Rumors > EOS Bodies
which to get xsi or t2i?
unfocused:
You might want to check out the discussion on this forum regarding Canon 60D vs. Nikon D7000. Although the starting question was different, many of the same points apply.
Basically, it comes down to what you want to do. If you've compared the features, like you said, then you know the T2i is currently the top of the line Rebel and provides a lot of features for the money. Xsi is a generation or two behind in most features. Eventually, features trickle down as the higher-end models get replaced, but I'm guessing that the core features of the T2i won't show up in a lower-cost Rebel for awhile, since three upper-level models (7D, 60D and T2i) all share many of these features and we are in the relatively early stages of the life-cycle for these models.
A recurring theme on this forum is that people drive themselves nuts worrying about buying a camera and then having a new model come out. That's always going to be the case. Decide what you want and start taking pictures.
Edwin Herdman:
It's almost $600 versus somewhere around $850. About a $250 difference. That's getting close to enough for a f/1.4 lens. The XSi isn't as old as I had thought (2008) but it seems to use older components (i.e. Digic III - the Digic IV and supporting components in the T2i let it shoot 3.7 frames per second, compared to the XSi's 3.5, which isn't a big difference until you consider that the T2i is pushing nearly twice the amount of data of the XSi - 18MP versus 10MP). If you simply want good picture quality in a cheap package, I think it'd start making more sense to look at the new compact cameras from Canon, some of which are very good and generally seem to only lose out on low-light performance. Buying a big DSLR when you aren't going to switch lenses - just going to use some image stabilized kit lens with a relatively small maximum aperture and small zoom range - doesn't seem to me to give much advantage over buying a compact with all the same points in a smaller package, in most situations. There is also a difference of some years between the release of the different cameras - so it's up to you. At the very least, if you go with the older camera you would want to download updated versions of the camera software (if you use Digital Photo Professional) from Canon's website, if you get old copies on the provided resource discs (seems likely).
For me, the biggest consideration after price is the screen on the back. The T2i has a nice modern screen with 1,040,000 "dots" on the back, which is slightly better than VGA resolution, or 640x480. The XSi has a screen with 230,000 "dots" on the back, which is a quarter the resolution of VGA, at 320x240. I have used the screen on a Nikon D3000, which is also 230,000 "dots." This is the same resolution as the second screen on a Nintendo DS, but it feels like using a handheld game system from the early 90s because (at least on the D3000, and I'd bet it's similar on the XSi) there's more space between each pixel on the larger screen. It gives the appearance of a grid, which is distracting. That is not good. (The Nikon is even worse because of the ugly screen elements they use, like big distracting fake B&W liquid crystal seven segment display digits like you'd see on an old wristwatch, instead of the nicer round font of the new Canon cameras...but you weren't asking about a Nikon camera.)
In my view, the 920K dots of the 50D, T1i, and newer cameras is "sharp enough" for composing many images in Live View. The 5x and 10x magnification allows precise focus to be made easily, even handheld, even using a tilt-shift / perspective control lens. I would not have fun doing this using a screen with only 320x240 resolution. The XSi has Live View (apparently it was new in that lienup with the model), but again it wouldn't be fun. There is also a consideration in how quickly the screen updates - older cameras tend to have more lag before the image updates, and it might update less frequently as well. The T1i, at least, is pretty quick.
There's also movie mode, which is something else to think about. It's nice to have. Though, on these cameras it's only useful if you are working with professionals on a movie, or you have the chance to set up the camera exactly beforehand. Not good for action or anything with movement; keep a camcorder around.
There are lots of other minor details to obsess over, if you care to. I haven't seen any direct image output comparisons between the 50D / T1i and the XSi (the XSi seems to have occupied a segment either equal to or just below the T1i, given being 10MP slightly over a year before the T1i's release, while there were 12MP sensors in the interim) but I think the resolution speaks for itself. You'll waste less hard drive space on XSi RAW files than on the T1i. JPEGs shouldn't be a problem for either. But you also lose a lot of actual detail going with the XSi, assuming you have a lens and subjects which you can resolve that finely (which also depends on your focusing technique), which of course can double your investment. If you're going to stick with kit lenses and not try to take any nature photos you want blown up into big prints, the XSi ought to be fine, I would think. None of these cameras (besides the 7D) are ready for sports, though the T2i does have newer metering than the XSi, which may lead to nicer-looking, more balanced pictures without any extra effort on your part.
Tangent: Canon (and Nikon) apparently calculates the "dots" resolution of their LCD screens by taking the number of pixels, multiplying by three (each pixel has a red, green, and blue component, or "dot"), so you can get the number of actual pixels and guess at the resolution by dividing by three first. Canon says the 7D has "VGA" resolution, which is approximately 640x480, or like a DOS / Windows 95 PC. The T2i's screen has a different aspect ratio, more like a movie screen's, of 3 long by 2 high (instead of 4:3), and is slightly higher resolution than the T1i / 7D - overall you should get a small, but not really deal-making, bump in usable resolution, because not only are there more pixels, but more of them can be used to show the image (on the 4:3 ratio camera screens, there's black bars).
Jon Gilchrist:
I don't think Edwin has ever actually touched an XSi, so his assessment is a bit off.
--- Quote from: Edwin Herdman on October 03, 2010, 07:40:16 PM ---....which isn't a big difference until you consider that the T2i is pushing nearly twice the amount of data of the XSi - 18MP versus 10MP).
--- End quote ---
The XSi has 12.1MP, so the T2i is pushing about 50% more. The biggest difference between the DIGIC III & IV from a user standpoint is the menu system.
--- Quote from: Edwin Herdman on October 03, 2010, 07:40:16 PM --- If you simply want good picture quality in a cheap package, I think it'd start making more sense to look at the new compact cameras from Canon,
--- End quote ---
The OP has stated he wants a dslr, so this whole section is superfluous.
--- Quote from: Edwin Herdman on October 03, 2010, 07:40:16 PM ---This is the same resolution as the second screen on a Nintendo DS, but it feels like using a handheld game system from the early 90s because (at least on the D3000, and I'd bet it's similar on the XSi) there's more space between each pixel on the larger screen. It gives the appearance of a grid, which is distracting.
--- End quote ---
There is no appearance of a grid whatsoever on the XSi. None. Zero. There is no space between pixels. The screen on the XSi is perfectly clear and usable.
--- Quote from: Edwin Herdman on October 03, 2010, 07:40:16 PM ---The XSi has Live View (apparently it was new in that lienup with the model), but again it wouldn't be fun. There is also a consideration in how quickly the screen updates - older cameras tend to have more lag before the image updates, and it might update less frequently as well. The T1i, at least, is pretty quick.
--- End quote ---
The screen update speed on the XSi was fine, but the ability of the camera to autofocus in Live View was marginal at best. For all practical purposes it was necessary to turn on Live View, frame the subject, turn it off, and then shoot. I may be a big fan of the XSi, but Live View was not a usable feature.
--- Quote from: Edwin Herdman on October 03, 2010, 07:40:16 PM ---There's also movie mode, which is something else to think about. It's nice to have. Though, on these cameras it's only useful if you are working with professionals on a movie, or you have the chance to set up the camera exactly beforehand. Not good for action or anything with movement; keep a camcorder around.
--- End quote ---
Really? I realize there are rolling shutter problems in some instances, but so far I haven't encountered any problems with video on my 60D. I assume the T2i would be exactly the same. OP, it is safe to use the T2i for video, really.
--- Quote from: Edwin Herdman on October 03, 2010, 07:40:16 PM ---There are lots of other minor details to obsess over, if you care to. I haven't seen any direct image output comparisons between the 50D / T1i and the XSi (the XSi seems to have occupied a segment either equal to or just below the T1i, given being 10MP slightly over a year before the T1i's release, while there were 12MP sensors in the interim) but I think the resolution speaks for itself.
--- End quote ---
Again, the XSi was 12.1MP. The XTi was 10, the XT was 8. It would be a fairly rare image that would actually require higher than 12MP. In over 50k shots over 2.5 years I never needed higher resolution, and I printed as large as 24x36.
OP, look at the features of each camera and see what works best for you at the different price points. Read reviews. I bought my XSi the first day it was available and paid full original list price (I think it was either $900 or $1000). I look back and it was money well spent. At current prices it's an amazing bargain. That said, if I were buying in that class today I'd go for the T2i for the improved low-light performance and the video. But only you can decide what works for you. All three cameras are capable of creating amazing images, any of them would be great first dslrs.
Edwin Herdman:
--- Quote from: Jon Gilchrist on October 04, 2010, 07:40:19 AM ---I don't think Edwin has ever actually touched an XSi, so his assessment is a bit off.
--- End quote ---
No, and yes, you're right on that account. Thanks for the corrections, and I really need to remember to put disclaimers higher up.
--- Quote ---
--- Quote from: Edwin Herdman on October 03, 2010, 07:40:16 PM --- If you simply want good picture quality in a cheap package, I think it'd start making more sense to look at the new compact cameras from Canon,
--- End quote ---
The OP has stated he wants a dslr, so this whole section is superfluous.
--- End quote ---
Does the OP know why he needs a DSLR? Again, if they know why they need it, that's fine. But if they sort of just feel it's the right kind of camera to get, it's worth asking this question more carefully.
--- Quote ---
--- Quote from: Edwin Herdman on October 03, 2010, 07:40:16 PM ---This is the same resolution as the second screen on a Nintendo DS, but it feels like using a handheld game system from the early 90s because (at least on the D3000, and I'd bet it's similar on the XSi) there's more space between each pixel on the larger screen. It gives the appearance of a grid, which is distracting.
--- End quote ---
There is no appearance of a grid whatsoever on the XSi. None. Zero. There is no space between pixels. The screen on the XSi is perfectly clear and usable.
--- End quote ---
I'd definitely be happy to hear this isn't the case. That would be a major point in favor of the XSi over the D3000 in that case.
--- Quote ---The screen update speed on the XSi was fine, but the ability of the camera to autofocus in Live View was marginal at best. For all practical purposes it was necessary to turn on Live View, frame the subject, turn it off, and then shoot. I may be a big fan of the XSi, but Live View was not a usable feature.
--- End quote ---
Live View's reason for being is composing images precisely, especially when using special optics like a tilt-shift lens. I clearly don't know how it works on the XSi, but on the T1i, you hit the Live View switch, and use the zoom key to flip between the three levels of magnification (1, 5x, 10x) as needed. Slow, but it's absolutely critical - if you need it. I'd be more than willing to admit that unless you're using a special optic, you probably don't need it. (This becomes a small point tilting the playing field in favor of a compact, again.)
--- Quote ---Really? I realize there are rolling shutter problems in some instances, but so far I haven't encountered any problems with video on my 60D. I assume the T2i would be exactly the same. OP, it is safe to use the T2i for video, really.
--- End quote ---
What I mean is that it's not the best choice for situations where you're on the move, compared to camcorders at least. It has poor ergonomics for stable video unless you have a rig to set it on, and then you have to deal with focus. As I thought I said - if you can set it on a tripod and don't need to change focal length or focus you'll be good. Last I heard, only the new Alpha semi-transparent mirror cameras and the D7000 offered continuous autofocus in this price range, which is necessary unless you're happy manually focusing everything (or content with the slow contrast detection AF). Yes, I have tried manually focusing video while walking around. It's possible, but will anybody want to watch it jumping around like mad (unless you have hybrid IS or a short focal length)? Probably not!
--- Quote ---Again, the XSi was 12.1MP. The XTi was 10, the XT was 8. It would be a fairly rare image that would actually require higher than 12MP. In over 50k shots over 2.5 years I never needed higher resolution, and I printed as large as 24x36.
--- End quote ---
So we're back where we started - the resolution speaks for itself. Whether it's a compelling argument for one camera or another is up to the user. And to be fair, you can save smaller JPEGs right out of the newer cameras for a likely boost in constant frame rates (as the buffer won't be saturated so quickly).
--- Quote ---OP, look at the features of each camera and see what works best for you at the different price points. Read reviews. I bought my XSi the first day it was available and paid full original list price (I think it was either $900 or $1000). I look back and it was money well spent. At current prices it's an amazing bargain. That said, if I were buying in that class today I'd go for the T2i for the improved low-light performance and the video. But only you can decide what works for you. All three cameras are capable of creating amazing images, any of them would be great first dslrs.
--- End quote ---
I think that's a good conclusion, overall. Though it's worth mentioning that the ISO and video performance jumps across the segment are simply evolutionary, and you won't really see great jumps in ISO performance until you get into another category of DSLR entirely.
oupoliscigrad:
Like most photo forums on the internet, this thread is getting hijacked by people grandstanding/arguing, rather than helping the OP. I'm not saying Edwin and John's comments aren't valid or whatever, but they're getting into a battle over a simple question asked by a novice. Come on guys. Really.
I currently shoot with an XSi and a 50mm f/1.4. I've had it for a year and love it, with the exception of the pretty cruddy high-ISO noise reduction. I know the high ISO settings on the T2i can be pretty cruddy as well, but there have been times where I simply needed a higher shutter speed and I couldn't push the aperture open any more and ISO 1600 (max. for the XSi) was just shy of what I needed. With a T2i, I could have gone up to 3200 and fixed any noise in post.
The XSi is a great beginner camera, especially paired with a fast prime like the 50mm f/1.4. But you need to be aware of its limitations. If you foresee yourself shooting hand-held in not-too-optimal lighting conditions, even with a fast prime, I'd suggest going for a T2i as you'll be able to bump up the ISO. If I could do it all over again, that's the route I would have gone. But for now I'm pretty happy, especially since I'm getting into off-camera flash where you can shoot at low ISOs and not worry about not having enough light.
Hope that helps.
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