October 24, 2014, 05:59:23 AM

Author Topic: Camera setup for dental clinic  (Read 3389 times)

KitsVancouver

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Re: Camera setup for dental clinic
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2014, 03:55:13 AM »
Hello guys, I hope you all are doing great. I need a camera+macro lens+macro ring combo to photograph teeth and other stuff in the mouth in dental patients. So, I have two options and I need your help.

1. I have an old 5di which I can use in the clinic. But I need macro lens and macro flash. For a lens, I'm deciding between 100mm f2.8L and non-L. How good is the quality of the non-L lens, which is much cheaper than L one? What macro ring would you recommend besides the one Canon makes ($500)?

2. Get a crop camera, 60mm f2.8 EF-S and macro ring. How good is 60mm f2.8 lens?

I don't need top quality of the pictures, but it should be at least very good. All other people in the clinic use Nikon :o

Thanks!

Just noticed your user name.  I'm assuming you're a periodontist in which case, you're looking at mostly cosmetic.   Definitely get the 100L.  You might want to consider getting a tripod but that could scare some of your patients. 

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Re: Camera setup for dental clinic
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2014, 03:55:13 AM »

seekn

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Re: Camera setup for dental clinic
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2014, 06:26:13 AM »
Hey I'm a general dentist, I use Canon outside the office and Nikon in the office so my setup will be different. What I can tell you is that you don't really need a great body. I bought an entry level Nikon and it works just fine - you really need a good lens and ringflash. I use the 100 mm macro because it gives you a farther focal distance than the 60 I believe so you are not up in the patient's face.
Also I bump the ISO up a lot - around 1600 (a lot for the cheap Nikon) so that I can at least get a f5.6 aperture range - enough to get a few teeth in focus.
I use a single point focus and everything seems to work out fine. Just make sure you point it at an area of high conrast - the contact area, or margin is often a good focal spot.
I also use the operatory light to give me the extra lighting I need in the posterior, not too direct though to cause a blowout.
Most dental images are for web use only so resolution and  grain are not that much of a concern. There really is no need for a tripod or anything.
Hope this helps.

Sabaki

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Re: Camera setup for dental clinic
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2014, 07:29:42 AM »
Canon EF 100mm Macro (non L) with the MR-14EX ringflash

The L is a better lens but your use is not that of a macro fundi. And you'll need the 67C macro adaptor which is further expense too

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Hillsilly

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Re: Camera setup for dental clinic
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2014, 08:28:21 AM »
They used the older 100mm macros, original or USM.  They are fine for his purpose, but slow to focus at short distances.

I've got the original 100mm macro (ie non USM).  It is a good sharp lens.  But focusing at close distances is very, very painful - it likes to leisurely hunt and hunt and hunt.   I typically keep mine on manual focus.  But if you can pick a good one up cheap and don't need snappy focusing speed, you won't be disappointed with the image quality.
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spacetimeroger

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Re: Camera setup for dental clinic
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2014, 10:27:00 AM »
They used the older 100mm macros, original or USM.  They are fine for his purpose, but slow to focus at short distances.

I've got the original 100mm macro (ie non USM).  It is a good sharp lens.  But focusing at close distances is very, very painful - it likes to leisurely hunt and hunt and hunt.   I typically keep mine on manual focus.  But if you can pick a good one up cheap and don't need snappy focusing speed, you won't be disappointed with the image quality.

re: the original (non USM) 100mm macro - that's one of the sharpest lenses I've ever used, although the AF is not terribly speedy. From what I understand, the USM version is optically the same. My father was/is a dentist, and I remember all of this stuff growing up (He used the 100mm non USM macro on an EOS-1 film body) The first camera I really remember w/regards to dental photography was the Yashica Dental Eye II.
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NancyP

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Re: Camera setup for dental clinic
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2014, 11:14:56 AM »
I have the 60D plus EF-S 60mm f/2.8, and this is a good combination for general macro (I am not a dentist, I am a pathologist, so my specimens are sitting on a copy stand - I don't need image stabilization: IS, OS, VC are the brand terms for stabilization). For hand-held, the Canon 100mm f/2.8 L IS ($1,050.00)  may be a good choice due to the IS, and also consider third party dedicated 1:1-capable macro lenses with IS in the 90-150mm range, Sigma 105mm f/2.8 OS ($670.00) and Tamron 90mm f/2.8 VC($750.00). Do the patients object to flash? Your camera sensor will be 11 to 12 inches from the patient, with the lens being about 5" long, the front of the lens will be 6" to 7" from the patient's face for 1:1 image (you may not need 1:1 for an APS-C camera, 1:2 may be fine). If this is too cramped for you, go to the Sigma 150mm f/2.8 OS, wihich gives you 9" between front of lens and patient for 1:1. The 90-105mm lenses are lighter weight. By all means skip the 180 mm macros, which are quite heavy and rather intimidating - I have the Canon 180mm f/3.5L, and it is a beast.

For lighting, I shall defer to the dentists. A ring light would seem like the obvious choice. There's lots of different choices. The ceiling light or a headlamp would serve as a necessary angle fill light. Get a store-bought solution. Insect/flower/coin macrophotographers often custom build a flash diffuser from an existing hot-shoe flash , but you shouldn't, because you want a professional appearing flash rig, not one made out of a Pringles can.

mackguyver

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Re: Camera setup for dental clinic
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2014, 11:44:45 AM »
By all means skip the 180 mm macros, which are quite heavy and rather intimidating - I have the Canon 180mm f/3.5L, and it is a beast.
Did you know that the 180mm f/3.5L was actually designed for dentists and supposedly is available in Japan as a kit with the lens, macro ring adapter, and MR-14EX II Macro Ring Lite?

From CPN:
"Originally designed for dentists, the 180mm focal length allows them to get life-size magnification of a patient’s teeth without having to get right into their mouth."

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Re: Camera setup for dental clinic
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2014, 11:44:45 AM »

Perio

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Re: Camera setup for dental clinic
« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2014, 08:19:48 PM »
Thanks for all your suggestions, guys! I talked to current residents today, and most of them use crop Nikon bodies with Nikon 105 micro/macro lens and a macro ring flash. Sorry for a silly question, but would 100mm L macro lens fit into a Canon's crop body, like 7d or 70d?

Please let me know if anybody has a good copy of 100L.



Perio

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Re: Camera setup for dental clinic
« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2014, 08:24:19 PM »
I'm thinking maybe at some point we should vote for having a buy/sell forum for CR members, like on fredmiranda? Not sure whether admin would want that though  :)

Vivid Color

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Re: Camera setup for dental clinic
« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2014, 09:11:20 PM »
Thanks for all your suggestions, guys! I talked to current residents today, and most of them use crop Nikon bodies with Nikon 105 micro/macro lens and a macro ring flash. Sorry for a silly question, but would 100mm L macro lens fit into a Canon's crop body, like 7d or 70d?

Please let me know if anybody has a good copy of 100L.

Yes, you may put a 100 mm L macro lens on a Canon crop body.

I have a fantastically sharp copy of the 100 mm L macro but it's not for sale. :)

Daniel 78d

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Re: Camera setup for dental clinic
« Reply #25 on: July 16, 2014, 09:18:46 PM »
The best choice will probably be the rebel t3i dental kit from b&h. It comes with a t3i that has an articulated screen, a 60mm macro and a ring flash. I can't find a way to connect a shortcut but I just looked at it.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2014, 09:41:17 PM by Daniel 78d »
1dx, 7d, 100 2.8l macro, 24-70 f/4l, 16-35 f/4l, 40 2.8 pancake, 50 1.8 original, ef-s 10-18

KitsVancouver

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Re: Camera setup for dental clinic
« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2014, 12:50:56 AM »
Thanks for all your suggestions, guys! I talked to current residents today, and most of them use crop Nikon bodies with Nikon 105 micro/macro lens and a macro ring flash. Sorry for a silly question, but would 100mm L macro lens fit into a Canon's crop body, like 7d or 70d?

Please let me know if anybody has a good copy of 100L.

They probably have crop bodies because no one told them the difference between crop and FF. 

Yes, the 100L will fit on any Canon body with an EF mount.  It will fit on both the 7D and the 70D.  The crop body does give you some more working distance. 

If you are going to use the camera for photos other than dental, then you should consider a FF body. 

I wouldn't look at cost too much as you can write off all this gear. 

tolusina

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Re: Camera setup for dental clinic
« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2014, 12:11:48 PM »
...They probably have crop bodies because no one told them the difference between crop and FF....

.....I wouldn't look at cost too much as you can write off all this gear.
Yes, this ^^.
---
I'll start by stating that I know absolutely nothing about medical imaging.
I do know that I'd really prefer my medical professional not make surgical decisions based on photographs with fun house mirror type distortions.
To avoid visual compression or fish eye effects one must use a near normal or natural focal length, that natural or normal focal length being one that's as close as possible the sensor's (or film's) diagonal.
 
I looked up specs for a 7D that uses a typically sized Canon 1.6 crop factor sensor with dimensions of 22.3 x 14.9 mm, diagonal of that sensor is approximately 27mm.
I'm unaware of any macro lenses with a focal length near 27mm.
 
Diagonal of a full frame 36 x 24mm sensor is approximately 43mm.

On a B&H listing of Canon mount macro lenses

there is a Canon EF 50mm f/2.5 Compact Macro Lens

a Sigma Normal 50mm f/2.8 EX DG Macro Autofocus Lens

and a Canon MP-E 65mm f/2.8 1-5x Macro Photo Lens

All with focal lengths fairly close to the 43mm full frame diagonal, for sure a lot closer to the 43mm full frame diagonal than the 27mm crop diagonal.
 - - -
Note that the Canon EF-S 60mm f/2.8 Macro USM Lens and the Tamron G005 SP AF60mm f/2.0 Di II LD 1:1 Macro Lens are both for APS-C crop sensor bodies and cannot be used on full frame bodies.
- - -
Regarding concerns about how close to a patient you'll need to be with these shorter focal lengths, um, you will soon be close enough as to be in the patient's mouth when actually working, is closeness of a camera really relevant?
 
Regarding LED ring lights, I've made and used several. As they were not real bright, a steady camera and subject are both helpful. They did indeed cast even and mostly shadowless light.
Being continuous light, you get a very good idea what your photo will look like through the finder or live view before triggering the shutter unlike with flash where you find out after.
This might be a consideration towards minimizing patient discomfort by avoiding multiple flash discharges as you dial in the exposure.
Then too, likely, once you've a small bit of experience you'll know what settings work and will need but a single flash exposure.

40 on 6

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Re: Camera setup for dental clinic
« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2014, 12:11:48 PM »

Perio

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Re: Camera setup for dental clinic
« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2014, 09:00:47 PM »
It's always like that  :) let me ask you a question. I've heard that normally functioning 100L should not make any sound while IS is working. Is that true? Does your copy make any sound when you try to focus? Thanks!

Thanks for all your suggestions, guys! I talked to current residents today, and most of them use crop Nikon bodies with Nikon 105 micro/macro lens and a macro ring flash. Sorry for a silly question, but would 100mm L macro lens fit into a Canon's crop body, like 7d or 70d?

Please let me know if anybody has a good copy of 100L.

Yes, you may put a 100 mm L macro lens on a Canon crop body.

I have a fantastically sharp copy of the 100 mm L macro but it's not for sale. :)

Perio

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Re: Camera setup for dental clinic
« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2014, 09:04:24 PM »
Thanks for the info, mackguyver, I didn't know that. I just looked at the specs, and 180L is almost twice as heavy as 100L (~1100g vs. 650g). Do you know how much more bulky 180L is as compared to 100L?
 
By all means skip the 180 mm macros, which are quite heavy and rather intimidating - I have the Canon 180mm f/3.5L, and it is a beast.
Did you know that the 180mm f/3.5L was actually designed for dentists and supposedly is available in Japan as a kit with the lens, macro ring adapter, and MR-14EX II Macro Ring Lite?

From CPN:
"Originally designed for dentists, the 180mm focal length allows them to get life-size magnification of a patient’s teeth without having to get right into their mouth."

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Re: Camera setup for dental clinic
« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2014, 09:04:24 PM »