October 24, 2014, 03:47:12 AM

Author Topic: New Canon L Primes, but Not Until 2015 [CR2)  (Read 9874 times)

privatebydesign

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Re: New Canon L Primes, but Not Until 2015 [CR2)
« Reply #60 on: July 29, 2014, 04:30:21 PM »
Since the 50 f/1.4 replacement is rumored to be the f/1.8 mkIII IS, it's entirely plausible that the new 50L will be a 50 f/1.4 mkII IS.

If they followed decades of nomenclature that would make an EF 50mm f/1.8 IS USM, no MkIII, nor, in time, would it become a MkI or a C for "classic". And an EF 50mm f/1.4L IS USM, also not a MkII, hopefully this would mean people never call the current EF 50mm f/1.4 USM a MkI or a "classic", I live in hope.

My favourite is the 1D, rather confusingly now often referred to as a 1Dc, meaning "classic" but changing its value from $100-200 to around $8,000-10,000, but what's in a name  :D
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Re: New Canon L Primes, but Not Until 2015 [CR2)
« Reply #60 on: July 29, 2014, 04:30:21 PM »

Dekaner

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Re: New Canon L Primes, but Not Until 2015 [CR2)
« Reply #61 on: July 29, 2014, 04:47:05 PM »
I wonder if they considered the 800mm in this equation.  I would have expected the mark II to come out sooner rather than later.

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Re: New Canon L Primes, but Not Until 2015 [CR2)
« Reply #62 on: July 29, 2014, 11:08:07 PM »
I'd love it if they updated the 28–135 to be a 24–135, to be the full-frame equivalent for the 15–85.
Thing is, they'd have to sunset the 24-105 lens at that point...which is something they seem hesitant to do. I certainly can't see them even imagining starting a new, cheap kit lens product line when they have a successful one already, and backlogs on lenses that need updates.

Likewise for anything like the 28-200/28-300. Just too hard to get it down to a reasonable price that people will buy it, knowing it inherently has IQ and performance trade-offs

chromophore

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Re: New Canon L Primes, but Not Until 2015 [CR2)
« Reply #63 on: July 29, 2014, 11:25:46 PM »
I suspect people are forgetting that Canon are in the business of lens manufacturing to make money, not to satisfy photographers economic needs. 

Yes, and so are Canon's competitors.  So how does that explain the fact that Sigma released a 50/1.4 under $1000 that is better than any Canon 50mm prime out there?  I can assure you that Sigma wants to make money as much as Canon does.  What's Canon's excuse for not offering a high quality fast aperture 50mm prime--something that is arguably the foundation for any 135 format system?

The current 50mm lineup is no more or less difficult to manufacture now than they were when they were designed.  Production comes and goes in batches; when they want to adjust their manufacturing processes for a different optical design, it is not as if they are reinventing the entire lens from the drawing board.  All of these lenses have been out so long they have long since recouped the development overhead and then some.

The bottom line is that Canon makes crappy 50mm primes.  There is no escaping that.  They do not satisfy the basic criteria of reasonable price, quality construction, fast aperture, and good sharpness.  No, I am not demanding that they make an AF version of the Otus 55/1.4 and sell it for $25.  I am saying that their existing 50mm lineup has been lacking for years, and I claim this is in large part due to their apparent interest these past several years in making cheap consumer zooms or disproportionately expensive L zooms and superteles.  And so we have competitors like Sigma swooping in and eating their lunch.

Again, that's *SIGMA* we are talking about here.  This the same lens company that used to make knockoff cr*p designs.  If even THEY can design something like the 50/1.4 Art, then Canon has ZERO excuse not to do even better AND for less.  Lens design is still difficult these days, but it is a lot more computer- and data-driven than it was even back when the 50/1.2L was designed.  Had Canon done its homework in lens R&D, they wouldn't need years to make a competing product.

Oh, and for those of you fantasizing about an f/1.4 IS design--it's not going to happen.  We will be insanely fortunate to just get ANY new f/1.4 design from Canon these days, much less one with IS.  Canon's lens design philosophy these days is to slap IS on everything, reduce the aperture diameter, and call it a wash when it clearly isn't.  They do this because it's cheaper to throw in IS than to design and manufacture for the much tighter tolerances of an extra few stops of light.  It's easier and more profitable for Canon to make a lens that is sharp starting at f/4 rather than design a f/2 lens that is soft in the corners.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2014, 11:30:59 PM by chromophore »

Lee Jay

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Re: New Canon L Primes, but Not Until 2015 [CR2)
« Reply #64 on: July 29, 2014, 11:50:41 PM »
What's Canon's excuse for not offering a high quality fast aperture 50mm prime--something that is arguably the foundation for any 135 format system?

They aren't very useful, and therefore don't sell very well?

privatebydesign

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Re: New Canon L Primes, but Not Until 2015 [CR2)
« Reply #65 on: July 30, 2014, 12:16:04 AM »
What's Canon's excuse for not offering a high quality fast aperture 50mm prime--something that is arguably the foundation for any 135 format system?

Well if you discount the high quality fast aperture they do make, and I am not sure why you would, then we could start discussing your other "arguable point" , the 50mm lens has not been the basis of any 135 format system for decades, literally decades. Recent comments suggest that only 4% to 5% of DSLR purchasers actually buy any other lens than the slow midrange zoom that came in the kit. So, we have reduced the people interested in a 50mm lens to considerably less than 5% of DSLR owners, Canon already make four 50mm lenses that all have good product differentiation and they know exactly how many of each they sell, most of those actual potential purchasers are happy with one of the four offerings Canon already make, if not they have the choice of several other manufacturers also at different price and specification points.

Where is the upside in making a new 50? At least a 50 f2 IS fits in with their current prime series and offers yet another feature set to differentiate it from the competition. Time and money is better spent on more interesting lenses with mass appeal, to that <5% of owners, like a 100-400 etc etc.
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Re: New Canon L Primes, but Not Until 2015 [CR2)
« Reply #66 on: July 30, 2014, 02:40:40 AM »
I'd love it if they updated the 28–135 to be a 24–135, to be the full-frame equivalent for the 15–85.
Thing is, they'd have to sunset the 24-105 lens at that point...which is something they seem hesitant to do. I certainly can't see them even imagining starting a new, cheap kit lens product line when they have a successful one already, and backlogs on lenses that need updates.

Likewise for anything like the 28-200/28-300. Just too hard to get it down to a reasonable price that people will buy it, knowing it inherently has IQ and performance trade-offs

A replacement for the 28-135 will become important as full frame reaches the Rebel price range. This won't happen soon, but probably in 5 years, certainly before 10. I'm predicting an STM version, but not for a few years yet.
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Re: New Canon L Primes, but Not Until 2015 [CR2)
« Reply #66 on: July 30, 2014, 02:40:40 AM »

dgatwood

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Re: New Canon L Primes, but Not Until 2015 [CR2)
« Reply #67 on: July 30, 2014, 12:22:14 PM »
I'd love it if they updated the 28–135 to be a 24–135, to be the full-frame equivalent for the 15–85.
Thing is, they'd have to sunset the 24-105 lens at that point...which is something they seem hesitant to do.

Not necessarily.  The 28–135 isn't an L lens, and a 24–135 probably wouldn't be, either.

StudentOfLight

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Re: New Canon L Primes, but Not Until 2015 [CR2)
« Reply #68 on: August 13, 2014, 06:39:25 PM »
I'd love it if they updated the 28–135 to be a 24–135, to be the full-frame equivalent for the 15–85.
Thing is, they'd have to sunset the 24-105 lens at that point...which is something they seem hesitant to do.

Not necessarily.  The 28–135 isn't an L lens, and a 24–135 probably wouldn't be, either.
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Re: New Canon L Primes, but Not Until 2015 [CR2)
« Reply #69 on: August 16, 2014, 02:19:04 AM »
Nice Try... there is no EF-S L-Lense ;)
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Antono Refa

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Re: New Canon L Primes, but Not Until 2015 [CR2)
« Reply #70 on: August 16, 2014, 03:17:21 AM »
I suspect people are forgetting that Canon are in the business of lens manufacturing to make money, not to satisfy photographers economic needs. 

Yes, and so are Canon's competitors.  So how does that explain the fact that Sigma released a 50/1.4 under $1000 that is better than any Canon 50mm prime out there?  I can assure you that Sigma wants to make money as much as Canon does.  What's Canon's excuse for not offering a high quality fast aperture 50mm prime--something that is arguably the foundation for any 135 format system?

<snip>

The bottom line is that Canon makes crappy 50mm primes.  There is no escaping that.  They do not satisfy the basic criteria of reasonable price, quality construction, fast aperture, and good sharpness.  No, I am not demanding that they make an AF version of the Otus 55/1.4 and sell it for $25.  I am saying that their existing 50mm lineup has been lacking for years, and I claim this is in large part due to their apparent interest these past several years in making cheap consumer zooms or disproportionately expensive L zooms and superteles.  And so we have competitors like Sigma swooping in and eating their lunch.

The Canon EF 50mm f/1.2 is a crappy 50mm prime? It's made for purpose portrait lens, just like the 85mm f/1.2 II, but it isn't crap.

As for general purpose fast 50mm prime, the Otus 55mm f/1.4, the Nikon 58mm f/1.4, and the Sigma 50mm f/1.4 are all less than a year old.

Before that, none of the manufacturers made great fast 50mm primes. My impression is the Nikon AF-S 50mm f/1.4 G is better than Canon's 50mm f/1.4, then the former is 6 years old digital era lens, and the later is a 20 years old film era lens.

I agree it's time Canon refreshed it's time Canon released new 50mm primes, but things aren't as bad as you present them.

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Re: New Canon L Primes, but Not Until 2015 [CR2)
« Reply #71 on: August 16, 2014, 03:32:00 AM »
There seems to be some odd concensus that Canon have not made anything new for years and are neglecting primes.

I have recently purchased both the 24 2.8 IS and the 35 F2 IS both new lenses and both are fantastic, the 35 F2 IS has replaced my 24-70 L and walks all over my 50mm 1.2L which is now sold.

It logically follows that it would be easy enough using those new designs to bring in a 50 1.8 IS with the build quality and optical quality of the 35 F2 IS which would then be on a par with the Sigma.

I am also hoping more for an 85 1.8 IS to replace my 85 1.8 which although great needs an update !

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Re: New Canon L Primes, but Not Until 2015 [CR2)
« Reply #72 on: August 16, 2014, 04:38:04 AM »
I always find these debates interesting but also people spend too much time saying certain lens are crappy. I think people often blame equipment before themselves. A good photograph is 90% creativity and 10% equipment. I'd say in a blind test 99% of Canon shooters couldn't tell a photo taken from an Otus from a 50mm 1.4.
People should push to the limit what they have before moving to more expensive equipment.
I have the 85 1.2 . This lens is amazing at times. It's not amazing all the time because the photographer isn't precise enough with their technique. Similarily the 50 1.2 is a great lens in the right hands. It's a specialist portrait lens. I doubt they had walking around in mind. In a studio with lights and stopped down a bit those two lens are too sharp. You can see every pore, every blemish and piece of food stuck in their teeth.
It's scary at times. I have to jump past photoshop to portrait professional to not shock the person in the photo.
More practice with your existing prime is my advice. Work on your creativity and technique and worry less about the lens performance. It's good enough.
Ps my canon 1.4 isn't the sharpest lens in the world but it takes a lovely photo (as long as you don't pixel peep).
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Re: New Canon L Primes, but Not Until 2015 [CR2)
« Reply #72 on: August 16, 2014, 04:38:04 AM »

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Re: New Canon L Primes, but Not Until 2015 [CR2)
« Reply #73 on: August 16, 2014, 11:23:56 AM »
A new 50 L that's "a lot smaller" ?? Makes no sense whatsoever ..
Makes, sense, that's just like the Otus.  Oh wait.

vscd

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Re: New Canon L Primes, but Not Until 2015 [CR2)
« Reply #74 on: August 18, 2014, 04:29:17 AM »
Quote
I doubt they had walking around in mind. In a studio with lights and stopped down a bit those two lens are too sharp

Yepp, and there you mark the problem by yourself. Why do you want to stop down a f1.2 lens? Of course it's not clever to use the f1.2 on portraits in short distances, but the f1.4 is even better @f1.4...

The weathersealing and a little bit brighter viewfinder makes not a grand on money. On the other side, the 85 1.2L is totally useable @f1.2...
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Re: New Canon L Primes, but Not Until 2015 [CR2)
« Reply #74 on: August 18, 2014, 04:29:17 AM »