November 28, 2014, 02:42:47 PM

Author Topic: Neutral Density Filters - HELP !  (Read 2525 times)

PikkieChick

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Neutral Density Filters - HELP !
« on: July 29, 2014, 02:39:15 PM »
Hi there
Looking at buying my first batch of ND filters. Thought that a Hoya 3 stop and 6 stop would be a good start. My question is - can I stack these to achieve 9 stops using either a 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM or  EF 16-35mm f/2.8L II USM.

I understand that the 16-35mm might vignette badly with stacked filters. Does anyone have experience with this ?
Also that many lenses you can't actually go up to 9 stops as wide angle lenses sometimes will give you an x in your image at much lower than 9 stops.

Help and feedback please. Maybe the slim B+W might be an option, but any better with vignetting ?  Can u stack a hoya + a slim B+W on top (as I understand the slim B+W doesnt have the thread on top)
« Last Edit: July 29, 2014, 03:45:32 PM by PikkieChick »

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Neutral Density Filters - HELP !
« on: July 29, 2014, 02:39:15 PM »

lintoni

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Re: Neutral Density Filters - HELP !
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2014, 07:47:09 AM »
You are very likely to get vignetting on ultra wide angle lenses. Have you considered a filter system like Lee's?
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FEBS

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Re: Neutral Density Filters - HELP !
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2014, 11:32:34 AM »
On an APS-C body, you will not have that big issue of vignetting. However on a FF it will be there with both lenses, and for sure with the 16-35. On FF, and <24mm and a variable ND filter you can already see the Maltezer cross after 3 to 4 stops of reduction. I didn't test with stacked ND filters as I have a 2, 3, 6 and 10ND. If possible take the ND filter as slim as available but keep yourself to the good brands like B&W.
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Re: Neutral Density Filters - HELP !
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2014, 12:12:48 PM »
Buy single filters.

You have spent a lot of money else where, buy the single filters in various strengths.  If you already have a polariser (which you should) I would skip the ND2 or 3 and go straight for a nd64 and an ND1000.

I would not stack them as you can get funny casts (funny casts already on the ND1000s) and risk your expensive filters binding.

Buy at the biggest thread size you need and step them down rather than buying for each lens.


surapon

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Re: Neutral Density Filters - HELP !
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2014, 01:19:58 PM »
Hi there
Looking at buying my first batch of ND filters. Thought that a Hoya 3 stop and 6 stop would be a good start. My question is - can I stack these to achieve 9 stops using either a 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM or  EF 16-35mm f/2.8L II USM.

I understand that the 16-35mm might vignette badly with stacked filters. Does anyone have experience with this ?
Also that many lenses you can't actually go up to 9 stops as wide angle lenses sometimes will give you an x in your image at much lower than 9 stops.

Help and feedback please. Maybe the slim B+W might be an option, but any better with vignetting ?  Can u stack a hoya + a slim B+W on top (as I understand the slim B+W doesnt have the thread on top)

Dear Friend.
Get 82 mm. filter and Filter adapter 82 mm to 77 mm :
http://www.amazon.com/Tiffen-77VND-VARIABLE-FILTER-Camera/dp/B004Z55VP0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1406826925&sr=8-1&keywords=variable+nd+filter

Or
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/609253-REG/Singh_Ray_RT_86_77mm_Vari_ND_Variable_Neutral.html

Enjoy
Surapon
« Last Edit: July 31, 2014, 01:23:39 PM by surapon »

daemorhedron

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Re: Neutral Density Filters - HELP !
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2014, 02:05:36 PM »
I agree, get big filters and use adapters. Also, I use the FOTGA Variable ND filter with absolutely no regrets. Cost me $10 on eBay.

Lyle Krannichfeld

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Re: Neutral Density Filters - HELP !
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2014, 02:21:13 PM »
If you're shooting landscapes, I'd strongly suggest the LEE system. Game changer for landscape images.
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Re: Neutral Density Filters - HELP !
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2014, 02:21:13 PM »

tetten

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Re: Neutral Density Filters - HELP !
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2014, 03:39:08 PM »
Don't waste your money on screw on ND filters. You will quickly get annoyed having to screw on and off filters while taking test shots and exploring compositions and will just frustrate yourself. Instead do like a couple people have already recommended, get a Lee filter holder system and get slide in square filters. This will also provide the opportunity to purchase wide-angle adapters for the Lee system, which will help reduce vignetting which you are concerned about. Keep in mind though it will probably be more expensive than thread on filters or cheaper filter systems, however the price difference is justified in its superiority, performance, and options.

Also I would recommend against Vari-ND filters, I have a Singh-Ray vari ND and haven't used it since I first tested it, I prefer to shoot wide angle landscape and nature shots and the vignetting + horrible looking double polarizer cross effect renders it basically useless for what I like to shoot. I am sure some out there find good uses for it, but for for me its been a complete waste of $300 or whatever I spent on it.

If you do decide to shell out for the Lee system you will have to get one of the specially designed 10 stop filters to use with it, since they have a foam seal to prevent light leakage around the filter. Several manufacturers offer filters like this, just look around at reviews and see what is good and available, the Lee Big Stopper has been hard to get a hold of in the past.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2014, 03:51:01 PM by tetten »

Otter

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Re: Neutral Density Filters - HELP !
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2014, 04:06:03 PM »
Hi there
Looking at buying my first batch of ND filters. Thought that a Hoya 3 stop and 6 stop would be a good start. My question is - can I stack these to achieve 9 stops using either a 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM or  EF 16-35mm f/2.8L II USM.

I understand that the 16-35mm might vignette badly with stacked filters. Does anyone have experience with this ?
Also that many lenses you can't actually go up to 9 stops as wide angle lenses sometimes will give you an x in your image at much lower than 9 stops.

Help and feedback please. Maybe the slim B+W might be an option, but any better with vignetting ?  Can u stack a hoya + a slim B+W on top (as I understand the slim B+W doesnt have the thread on top)

Hey Pikkie, definietly go with the Lee filter system with the wide angle adapter.  I have it as well as many other people I know and it's great.  Do not go and buy $10 filters from somewhere.  You get what you pay for and cheap filters change color over the time.  You've spend all that money on nice 24-70mm glass, don't put something cheap in front of it. 
When buying ND grads, I suggest a Lee set of 3 hard or soft grade.  You save a lot if you buy a set of 3.  I believe they run around $230 something when a single is $120.  Whether you go hard or soft, is up to you depending on what kind of landscape you shoot.  I have 1-3 stop soft and a 3 stop hard.  If you are just looking for a solid ND grad filter(not graduated) and a lot of stops go for the 10 stop Big Stopper(1 filter 1 slot).  They also have a 6 stop little stopper if 10 stops is too much.  You can see the difference between the two here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYxc_G12ogM

Some people will get a 6 then stack something on top.  It all depends on your style of shooting and what you are looking to achieve.  There is definitely no one stop does it all filter as I'm sure you know.  I've been picking away at my filter collection over the years as they are not cheap, but I use different filters for different situations.  I even dropped and broke a big stopper once while shooting.  :/  I did like it so much I replaced it though. 
You will get vingetting.  With 2 slots on my 16-35mm I get a bit of vingetting at 16mm.  20mm is fine with 2 slots.  This comes with the territory and is pretty much unavoidable when you get really wide.  This can be fixed in lightroom pretty easily anyhow.  To give you an idea, I shoot with a 16-35mm F/4L.  I put a Lee holder on the end with 2 slots plus a B+W 105mm Kaesemann Circular Polarizer Extra Wide MRC Filter and I can get to 20mm without vingetting.  Below 20, vingetting will show up however.

KarstenReis

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Re: Neutral Density Filters - HELP !
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2014, 04:11:21 PM »
I too would also echo what others have been saying about the Lee filters. I just purchased the 24-70 2.8 II and had a similar decision to make.  I ended up going with the Lee 100mm system. While more expensive I think in the long run I will use it more and it will produce better images.  So far I have the Big Stopper and a 105 mm polarizer that uses an adapter to screw on to the front of the system.  I will be getting a neutral density grad filter soon.  Will update when I use the system in a few days.

M_S

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Re: Neutral Density Filters - HELP !
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2014, 04:16:52 PM »
I just bought a Lee filter system and I am really shocked about the build quality of that system. The adapter ring has a faulty finish with markings on it, which then were fixed with a pen as a cover up. After returning that adapter ring I got another one just like it. I conacted the manufacturer which explained to me that these markings are caused in the manufacturing process, quote: "The marks inside the ring are voids left during the anodising process. The rings are suspended in the solution by small wire 'hangers' and these leave voids where they touch the metal."
This I never have seen from any other manufacturer.
See picture for this.
Above all my 0.9 ND pro glass came with tiny specles of yellow finish on the glass right under the yellow label. This goes well 30mm into the middle of the glass. On a glass worth of 200 Euros. Also not what I would call high end. This is just bad quality so far. I haven't given up on it completely but one more of this stuff not gone through the quality control or badly produced and I will send the whole shabbang back.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2014, 04:34:01 PM by M_S »

M_S

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Re: Neutral Density Filters - HELP !
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2014, 04:20:00 PM »
Here is what I am referring to:

M_S

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Re: Neutral Density Filters - HELP !
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2014, 04:23:41 PM »
and another one

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Re: Neutral Density Filters - HELP !
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2014, 04:23:41 PM »

brad-man

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Re: Neutral Density Filters - HELP !
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2014, 06:19:12 PM »
I just bought a Lee filter system and I am really shocked about the build quality of that system. The adapter ring has a faulty finish with markings on it, which then were fixed with a pen as a cover up. After returning that adapter ring I got another one just like it. I conacted the manufacturer which explained to me that these markings are caused in the manufacturing process, quote: "The marks inside the ring are voids left during the anodising process. The rings are suspended in the solution by small wire 'hangers' and these leave voids where they touch the metal."
This I never have seen from any other manufacturer.
See picture for this.
Above all my 0.9 ND pro glass came with tiny specles of yellow finish on the glass right under the yellow label. This goes well 30mm into the middle of the glass. On a glass worth of 200 Euros. Also not what I would call high end. This is just bad quality so far. I haven't given up on it completely but one more of this stuff not gone through the quality control or badly produced and I will send the whole shabbang back.

As you have supplied wonderful photos of Lees shoddy workmanship in the manufacturing of your filter system, could you please supply a photo that was ruined by this inferior system?

No? I didn't think so.

@ OP: Agree with others who recommend Lee Filter System. Though they are pricey at the start, if you're in this picture thing for the long haul, they are actually the best investment for quality and versatility.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2014, 06:29:07 PM by brad-man »

Otter

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Re: Neutral Density Filters - HELP !
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2014, 06:29:19 PM »
I just bought a Lee filter system and I am really shocked about the build quality of that system. The adapter ring has a faulty finish with markings on it, which then were fixed with a pen as a cover up. After returning that adapter ring I got another one just like it. I conacted the manufacturer which explained to me that these markings are caused in the manufacturing process, quote: "The marks inside the ring are voids left during the anodising process. The rings are suspended in the solution by small wire 'hangers' and these leave voids where they touch the metal."
This I never have seen from any other manufacturer.
See picture for this.
Above all my 0.9 ND pro glass came with tiny specles of yellow finish on the glass right under the yellow label. This goes well 30mm into the middle of the glass. On a glass worth of 200 Euros. Also not what I would call high end. This is just bad quality so far. I haven't given up on it completely but one more of this stuff not gone through the quality control or badly produced and I will send the whole shabbang back.

I have no complaints about the build quality of any of my Lee products.  I dropped and broke a big stopper which is my fault.  Maybe it's just me but if I have holes in my adapter ring, it doesn't bother me.  To be honest, I never even looked at mine for imperfections.  As long as it stays on the end of my lens and does what it is supposed to do, that's enough for me. 
I do think if you are paying 200 Euros for a filter and it has yellow dots over any part that is in the field of view, it should be sent back. 

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Re: Neutral Density Filters - HELP !
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2014, 06:29:19 PM »