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Author Topic: Next Canon Flashes With Exposure Based on Color Temperature?  (Read 9804 times)

branden

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Re: Next Canon Flashes With Exposure Based on Color Temperature?
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2011, 12:56:48 PM »
I don't think they can get away with charging more than they already are. The prices of the 580EXII are already in the range of (cheap) monolights, and I think they would lose sales to 3rd party studio lighting companies if they tried to push prices up higher. For portable lighting the speedlights are great, but they're also selling to people who use them to double as quick & easy & ultra-portable staged setups.

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Re: Next Canon Flashes With Exposure Based on Color Temperature?
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2011, 12:56:48 PM »

LeTiger

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Re: Next Canon Flashes With Exposure Based on Color Temperature?
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2011, 04:20:22 PM »
Could we please stop mis-using the word "quantum" to describe a precipitable change in current-to-future technology?

It makes the post appear as written by someone who just doesn't understand how blisteringly small a quantum leap really is...

Cheers,


dougkerr

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Re: Next Canon Flashes With Exposure Based on Color Temperature?
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2011, 05:34:35 PM »
The basic discussion in the cr report makes no sense to me. I fail to see the connection between color temperature and "exposure".

We may be suffering here from some "loss in translation".

In any case, Canon Speedlite flash units have for some time (I believe from the 580EX onward) reported to the body an estimate of the color temperature of the specific burst used for a shot so that the body can take this into account when doing white balance color correction.

Best regards,

Doug

dilbert

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Re: Next Canon Flashes With Exposure Based on Color Temperature?
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2011, 06:11:36 PM »
The basic discussion in the cr report makes no sense to me. I fail to see the connection between color temperature and "exposure".

Imagine, if you will, a flash that has the same temperature as either an incandescent light, the sun or flourescent lighting, as well as the normal "tungsten" value.

What this would mean is that the flash could be used outdoors and not render the subject in a different colour light than the ambient light.

Or maybe I could put it differently... the flash will be able to fire with a different "K" setting(s) than the normal "flash" "K" setting on your camera.

i.e. variable "white balance" from the flash so that it blends in better with the surroundings.

dougkerr

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Re: Next Canon Flashes With Exposure Based on Color Temperature?
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2011, 09:13:03 PM »
Hi, Dilbert,

The basic discussion in the cr report makes no sense to me. I fail to see the connection between color temperature and "exposure".

Imagine, if you will, a flash that has the same temperature as either an incandescent light, the sun or fluorescent lighting, as well as the normal "tungsten" value.
Yes, a flash unit with controllable chromaticity - controllable "color temperature" (CCT, actually), if you will - would be nice.

I'm not sure I get that from the description of this new machine, though - but who knows.

Best regards,

Doug

mccrum

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Re: Next Canon Flashes With Exposure Based on Color Temperature?
« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2011, 10:15:05 AM »
So how would this adjustment of color temperature be done?

I can only think of putting 3 flash bulbs in the head, each gelled with one primary color (RGB) and adjust the output of each flash bulb accordingly to give the desired color temperature.

Or could it be LED based instead of flash bulb? (doubtful as I don't think LED's have the light power that a flash bulb does)
I'm thinking LED here actually.  There are mass manufactured LEDs reaching into the 100 lumens per watt range, where fluorescent (currently the best lumens/watt lamp) is.  Add that LEDs are low-voltage already (smaller capacitors), want to be 6000K to start, and are already a directional source (eliminating the reflector entirely) and we're pretty far down the road to what manufacturers would consider a pretty good thing.  Then it just becomes a second "warm white" grouping of LEDs next to the 6000K ones and you're dialing in your color temperature quickly and easily.
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Gothmoth

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Re: Next Canon Flashes With Exposure Based on Color Temperature?
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2011, 10:42:33 AM »
Could we please stop mis-using the word "quantum" to describe a precipitable change in current-to-future technology?

It makes the post appear as written by someone who just doesn't understand how blisteringly small a quantum leap really is...


it´s not because of the distance that this is used in regular discussions.
it´s because  a quantum leap seems to be "discontinuous". a jump, a instant progression.

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Re: Next Canon Flashes With Exposure Based on Color Temperature?
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2011, 10:42:33 AM »

Gothmoth

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Re: Next Canon Flashes With Exposure Based on Color Temperature?
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2011, 10:45:57 AM »
The basic discussion in the cr report makes no sense to me. I fail to see the connection between color temperature and "exposure".

We may be suffering here from some "loss in translation".

yep i think so.

imho what that means is that the guide number (power output) will be different for different color temperatures the flash is set to.
therefore the exposure needs to be adjusted according to the color temperature of the flash.

dougkerr

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Re: Next Canon Flashes With Exposure Based on Color Temperature?
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2011, 11:54:13 AM »
Hi,


imho what that means is that the guide number (power output) will be different for different color temperatures the flash is set to.
But what does it mean "the color temperature the flash is set to"?

Perhaps it mean that the needed output of the flash for "proper" exposure in a particular case depends on the white balance setting of the camera.

I'll try and get an English translation of the patent publication and see what it actually talks about.

Best regards,

Doug

dougkerr

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Re: Next Canon Flashes With Exposure Based on Color Temperature?
« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2011, 02:59:24 PM »
A colleague was kind enough to arrange for a machine translation of the Japanese patent publication.

I have not yet perused it at any length. The translation is a bit clumsy but is still very welcome.

The patent indeed refers to a flash unit using (for example) three sets of LED's so that the chromaticity of the flash burst can be set, presumably (as mentioned by one of the correspondents here) so that the flash illumination can match the chromaticity of the ambient illumination. [Note that this involves more than the correlated color temperature, although much of the discussion proceeds as if that is the only parameter of interest.].

Presumably this concept itself has been covered in earlier patents.

The thrust of this patent (as it seemed from the earlier characterization) is to provide for automatic flash exposure control to perform properly in this situation.

The basic idea ("matchable" flash burst chromaticity) sounds very worthwhile.

Best regards,

Doug

dilbert

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Re: Next Canon Flashes With Exposure Based on Color Temperature?
« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2011, 04:01:16 PM »
In the S100, Canon introduced the capability for the camera to do dual white balance corrections, presumably so that using the flash under (say) incandescent lights doesn't result in garish photos.

This would seem to be the other angle of attack on the problem of incorrect colour temperature in a photo where the flash is being used. Great to see Canon doing some innovation and coming up with something new to fix "old" problems.

pwp

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Re: Next Canon Flashes With Exposure Based on Color Temperature?
« Reply #26 on: November 22, 2011, 06:41:01 PM »
The prices of the 580EXII are already in the range of (cheap) monolights. For portable lighting the speedlights are great, but they're also selling to people who use them to double as quick & easy & ultra-portable staged setups.

Right, they're pretty close in price to Paul C Buff Einsteins which I recently bought four of. No buyer regret there...the Einsteins are fantastic. (Happy to expand on this but getting OT)

But for 580's to be useful in staged setups, especially when used with modifiers, an external power source for each 580 is a must. Quality batteries cost as much or more than the 580 itself. 

Many of us need both mono's & speedlights. My 580ex & 580 exII are ready for retirement...I'll pre-order at least two of this new flash as soon as it's announced.

Paul Wright


DavidM

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Re: Next Canon Flashes With Exposure Based on Color Temperature?
« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2011, 11:22:41 AM »
no one has successfully explained how the new flash system would practically work?

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Re: Next Canon Flashes With Exposure Based on Color Temperature?
« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2011, 11:22:41 AM »

kennykodak

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Re: Next Canon Flashes With Exposure Based on Color Temperature?
« Reply #28 on: January 28, 2012, 11:47:32 AM »
i switched over to Canon from Nikon a few years ago.  the one thing that i miss most is Nikon flash.  a back light setting, the master/slave settings on the on/off switch, diffuser and color correcting filters and most of all an intelligent power port and cable mount for external batteries.  anyone here ever accidentally push the one inside the unit on a 580?

ScottyP

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Re: Next Canon Flashes With Exposure Based on Color Temperature?
« Reply #29 on: February 26, 2012, 07:03:14 PM »
Hey, just duct tape a magical flash like this onto a Lytro "light field" camera, when they arrive, and you could throw all your other gear away.
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Re: Next Canon Flashes With Exposure Based on Color Temperature?
« Reply #29 on: February 26, 2012, 07:03:14 PM »