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Author Topic: Another Canon Medium Format Mention  (Read 13173 times)

Sporgon

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Re: Another Canon Medium Format Mention
« Reply #30 on: August 12, 2014, 02:21:20 AM »
Maybe it's something a little different, like a Square Format sensor which could utilise many current EF lenses' image circle? 36 x 36mm may be a little much but perhaps something greater than the 24mm width/height. Even if the lenses projected a solid circular outline right up to the 3:2 sensor's corners rather than fading, there'd still be room to extend the lesser of the two dimensions as the other's reduced to, say, 4:3 or 1:1?... maybe that's what's going on with this new 7D2 sensor tech - a taller APS-C width sensor to shoot Square Format images at around 23 x 23mm?!

Oooooh...

I'm done. Carry on ;)

You just failed your 'Ordinary' level maths  ;)

I really must have 'cause I've no idea where you're saying I've messed up, ha! Really, before everyone else notices, where'd I screw up and how many times? :p

EDIT: Wait... is it because this thread's about >35mm Film size? Heh, alright, how's 24 x 24.1mm for that 7D2? It's greater than a 35mm frame in one dimension then, at least ;)

No, it's because you can fit a rectangle inside a circle of a given diameter that has a longer side closer to the circle diameter than a square can be. Because circles are round and squares are, well, square  ;)

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Re: Another Canon Medium Format Mention
« Reply #30 on: August 12, 2014, 02:21:20 AM »

wockawocka

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Re: Another Canon Medium Format Mention
« Reply #31 on: August 12, 2014, 03:32:59 AM »
One thing Canon would lead on is the flash system. Medium format ETTL flash solutions mostly suck. As a H4D50 user te ETTL solution for that camera is clumsy. I never got on with it.

privatebydesign

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Re: Another Canon Medium Format Mention
« Reply #32 on: August 12, 2014, 11:58:00 AM »
Just out of interest, what flashes are you using at 1/1600 sync?

Schneider Kreuznach  has some 1/1600th second sync leaf shutter lenses for the PhaseOne system. They are apparently extremely good...I think the price starts at around six grand for a 28mm prime.

You might find this article insightful:

http://www.kern-photo.com/2013/01/why-leaf-shutter-lenses-matter/

No, I wasn't interested in the shutter, I have been shooting leaf shutter lenses since the mid seventies, I was interested in what flash puts out a decent amount of usable power in under 1/1600 sec.

Leaf shutters are often held up as some kind of golden bullet, especially here, but they have all sorts of their own issues (I own four) and what people seem to fail to grasp is that flash duration at decent power levels is normally much longer than 1/1600.
Too often we lose sight of the fact that photography is about capturing light, if we have the ability to take control of that light then we grow exponentially as photographers. More often than not the image is not about lens speed, sensor size, DR, MP's or AF, it is about the light.

jrista

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Re: Another Canon Medium Format Mention
« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2014, 12:07:06 PM »
Just out of interest, what flashes are you using at 1/1600 sync?

Schneider Kreuznach  has some 1/1600th second sync leaf shutter lenses for the PhaseOne system. They are apparently extremely good...I think the price starts at around six grand for a 28mm prime.

You might find this article insightful:

http://www.kern-photo.com/2013/01/why-leaf-shutter-lenses-matter/

No, I wasn't interested in the shutter, I have been shooting leaf shutter lenses since the mid seventies, I was interested in what flash puts out a decent amount of usable power in under 1/1600 sec.

Leaf shutters are often held up as some kind of golden bullet, especially here, but they have all sorts of their own issues (I own four) and what people seem to fail to grasp is that flash duration at decent power levels is normally much longer than 1/1600.

As I understand it, the higher sync speed allows you to shoot, with flash, at MUCH faster apertures in brighter ambient light than you are normally able to with slower sync speeds. If you read the article I linked, it becomes pretty clear why people want a high flash sync and how they use it.

privatebydesign

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Re: Another Canon Medium Format Mention
« Reply #34 on: August 12, 2014, 01:00:53 PM »
Just out of interest, what flashes are you using at 1/1600 sync?

Schneider Kreuznach  has some 1/1600th second sync leaf shutter lenses for the PhaseOne system. They are apparently extremely good...I think the price starts at around six grand for a 28mm prime.

You might find this article insightful:

http://www.kern-photo.com/2013/01/why-leaf-shutter-lenses-matter/

No, I wasn't interested in the shutter, I have been shooting leaf shutter lenses since the mid seventies, I was interested in what flash puts out a decent amount of usable power in under 1/1600 sec.

Leaf shutters are often held up as some kind of golden bullet, especially here, but they have all sorts of their own issues (I own four) and what people seem to fail to grasp is that flash duration at decent power levels is normally much longer than 1/1600.

As I understand it, the higher sync speed allows you to shoot, with flash, at MUCH faster apertures in brighter ambient light than you are normally able to with slower sync speeds. If you read the article I linked, it becomes pretty clear why people want a high flash sync and how they use it.

Yes, I know all that and it wasn't the answer to my question, which was pretty simple, what flash is R Gomez using when he is syncing at 1/1600.

More specifically I'd like to know which flash model so I can look up the t1 time and look at the duration at various power settings. It would be nice to know the specific leaf shutter lenses he is using so we can work out the effective second aperture too. I don't want more links, just an answer to a simple question.
Too often we lose sight of the fact that photography is about capturing light, if we have the ability to take control of that light then we grow exponentially as photographers. More often than not the image is not about lens speed, sensor size, DR, MP's or AF, it is about the light.

Sporgon

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Re: Another Canon Medium Format Mention
« Reply #35 on: August 12, 2014, 02:21:47 PM »
As I understand it, the higher sync speed allows you to shoot, with flash, at MUCH faster apertures in brighter ambient light than you are normally able to with slower sync speeds. If you read the article I linked, it becomes pretty clear why people want a high flash sync and how they use it.

What about HSS ? Since flashes have had this I've never missed a leaf shutter. Nowadays you can even have your slave flashes HSS, so unless you're needing more fill in light than a number of powerful Speedlites can supply I really don't get this whole "I want a leaf shutter" thing.

Or being predominantly a landscape / crumbled old buildings sort of photographer am I missing something ?

RLPhoto

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Re: Another Canon Medium Format Mention
« Reply #36 on: August 12, 2014, 04:54:26 PM »
Just out of interest, what flashes are you using at 1/1600 sync?

Schneider Kreuznach  has some 1/1600th second sync leaf shutter lenses for the PhaseOne system. They are apparently extremely good...I think the price starts at around six grand for a 28mm prime.

You might find this article insightful:

http://www.kern-photo.com/2013/01/why-leaf-shutter-lenses-matter/

No, I wasn't interested in the shutter, I have been shooting leaf shutter lenses since the mid seventies, I was interested in what flash puts out a decent amount of usable power in under 1/1600 sec.

Leaf shutters are often held up as some kind of golden bullet, especially here, but they have all sorts of their own issues (I own four) and what people seem to fail to grasp is that flash duration at decent power levels is normally much longer than 1/1600.

As I understand it, the higher sync speed allows you to shoot, with flash, at MUCH faster apertures in brighter ambient light than you are normally able to with slower sync speeds. If you read the article I linked, it becomes pretty clear why people want a high flash sync and how they use it.

Yes, I know all that and it wasn't the answer to my question, which was pretty simple, what flash is R Gomez using when he is syncing at 1/1600.

More specifically I'd like to know which flash model so I can look up the t1 time and look at the duration at various power settings. It would be nice to know the specific leaf shutter lenses he is using so we can work out the effective second aperture too. I don't want more links, just an answer to a simple question.

The broncolor scoro S series is probably the best option with some parabolics to keep as much power in those durations. On the cheaper side, the PCB Einsteins @ half power will sync with my H3D with little power loss on the standard cyber commander @ 1/800th. Which can still push a big octobox or a PLM pretty far in daylight.

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Re: Another Canon Medium Format Mention
« Reply #36 on: August 12, 2014, 04:54:26 PM »

Lee Jay

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Re: Another Canon Medium Format Mention
« Reply #37 on: August 12, 2014, 06:08:15 PM »
Just out of interest, what flashes are you using at 1/1600 sync?

Schneider Kreuznach  has some 1/1600th second sync leaf shutter lenses for the PhaseOne system. They are apparently extremely good...I think the price starts at around six grand for a 28mm prime.

You might find this article insightful:

http://www.kern-photo.com/2013/01/why-leaf-shutter-lenses-matter/

No, I wasn't interested in the shutter, I have been shooting leaf shutter lenses since the mid seventies, I was interested in what flash puts out a decent amount of usable power in under 1/1600 sec.

Leaf shutters are often held up as some kind of golden bullet, especially here, but they have all sorts of their own issues (I own four) and what people seem to fail to grasp is that flash duration at decent power levels is normally much longer than 1/1600.

I measured my 580ex flashes at 1/800th for full power, so that would likely be a tad over half power at 1/1600th.

privatebydesign

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Re: Another Canon Medium Format Mention
« Reply #38 on: August 12, 2014, 06:25:39 PM »
Just out of interest, what flashes are you using at 1/1600 sync?

Schneider Kreuznach  has some 1/1600th second sync leaf shutter lenses for the PhaseOne system. They are apparently extremely good...I think the price starts at around six grand for a 28mm prime.

You might find this article insightful:

http://www.kern-photo.com/2013/01/why-leaf-shutter-lenses-matter/

No, I wasn't interested in the shutter, I have been shooting leaf shutter lenses since the mid seventies, I was interested in what flash puts out a decent amount of usable power in under 1/1600 sec.

Leaf shutters are often held up as some kind of golden bullet, especially here, but they have all sorts of their own issues (I own four) and what people seem to fail to grasp is that flash duration at decent power levels is normally much longer than 1/1600.

I measured my 580ex flashes at 1/800th for full power, so that would likely be a tad over half power at 1/1600th.

There is no way you are getting GN58 at 1/800 from a 580EX, my experience is losing just over one stop, so a little underr 1/2 power once you go over sync, then one stop loss per shutter speed increase, which makes sense because you get half as many pulses in half the time.

So for a 1/250 sync with a single speedlite in HSS I get < 1/2 power at 1/320th, then <1/4 power at 1/640, and <1/8 @ 1/1200.
Too often we lose sight of the fact that photography is about capturing light, if we have the ability to take control of that light then we grow exponentially as photographers. More often than not the image is not about lens speed, sensor size, DR, MP's or AF, it is about the light.

Lee Jay

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Re: Another Canon Medium Format Mention
« Reply #39 on: August 12, 2014, 06:57:25 PM »
Just out of interest, what flashes are you using at 1/1600 sync?
Schneider Kreuznach  has some 1/1600th second sync leaf shutter lenses for the PhaseOne system. They are apparently extremely good...I think the price starts at around six grand for a 28mm prime.

You might find this article insightful:

http://www.kern-photo.com/2013/01/why-leaf-shutter-lenses-matter/

No, I wasn't interested in the shutter, I have been shooting leaf shutter lenses since the mid seventies, I was interested in what flash puts out a decent amount of usable power in under 1/1600 sec.

Leaf shutters are often held up as some kind of golden bullet, especially here, but they have all sorts of their own issues (I own four) and what people seem to fail to grasp is that flash duration at decent power levels is normally much longer than 1/1600.

I measured my 580ex flashes at 1/800th for full power, so that would likely be a tad over half power at 1/1600th.

There is no way you are getting GN58 at 1/800 from a 580EX, my experience is losing just over one stop, so a little underr 1/2 power once you go over sync, then one stop loss per shutter speed increase, which makes sense because you get half as many pulses in half the time.

So for a 1/250 sync with a single speedlite in HSS I get < 1/2 power at 1/320th, then <1/4 power at 1/640, and <1/8 @ 1/1200.

That's not what I said.

I'll say it differently.

If you fire the 580ex at full power, the flash pulse lasts about 1/800th of a second.

privatebydesign

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Re: Another Canon Medium Format Mention
« Reply #40 on: August 12, 2014, 07:29:45 PM »
Ah, sorry Lee Jay, that makes more sense.
Too often we lose sight of the fact that photography is about capturing light, if we have the ability to take control of that light then we grow exponentially as photographers. More often than not the image is not about lens speed, sensor size, DR, MP's or AF, it is about the light.

Khufu

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Re: Another Canon Medium Format Mention
« Reply #41 on: August 12, 2014, 08:15:44 PM »
Maybe it's something a little different, like a Square Format sensor which could utilise many current EF lenses' image circle? 36 x 36mm may be a little much but perhaps something greater than the 24mm width/height. Even if the lenses projected a solid circular outline right up to the 3:2 sensor's corners rather than fading, there'd still be room to extend the lesser of the two dimensions as the other's reduced to, say, 4:3 or 1:1?... maybe that's what's going on with this new 7D2 sensor tech - a taller APS-C width sensor to shoot Square Format images at around 23 x 23mm?!

Oooooh...

I'm done. Carry on ;)

You just failed your 'Ordinary' level maths  ;)

I really must have 'cause I've no idea where you're saying I've messed up, ha! Really, before everyone else notices, where'd I screw up and how many times? :p

EDIT: Wait... is it because this thread's about >35mm Film size? Heh, alright, how's 24 x 24.1mm for that 7D2? It's greater than a 35mm frame in one dimension then, at least ;)

No, it's because you can fit a rectangle inside a circle of a given diameter that has a longer side closer to the circle diameter than a square can be. Because circles are round and squares are, well, square  ;)

Dude, that was taken into consideration, repeatedly, hence the notes on reducing the wider dimension as the shorter one's increased to achieve the mentioned aspect ratios and the statement about 36 x 36mm being a little much but something from 24mm upwards being a possibility - I really thought I'd missed something but now I'm just wondering if "you just failed your Ordinary Level Reading Skills" - which is a much bitchier thing to say on these forums than I care to but... you started it ;)
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Sporgon

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Re: Another Canon Medium Format Mention
« Reply #42 on: August 13, 2014, 06:49:07 AM »
Maybe it's something a little different, like a Square Format sensor which could utilise many current EF lenses' image circle? 36 x 36mm may be a little much but perhaps something greater than the 24mm width/height. Even if the lenses projected a solid circular outline right up to the 3:2 sensor's corners rather than fading, there'd still be room to extend the lesser of the two dimensions as the other's reduced to, say, 4:3 or 1:1?... maybe that's what's going on with this new 7D2 sensor tech - a taller APS-C width sensor to shoot Square Format images at around 23 x 23mm?!

Oooooh...

I'm done. Carry on ;)

You just failed your 'Ordinary' level maths  ;)

I really must have 'cause I've no idea where you're saying I've messed up, ha! Really, before everyone else notices, where'd I screw up and how many times? :p

EDIT: Wait... is it because this thread's about >35mm Film size? Heh, alright, how's 24 x 24.1mm for that 7D2? It's greater than a 35mm frame in one dimension then, at least ;)

No, it's because you can fit a rectangle inside a circle of a given diameter that has a longer side closer to the circle diameter than a square can be. Because circles are round and squares are, well, square  ;)

Dude, that was taken into consideration, repeatedly, hence the notes on reducing the wider dimension as the shorter one's increased to achieve the mentioned aspect ratios and the statement about 36 x 36mm being a little much but something from 24mm upwards being a possibility - I really thought I'd missed something but now I'm just wondering if "you just failed your Ordinary Level Reading Skills" - which is a much bitchier thing to say on these forums than I care to but... you started it ;)

Don't take it personally, I was only joking. Don't try a career in photography if you're this thin skinned - you'll end up a nervous wreck.

You say "36x36 being a little too much." Wrong. It would be far too much as far as practical use is concerned. Draw a 36x24 rectangle, then use a compass to draw a circle around it. Then try lifting the 24mm sides to form a 36x36 square and you will see just how large the image circle would have to be to accommodate this format.

You say make it a 4:3 ratio by shortening the long side and increasing the short, and this was made in the context of your post referring to larger sensors, yet that would give precisely the same size sensor in terms of area.

With regard to making the APS-c size square to increase sensor size, this could be accommodated using the EF FF lenses but you would still end up with a sensor that is smaller ( in area ) than the APS-h, so again that would be pointless unless you happen to like square pictures which few people do.

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Re: Another Canon Medium Format Mention
« Reply #42 on: August 13, 2014, 06:49:07 AM »