a phone. I remember experiencing malware issues on multiple versions of MacOS. I remember many hardware issues that required a visit to the Apple store (and I know for a fact I'm not the only one...that's one of the PRIMARY uses of Apple stores, for their Apple Care.) I've experienced more than enough linux over the years. While it is no doubt an incredibly powerful and flexible OS, that's pretty much all it is...power and flexibility. That kind of power and flexibility gets in the way of productivity at times, and certainly puts it out of reach of the general populace unless it's HEAVILY glossed over with a very iOS or Windows like UI (i.e. Android...and anyone who's used Android phones knows how buggy and shoddily built they are...their only saving grace is their customizability and open app platform.)

I'm the first to admit Microsoft had a couple phases where their products were RIDDLED with bugs and security flaws. I remember the early NT days, and I utterly LOATHED them. I enjoyed Windows 95 and 98, hated ME. I loved XP, and personally never had any issues with Vista. Windows 7 is the worlds most popular consumer-grade operating system for good reason. Today, Microsoft is one of the most secure OS and enterprise software developers on the planet, their first-party products are just as refined as the competitions, and third-party product compatibility is better on Windows than any other platform.

Might want to poke your head up and smell the winds of change every once in a while. :P
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Grumbaki

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Re: Microsoft and Canon Sign Patent Cross-Licensing Agreement
« Reply #23 on: July 03, 2014, 11:13:23 PM »
Your living in a past 20 years old, now. Microsoft and Windows have changed CONSIDERABLY from their 90's and early 2000's phase.

Was vista 20 years ago?  :P Not starting an argument, just poking the bear  ;D

As awful as a lot of Microsoft software is, this is pretty much a win-win. Canon doesnt have to use any

Patent and software are two different things. You can have a very valuable patent and a dreadful implementation, or even no implementation at all. But with a patent agreement you can do your own implementation, which can be better than the original, without any risk of litigation. That means money flows to the R&D departments and not to lawyers, the latter usually improve their life but not products.

 As a lawyer I take offence but this is the truest post since the begining of the thread.

jrista

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Re: Microsoft and Canon Sign Patent Cross-Licensing Agreement
« Reply #24 on: July 04, 2014, 12:41:08 AM »
Your living in a past 20 years old, now. Microsoft and Windows have changed CONSIDERABLY from their 90's and early 2000's phase.

Was vista 20 years ago?  :P Not starting an argument, just poking the bear  ;D

Vista itself wasn't bad. It ran quite fine. The debacle with Vista was that Microsoft and vendors weren't on the ball BEFORE it's release to ensure that the OS had an adequate driver base, for both existing and new hardware. The initial rash of hate blogs on Windows Vista were all related to the driver issues. From there, the MS haters just piled on, and did everything they could to rip the OS to pieces. (If you make a concerted effort to find something wrong with...anything...you'll find something wrong...and then something else, and then something else...we aren't perfect, nor are our creations...I could go on for days about the things that went wrong with all my apple devices, including my Apple CinemaDisplay that keeps flipping out on me). It seems to be human nature to hate change, and to pile on hate when it's flying fast and furious...and thus, the Vista death spiral. If it hadn't been for the driver issues, the hate ball wouldn't have ever started rolling, and Vista would have been a fine, respected OS.

Windows 8 is also hated, but that's just hater's hating. Windows 8 has so far been an extremely stable, fast, and highly compatible update to Windows 7. It still has the same old desktop (I use the desktop every single day, it's no different than in Windows 7, except it's all flat now instead of slightly 3D and glassy...I prefer flat and simple.) Windows 8 boots in seconds, it has a significantly smaller memory footprint, it is more energy efficient, and it is compatible with EVERYTHING (I've run Windows 8 on all my computers here, which include several laptops, a couple high powered desktops, a media center PC, and some older bits and pieces of hardware I've had floating around for the better part of a decade and a half.)

And yet, people still hate it. I think a lot of that is change...people don't like change if they didn't ask for it, and replacing the start "menu" with a start "screen" just seemed to piss a lot of people off. There is nothing wrong with Windows 8 itself, just like there was nothing wrong with Windows Vista. Yet, the haters piled on. All it took was someone, somewhere, to B&M about something, and a whole horde of decades-old Microsoft/Windows haters were just waiting in the wings to get the hate ball rolling again. The driver debacle with Vista was a real thing, an honest problem, but it was resolved pretty quickly, and once it was resolved, there really weren't any true issues with the OS. The Windows 8 start screen isn't a problem. For one, if you wanted the start menu back, free or very very cheap utilities would restore it...so it really wasn't a problem. There were also free and very very cheap utilities to boot right to the desktop in the original Windows 8, so again, not really a problem. But still the hate. Not just hate, but vehement hate. Nasty, mean, angry hate.

People just like to hate on Microsoft, even when they've done good. Windows 8 is the only truly universal platform that runs multiple devices, in multiple operating modes, simultaneously. Not even Apple has topped that, and I don't think they will. I purchased an original Surface Pro, because I'd been waiting for years to be able to have a fully touch-capable device for when I'm out roaming around, while not actually having to leave my full Windows desktop capabilities at home. I was probably one of the first people using Lightroom, Photoshop and EOS Utility on a Windows 8 tablet, tethered to my Canon 7D, out in the mountains, taking landscape photos and processing them with a pressure sensitive pen on the spot with a fully featured photo editing software (not some limited or otherwise gimped "app" as is the case on iPad.)

I think Microsoft has moved well past the age where they were deserving of a hateful bad rap. It's been the better part of two decades since their monopolistic/anti-trust issues. It's been over seven years since Vista, Windows 7 is one of the most reliable and heavily used operating systems on the planet, (as was Win XP before), etc. etc. If your still holding a grudge for things Microsoft made you mad about in the 90's...I'd say the issue lies somewhere other than Microsoft or it's products...holding grudges like that ain't good for the health. :P
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Arctic Photo

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Re: Microsoft and Canon Sign Patent Cross-Licensing Agreement
« Reply #25 on: July 04, 2014, 02:43:25 AM »
Does this mean we will have to reboot the camera efter every picture we take?

LDS

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Re: Microsoft and Canon Sign Patent Cross-Licensing Agreement
« Reply #26 on: July 04, 2014, 05:38:51 AM »
Does this mean we will have to reboot the camera efter every picture we take?

AFAIK CRTL-ALT-DEL was never patented - it was left free for anybody to use, even outsisde Windows  :D

Anyway re-read the agreement - Canon didn't license MS software - say WP8 to install on some Canon cameras. Canon licensed MS patents and MS licensed Canon patents. It's a move that avoid costly litigations (like the one Apple, Samsung, Google and Oracle are fighting) and let product interoperate better. For example Canon in its DPP software can take advantage of any format, algorithm or UI element patented by MS, and MS may will be able to use some of the Canon patents in its Lumia phones, for example, with no need to attempt reverse engineering of protocols (i.e for camerta tethering) or the like - look at how for example refusing to license EF specifications from Canon forces some lens brands to risk incompatibilities through reverse engineering or renouncing to AF support wholly.

danski0224

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Re: Microsoft and Canon Sign Patent Cross-Licensing Agreement
« Reply #27 on: July 04, 2014, 07:07:19 AM »
People just like to hate on Microsoft, even when they've done good. Windows 8 is the only truly universal platform that runs multiple devices, in multiple operating modes, simultaneously. Not even Apple has topped that, and I don't think they will. I purchased an original Surface Pro, because I'd been waiting for years to be able to have a fully touch-capable device for when I'm out roaming around, while not actually having to leave my full Windows desktop capabilities at home. I was probably one of the first people using Lightroom, Photoshop and EOS Utility on a Windows 8 tablet, tethered to my Canon 7D, out in the mountains, taking landscape photos and processing them with a pressure sensitive pen on the spot with a fully featured photo editing software (not some limited or otherwise gimped "app" as is the case on iPad.)

I also think a lot of people miss the magnitude of this.

W8 is essentially the same interface across a phone, tablet/laptop and desktop PC.

You don't have a bunch of stuff that no longer works with OS upgrades like the fruity side. Proprietary connectors that get changed every other generation so the accessories no longer work...

If the top Nokia Lumia phone was available on T-Mobile instead of AT&T, I would have got one. Big mistake on Nokia's part.

I think MS dropped the ball with the "RT" version of the Surface.

I would also immensley prefer the iPad 4:3 screen on a Surface.   

I'll grant that the W8 interface is different from XP and 7. I like W8 on a touchscreen but my desktop isn't touch, so I'm a little leery of setting it up. My computer has an included upgrade to W8.1 if I decide to try it.

I have had only 2 issue with my older hardware not working in W8, and as far as I can tell, it stems from the manufacturer no longer supporting the product- so not the fault of MS. Everything else I have works. Even downloading Epson 3800 drivers to a Surface Pro2.

Any insights on using W8 in a non-touch environment?
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Re: Microsoft and Canon Sign Patent Cross-Licensing Agreement
« Reply #27 on: July 04, 2014, 07:07:19 AM »

Mika

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Re: Microsoft and Canon Sign Patent Cross-Licensing Agreement
« Reply #28 on: July 04, 2014, 07:50:07 AM »
Well apparently, Microsoft wants to have some Canon tech in their imaging stuff now. Unfortunately, I guess nobody told them that it's not exactly the same thing to transfer from system camera level imaging to mobile imaging. It does make me wonder whether when Nokia imploded the people who really knew the details of Pureview technology jumped ship... As far as I know, Nokia lost a ton of talent at the moment when Windows strategy was announced.

Anyways, Microsoft hate is not because Windows 8 didn't work, or had underlying issues. The hate is because Microsoft doesn't listen to customers or just does business moves that people see are going to cost them more in the long run. And that they are trying to push their monopolistic software attitude to other business areas where they have no foothold. Or backstabbing their hardware buddies with releasing Surface to begin with.

Vista with Office updates that forced non-customizable Ribbon was bad enough, and on top of that, the companies had to pay to get people on courses how to use 20 year old tools again.

Now, add another Office change (2010), the UI didn't remain constant, although I think it was a general improvement to 2007. Add on Windows 8 screwing the operating system UI again with Microsoft marketing trying to push it as a "vast improvement" where real world experience was completely different. Especially when beta testers WARNED the company about this.

It doesn't help that Windows 8.1 removes a part of the forced stupidity (though I wouldn't cross my fingers), the version name is already tainted. It has to be Windows 9 and an attitude change to recover from this. The point is, if the most downloaded third-party application is Classic Shell, the UI was ****ed to begin with. Note that this holds for the business side experience when using desktops with large screens.

Unfortunately, Microsoft also started to push for cloud integration in Office, and at this part of the world, there's not a lot of businesses who would like to upload critical information to servers based in the US given the current legislation that can confiscate the data at any point. I'm pretty sure Microsoft's plan is to start forcing cloud services down on our throats gradually to charge the usage basis for monthly services, and that I don't want.

I also definitely don't like the Microsoft store integration of the computer UI, and from what it seems, neither did the entertainment industry. Ask how bad it had to be if Valve switched on to developing their own operating system!

This is, of course, from my point of view. If you ask me, Windows 8 could've worked had the preferred UI been a simple question in the beginning. Ribbon would work better if it was customizable. Microsoft's name would look better if it wasn't seen nowadays as a potential competitor with their customers and so on.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2014, 07:52:59 AM by Mika »

Ruined

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Re: Microsoft and Canon Sign Patent Cross-Licensing Agreement
« Reply #29 on: July 04, 2014, 11:00:41 AM »
Windows 8 is a fantastic and necessary evolution of Windows.  It is unpopular the same reason Windows Vista was unpopular - it is a deviation from the norm that requires a new approach to developing programs and users learning a new interface.

Windows 8 is the biggest transition Windows has ever made since DOS > Windows.  But, it is a needed transition.  Windows 7 is terrible on touch screens most of the UI elements are simply too small for fingers.  Ironically, many trumpeting the juggernaut called Windows 7 forget that is essentially a spit-shined retool of Vista which was formerly the least popular iteration of Windows.  Also recall that in the DOS to Windows transition, Windows version 3.1 was the first version that truly got support of the masses. Windows XP was eons more popular than the Windows 2000 it was based on. The bottom line is, MS' initial groundbreaking OS revisions have never been popular as people need to time to adapt before they like it, and Microsoft needs time to perfect the changes based on user feedback; Windows 9 will get similar support Windows 7 did, as it is the follow-up revisions that always get the most user support.

Developing a unified OS is necessary at this point for Microsoft to combat iOS and Android, as people clearly want that level of common integration with their computing devices.  Windows 8 was not perfect but given the radical departure necessary to compete with touchscreens, they did a fine job.  Now it is just a matter of gradually retooling it until it meets the needs of everyone best.  While Desktop users are important, tablets and phones are the growth market and thus it makes sense that MS' prioritized tablets and phones.  Now with that part nearing completion, doing more for desktop is an option.  The 'ribbon' UI you mention is great for mice, but again too small for fingers.

Regarding Valve/Steam, it has nothing to do with the quality of Windows 8 UI. Regardless of what Valve claims, it all boils down to money.  Valve would have less direct control over Steam in the Windows store, and might even have to pay Microsoft to be in the store; further, most Steam games are x86 and not touch friendly, which is fundamentally incompatible with the majority of tablets out there using the store.  Thus, it is in Valve's best interest to encourage users NOT to buy Windows 8 as it will put them down the path of touchscreens and the Windows Store where Valve will have incredible difficulty competing.  Valve needs people to stick with x86, keyboard and mouse - and if that fails, they developed their own OS platform to keep people hooked in.  The fact Valve is so rattled speaks to Microsoft's potential eventual dominance with the Windows Store.

Cloud is the future whether you like it or not.  Microsoft recently added very strong encryption to their cloud services, giving businesses more peace of mind.  It does not have to be the place all businesses do all of their business, but it will likely evolve into the place most businesses do most of their business.

Microsoft is going in the right direction, but it will take some time for the herculean task of unifying desktop and mobile happily together to be finished.  But, Microsoft has always been the turtle that wins the race.  It may take some time, but I think they will eventually end up on top once they have gotten their ducks in a row.  But, it will take time.

Meanwhile, Windows Phone 8.1 offers the hardware variety of Android with the ease of use, security, and efficiency of iOS.   It is a definite winner for those who give it a chance, but many will slag off on it without even giving it a fair shake.  This is compounded by mobile contracts and investments in other mobile ecosystems.  But, in time, I believe Windows Phone will be just as popular as its competitors, if not moreso.

I look forward to the combination of Nokia and Canon - I expect some truly potent imaging potential in future Nokia products as a result, and perhaps even an LTE Canon product at some point.  The Lumia 1020 was already a beast in the imaging department, with Canon's patents who knows what amazing feats its successor will accomplish.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2014, 11:16:27 AM by Ruined »

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Re: Microsoft and Canon Sign Patent Cross-Licensing Agreement
« Reply #29 on: July 04, 2014, 11:00:41 AM »