November 20, 2014, 04:47:14 PM

Author Topic: Why are Cine Lenses so expensive?  (Read 5201 times)

dilbert

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Re: Why are Cine Lenses so expensive?
« Reply #30 on: August 05, 2014, 09:38:04 AM »
I wouldn't be surprised if the Canon cine lenses spent much longer in the hands of humans tweaking and polishing and perfecting each lens so that each one goes out as close to identical as possible rather than just being on an assembly line, such as the 50/1.8s likely are.

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Re: Why are Cine Lenses so expensive?
« Reply #30 on: August 05, 2014, 09:38:04 AM »

JohanCruyff

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Re: Why are Cine Lenses so expensive?
« Reply #31 on: August 05, 2014, 12:32:33 PM »
Nowhere did the OP say he is considering buying a CN-E lens. It could have been simple curiosity.

+1.
 
A stupid question would have been "What are the advantages of buying surgeon's knife to peel fruit?".
 
 
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sdsr

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Re: Why are Cine Lenses so expensive?
« Reply #32 on: August 05, 2014, 02:56:35 PM »

It's a stupid thread and a stupid question.  Everybody else is trying to be nice and skirt round that fact.

...

For an untrained amateur with deep pockets and a gnawing desire to have the best toys, most expensive toys in the playground, they will make your life harder.

This is a premise that we need to accept.... modern dslr technology can make the most rancidly untalented photographer turn out reasonable shots. 

....


Perhaps it would have been better to ask it elsewhere instead, but why is the question "stupid"?  And what do "untrained amateurs with deep pockets", "rancidly untalented" or otherwise, have to do with the answer?  Or do you know something about the OP that the rest of us don't?

pablo

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Re: Why are Cine Lenses so expensive?
« Reply #33 on: August 05, 2014, 05:47:56 PM »

It's a stupid thread and a stupid question.  Everybody else is trying to be nice and skirt round that fact.

...

For an untrained amateur with deep pockets and a gnawing desire to have the best toys, most expensive toys in the playground, they will make your life harder.

This is a premise that we need to accept.... modern dslr technology can make the most rancidly untalented photographer turn out reasonable shots. 

....


Perhaps it would have been better to ask it elsewhere instead, but why is the question "stupid"?  And what do "untrained amateurs with deep pockets", "rancidly untalented" or otherwise, have to do with the answer?  Or do you know something about the OP that the rest of us don't?

read back friend.  it's all there.  I don't kbow a thing about. the op, his (her?) talent or wealth.  and I made no comment specifically about any of those things in regard to them. 

Logan

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Re: Why are Cine Lenses so expensive?
« Reply #34 on: August 05, 2014, 08:17:30 PM »
pablo, your reading comprehension leaves a lot to be desired. not only did you misunderstand the OP's intent, but you havent even answered his question (which should be easy since you know everything there is to know about everything, right?).

I dont really know what makes them worth the crazy price, but in general cine lenses are:

Marked in T-stops (dont know why)
De-clicked aperture (adjust aperture while filming with no sound or vibration)
parfocal (change zoom without losing focus)
No focus breathing (change focus with subjects keeping their relative sizes)
Geared focus rings (for focus pulling)
Similar size lens bodies (for easy changing without re setting the whole rig)
Same size filter threads (for smaller collection of filters)
I assume the power zooms let you customize how far and how fast it zooms, to do long slow zooms repeatedly with no human error, but i could be wrong.

since discount cine lenses like rokinons have many of these features, i dont know why there is such a difference in price, but the hand built everything aligned to perfection theory makes sense to me.

If you think something is a stupid question, easy solution, dont reply. Then it will drop of the first page and you wont have to see it. If its such a stupid question you should be able to answer it easily, instead of just insulting the person asking.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2014, 08:21:23 PM by Logan »

pablo

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Re: Why are Cine Lenses so expensive?
« Reply #35 on: August 05, 2014, 09:41:13 PM »
my reading comprehension skills?

i supported another forum users point, I answered the question.  it is all there chum.

T stop stands for transmission, an f-stop is a mathematical expression between the focal length and the iris diameter, it is an idealised expression.  A t-stop is measured on each individual lens, even changed as wear and tear takes its toll on the lens (perhaps not  on the rokinons, I have a samyang lens, great for the cash) and even on a brand new lens will take account of internal reflections, coating reflections, true opacity of the glass etc.  even the worlds finest  lens is likely to have a differing t and f number.

the t information lets the lighting director add compensation to his meter for measuring a lit scene.  a third of a stop out on some emulsions would be game over, knowing exactly what a lens is passing to the reel of film was critical

i don't know everything.  but thanks for your vote of confidence.

Max Rockbin

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Re: Why are Cine Lenses so expensive?
« Reply #36 on: October 14, 2014, 10:34:29 PM »
Another reason Cine lenses are more expensive: Calibration.

Roger Cicala of lensrentals.com in another post (not the one quoted earlier in the thread) was writing about sample variation and how shocked the average photographer would be at the differences between even high end pro lenses right out of the box.    Since as part of their business, they routinely re-align elements and test the lenses very carefully, he pondered how much effort would go in to making sure every lens is perfectly tweaked before it leaves the factory.

He reckoned it'd about triple the cost of the lens.  Which, he noted, is about what Cine lenses go for...

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Re: Why are Cine Lenses so expensive?
« Reply #36 on: October 14, 2014, 10:34:29 PM »

dgatwood

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Re: Why are Cine Lenses so expensive?
« Reply #37 on: October 15, 2014, 03:10:18 PM »
Another reason Cine lenses are more expensive: Calibration.

Roger Cicala of lensrentals.com in another post (not the one quoted earlier in the thread) was writing about sample variation and how shocked the average photographer would be at the differences between even high end pro lenses right out of the box.    Since as part of their business, they routinely re-align elements and test the lenses very carefully, he pondered how much effort would go in to making sure every lens is perfectly tweaked before it leaves the factory.

He reckoned it'd about triple the cost of the lens.  Which, he noted, is about what Cine lenses go for...

That might be true if you have a person do it.  If you design an automated calibration rig that tunes each lens precisely before final assembly, it would be a fixed equipment cost that, amortized over millions of lenses, should have minimal impact on the cost of the lens.

The big cost of Cine lenses is lack of amortization.  All of the design is spread across a much smaller number of lenses, because most people don't demand parfocal lenses for still photography (even though they really should).  If Canon designed every lens to be parfocal, the impact of parfocal designs on the cost of lenses should also be pretty small.  The same goes for other design decisions, such as lack of focus breathing.

So basically, they're expensive because not many people buy them, and not many people buy them because they're expensive.  The day someone new enters the market and decides to make all their general-purpose lenses be up to Cine lens standards, Canon will suddenly find ways to bring the cost down.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 03:14:48 PM by dgatwood »

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Re: Why are Cine Lenses so expensive?
« Reply #37 on: October 15, 2014, 03:10:18 PM »