October 22, 2014, 03:14:49 AM

Author Topic: Tony Northrup - D810 vs. 5D Mk3  (Read 28862 times)

9VIII

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Re: Tony Northrup - D810 vs. 5D Mk3
« Reply #30 on: August 08, 2014, 08:59:18 PM »
They say that if you want to make money from photography, you need to teach photography, not do photography.  Scott Kelby has done rather well with this model.

Yup.
Fact of the matter is someone can learn in minutes what took days with a film camera.
With the barrier to entry so low, "photographer" now describes a type of consumer more than it does a service provider.

I was a victim of this low barrier to entry when we hired a photographer for my wedding who basically took mediocre snapshots all night long.
We weren't trying to save any money (and the guy wasn't cheap either). He had shot a friend's wedding with a partner and had been recommended by the friend. We weren't aware that the partnership had dissolved and the other guy was really all the goods.
He took terrible images, missed half of our families (there isn't a picture of my parents with us), had to be threatened with legal action to recover the images, and never delivered the albums.
If he had needed to go through the effort of learning photography techniques like in the old days, he would have probably learned a bit about shooting weddings and about professionalism on the way.

Now it's up to the consumers to wise up and realize good things don't come cheap and anyone with a camera is not a photographer.

Very unfortunate.
I have no doubt that it would be possible for someone to pick up a camera and produce quality work in a short period of time, it's just impossible to tell who has or hasn't done their homework by looking at them (or their equipment).


There is something about this guy, that makes me unable to watch any of this videos through. I honestly don't know what it is, and it has nothing to do with his brand preferences (the first video of his I watched was entirely Canon related, and I still couldn't get through it)...I think it's the way he talks. I dunno...just can't watch him.

The music in the intro was grating? All style no substance?

I have to say that I like how MichaelTheMentor does things, I don't always agree with him but his videos are like an all night buffet compared to the neon packaged low calorie snacks you get with most reviews.
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Re: Tony Northrup - D810 vs. 5D Mk3
« Reply #30 on: August 08, 2014, 08:59:18 PM »

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Tony Northrup - D810 vs. 5D Mk3
« Reply #31 on: August 08, 2014, 10:19:33 PM »
There is something about this guy, that makes me unable to watch any of this videos through. I honestly don't know what it is, and it has nothing to do with his brand preferences (the first video of his I watched was entirely Canon related, and I still couldn't get through it)...I think it's the way he talks. I dunno...just can't watch him.

I guess just one of those things. I kinda liked the style.

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Re: Tony Northrup - D810 vs. 5D Mk3
« Reply #32 on: August 08, 2014, 10:34:11 PM »
Based on the RAW files that he posted, we know that he did the AF Servo test on the Canon using Spot AF...

Interesting.  Presumably, he doesn't know that Canon recommends against using Spot AF with moving subjects. 
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Re: Tony Northrup - D810 vs. 5D Mk3
« Reply #33 on: August 08, 2014, 11:17:07 PM »
Good review but, wasn't the D810 just released? Will he switch back to Canon when (if) the Mark IV comes out?






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Re: Tony Northrup - D810 vs. 5D Mk3
« Reply #34 on: August 08, 2014, 11:22:21 PM »
Good review but, wasn't the D810 just released? Will he switch back to Canon when (if) the Mark IV comes out?

Yes because that will be the new hot item that will create the most income for him. Him saying the 5d3 is better would generate little new income for him. Him recommending ppl go buy the brand new d810 will generate much more income for him.

JohnUSA

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Re: Tony Northrup - D810 vs. 5D Mk3
« Reply #35 on: August 09, 2014, 03:45:07 AM »
Geez there was a real asinine comment made by the wife at the end.... Paraphrasing... "If you have the Canon 5D3 and not a pro... don't switch to the Nikon."

The snobbiness of the video turns me off.

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Re: Tony Northrup - D810 vs. 5D Mk3
« Reply #36 on: August 09, 2014, 06:00:13 AM »
They say that if you want to make money from photography, you need to teach photography, not do photography.  Scott Kelby has done rather well with this model.

Yup.
Fact of the matter is someone can learn in minutes what took days with a film camera.
With the barrier to entry so low, "photographer" now describes a type of consumer more than it does a service provider.

I was a victim of this low barrier to entry when we hired a photographer for my wedding who basically took mediocre snapshots all night long.
We weren't trying to save any money (and the guy wasn't cheap either). He had shot a friend's wedding with a partner and had been recommended by the friend. We weren't aware that the partnership had dissolved and the other guy was really all the goods.
He took terrible images, missed half of our families (there isn't a picture of my parents with us), had to be threatened with legal action to recover the images, and never delivered the albums.
If he had needed to go through the effort of learning photography techniques like in the old days, he would have probably learned a bit about shooting weddings and about professionalism on the way.

Now it's up to the consumers to wise up and realize good things don't come cheap and anyone with a camera is not a photographer.

I'm sorry to hear you had that experience. And I don't want to sound like I'm criticising you - but I do wonder if there's a logical link between the technology and practitioners' professionalism.

I have no experience of film photography beyond point-and-shoot family/holiday snapshots from my younger days, so maybe I'm missing a lot. But I don't think good quality digital photography is easy, nor can it be mastered (especially with a DSLR) in minutes. There are cowboys in every field - and I suspect there always have been. And it seems that most of what makes wedding photography challenging is beyond the camera - it's about scouting the location, talking to the clients and understanding their needs, getting to the venue on time, having backup equipment/assistants, and producing a package (nowadays likely in book form) that merits the occasion (thinking about it, I suppose most types of photography rely on a lot more than the camera and strict photographic technique, but anyway). Given how much people spend on weddings, and wedding photographers these days, surely (at the better end) things have improved? Maybe it's an unfair comparison, but my grandparents' expectations were very limited (they were only allowed 6 shots due to rationing, and they were just snaps, nothing fancy) - whereas a recent friend's wedding involved (after much research on the best photographer for their needs) a separate shoot on location, video, a glossy hardback book, etc.

Why would shooting on film make someone more professional? Were film cameras much more expensive? I suppose proper photographers would have a darkroom, but if you were slapdash in those days, maybe you'd get someone else to do it?

Just lots of questions arise when people compare the pre-digital era with today, I hope you don't mind :)
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Re: Tony Northrup - D810 vs. 5D Mk3
« Reply #36 on: August 09, 2014, 06:00:13 AM »

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Re: Tony Northrup - D810 vs. 5D Mk3
« Reply #37 on: August 09, 2014, 06:17:15 AM »
YAWN.  Gee lets compare a camera that just came out to one that is two years old....

Hmmmm...

I think overall Canon has been sidetracked the in Cine market and this has hurt there last generation of cameras from not having quite as big jumps as they could.  Also feel they have been taking there time with this next set of upgrades which leads me to believe these next releases will be both solid and have substantially more improvement (i.e. from 5DMK II to 5DMK III the 5DMK IV will have much stronger gap of improvements)

In someways I believe the 7D MKII has been delayed because it might outperform the 5DMKIII and Canon wants to release the 7D MKII and the 3D 5DMK IV what ever it will be which will be a higher pixel with big changes

But comparing a just released camera with larger sensor to an older one?  He might as well just compared the 5DMKIII to the 5D MK II

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Re: Tony Northrup - D810 vs. 5D Mk3
« Reply #38 on: August 09, 2014, 07:51:24 AM »
YAWN.  Gee lets compare a camera that just came out to one that is two years old....

But comparing a just released camera with larger sensor to an older one?  He might as well just compared the 5DMKIII to the 5D MK II

+1  Its a testament to the excellence of the 5D Mk III that it took the competition 2+ years to equal and possibly slightly surpass it!
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Re: Tony Northrup - D810 vs. 5D Mk3
« Reply #39 on: August 09, 2014, 07:56:24 AM »
YAWN.  Gee lets compare a camera that just came out to one that is two years old....

Hmmmm...

That was exactly what I was thinking, when watching the video. Image quality wise, it was clear from the beginning, what the outcome would be, just my two cents. Taking a 36 MP sensor which came from an already good camera of newer date (D4s, D800) and comparing that to a 22MP sensor, which is around 2-3 years on the market already (but still good) is kind of useless. The ability to recover shadow details in the Canon nowadays isn't on par anymore with the newer A7, A7R, 810, 800. Resolution is also better too in the newer cameras. But is that really news? I don't think so. Coming from a G12, I am just starting to shoot with the 5D3. Perhaps in a few months that IQ dilemma will bug me, but right now, not so much...
So all in all, it was a nice video, but real "news" and insight I didn't get.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2014, 03:27:25 PM by M_S »

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Re: Tony Northrup - D810 vs. 5D Mk3
« Reply #40 on: August 09, 2014, 08:17:38 AM »
Same here it is a painful chore to go through his videos all the way to the end, in my opinion she does not help much in the over all feel. Its like watching pretentious and annoying cutsy home videos of people we don't know or care about.
There is something about this guy, that makes me unable to watch any of this videos through. I honestly don't know what it is, and it has nothing to do with his brand preferences (the first video of his I watched was entirely Canon related, and I still couldn't get through it)...I think it's the way he talks. I dunno...just can't watch him.

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Re: Tony Northrup - D810 vs. 5D Mk3
« Reply #41 on: August 13, 2014, 09:57:16 PM »
Same here it is a painful chore to go through his videos all the way to the end, in my opinion she does not help much in the over all feel. Its like watching pretentious and annoying cutsy home videos of people we don't know or care about.
There is something about this guy, that makes me unable to watch any of this videos through. I honestly don't know what it is, and it has nothing to do with his brand preferences (the first video of his I watched was entirely Canon related, and I still couldn't get through it)...I think it's the way he talks. I dunno...just can't watch him.

I agree i couldn't  imagine paying money to watch their 9 hours of video they are peddling at the end!

on the cameras one thing that really interests me is the face detect metering the d810 had man that awesome i seriously hope canon do something similar.
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Re: Tony Northrup - D810 vs. 5D Mk3
« Reply #42 on: August 14, 2014, 02:22:58 AM »
I'm sorry to hear you had that experience. And I don't want to sound like I'm criticising you - but I do wonder if there's a logical link between the technology and practitioners' professionalism.

I have no experience of film photography beyond point-and-shoot family/holiday snapshots from my younger days, so maybe I'm missing a lot. But I don't think good quality digital photography is easy, nor can it be mastered (especially with a DSLR) in minutes. There are cowboys in every field - and I suspect there always have been. And it seems that most of what makes wedding photography challenging is beyond the camera - it's about scouting the location, talking to the clients and understanding their needs, getting to the venue on time, having backup equipment/assistants, and producing a package (nowadays likely in book form) that merits the occasion (thinking about it, I suppose most types of photography rely on a lot more than the camera and strict photographic technique, but anyway). Given how much people spend on weddings, and wedding photographers these days, surely (at the better end) things have improved? Maybe it's an unfair comparison, but my grandparents' expectations were very limited (they were only allowed 6 shots due to rationing, and they were just snaps, nothing fancy) - whereas a recent friend's wedding involved (after much research on the best photographer for their needs) a separate shoot on location, video, a glossy hardback book, etc.

Why would shooting on film make someone more professional? Were film cameras much more expensive? I suppose proper photographers would have a darkroom, but if you were slapdash in those days, maybe you'd get someone else to do it?

Just lots of questions arise when people compare the pre-digital era with today, I hope you don't mind :)


Not at all, I was probably not clear. I have nothing against technology, and more than half of my photography experience happened after the digital era. So I know very little of pre-digital era to be able to compare. All I am saying is that the low barrier to entry into professional photography hurts both the real pros as well as the consumers. Why does digital allow a lower barrier to entry? At least 2 reasons:

1. Availability of preview- my photographer often snapped multiple images with the same setting. It's cheap with digital to shoot multiple shots, and preview allows you to fix mistakes. A film photographer who has to give something to the clients at the end of the job, will have to know what settings work or else he might have a completely useless roll.

2. Option of multiple ISOs and post processing- can you imagine a photographer with little or no idea of lighting (as mine was, sadly) walk in with a roll of film and be confident that it will work?

As you said- good quality digital photography isn't easy. Good photography will demand the same hard work and talent but produce far better results in the digital age. However, anybody with a dSLR can now start a business and charge pennies to attract customers. Without the tools above, someone would need at least a minimal training to use film SLRs. Along the way, he would hopefully learn something about composition, the necessary shots, the necessary people who you need to take pictures of.

The solution, of course, is for the customers to be more careful of whom they hire.
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Re: Tony Northrup - D810 vs. 5D Mk3
« Reply #42 on: August 14, 2014, 02:22:58 AM »

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Re: Tony Northrup - D810 vs. 5D Mk3
« Reply #43 on: August 14, 2014, 04:38:23 AM »

I was a victim of this low barrier to entry when we hired a photographer for my wedding who basically took mediocre snapshots all night long.
...He took terrible images, missed half of our families (there isn't a picture of my parents with us), had to be threatened with legal action to recover the images, and never delivered the albums.

Made just about the same experience recently at the wedding of my best friend's son. In this case the wedding photographer they hired didn't miss anyone and delivered the young couple thousands of - really bad - snapshots. I already noticed during the wedding that this guy must have no feel for good images. Fortunately my wife grabbed her Nikon and I my 5D3 + 85/1.2 II (only) when we started, so we both filled in a bit. It turned out that the young couple is so happy about having our much better images besides this "pro" 's crab (the bride's parents have paid for), in particular they love the images I shot with the 85.

Now those are my - of course very personal - 50 cents: I am so much in love with my 5D3+85/1.2 combo (besides other great Canon lenses) that I'd never change systems as long as Sonikon does not offer anything that equals the 85/1.2 king of bokeh. Plus the 5D3's AF system really shines with this superfast lens beast. Btw comparing a 5D3 with the D810's latest features is not really fair, because the 5D3 is a 3 yrs old camera, and technology is rapidly progressing. If you always want the latest camera technology, you'd have to change systems about every six months...
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Re: Tony Northrup - D810 vs. 5D Mk3
« Reply #44 on: August 14, 2014, 07:01:39 AM »
Disagree if you may, but give the man his due.

No. And here's why.

Again (Dilbert), nobody argues that the Noink doesn't have better DR. But - and it's a big "but" - his test has used a single converter (Lightroom) which, good as it is in many respects, does not allow you to pull up Canon shadows cleanly the way that some other converters can.

DPP, for example, has an almost miraculous ability to "add DR" in the shadows compared to Lr; Optics Pro is good too, albeit not as good as it could be in reaching into just the shadows.

Capture One 7 is also vey capable.

The point is that the supposed huge gulf between these cameras can be significantly narrowed simply an by intelligent choice of converter.

That this test used a converter which does not favour Canon shadows (at x00% view, anyway - FFS) tells you far more about the converter than it does about the camera, and for a supposedly pro tester/photographer to utterly ignore the significance of choice of converter in getting the best out of a camera's files, is risible.

You don't test well by testing in some supposedly equal playing field (in this case a commonly-used converter); you test in such as way as to get the best out of each camera, and that will often necessitate different converter choices.

Ergo, this "test" proves nothing about what the 5D Mk III can do compared with the D810, just what it did do in a half-arsed effort which seems more intended to bring attention to the testers than to the cameras...
« Last Edit: August 14, 2014, 07:06:44 AM by Keith_Reeder »

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Re: Tony Northrup - D810 vs. 5D Mk3
« Reply #44 on: August 14, 2014, 07:01:39 AM »