October 02, 2014, 04:26:42 AM

Author Topic: Medium Format Announcement a "Longshot at Best"  (Read 3196 times)

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Medium Format Announcement a "Longshot at Best"
« on: August 12, 2014, 12:45:20 PM »

We’re told by a pretty good source that any announcement in regards to a medium format entry by Canon is a “longshot at best”. While Canon is always doing R&D on the concept, there is “nothing that is imminent”.


Another source has told us that these rumors could have “some truth to them”, but wouldn’t be shown until the Canon Expo in 2015. Canon does a technology expo every 5 years, and tend to show a lot of technologies that may or may not ever end up as a consumer product.


I’m of the belief that medium format at this time wouldn’t make much sense, especially since Canon still doesn’t have a high resolution 35mm DSLR.


cr


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Medium Format Announcement a "Longshot at Best"
« on: August 12, 2014, 12:45:20 PM »

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Medium Format Announcement a \
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2014, 01:16:27 PM »
I have to agree.  Canon does not have enough resources to design and manufacture MF lenses without taking them from some other area.  The efforts to bring out new Cinema lenses have obviously impacted the number of new EF lenses being released.  They can't afford to eliminate their bread and butter camera lens products with Sigma and the others already cutting into sales.

Canon could buy a MF manufacturer and then build on the existing product.  Then, they would not be under pressure to develop a whole host of lenses.  They won't do that because it gives other manufacturers of lenses a big advantage.

Lee Jay

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Re: Medium Format Announcement a \
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2014, 02:37:32 PM »
I’m of the belief that medium format at this time wouldn’t make much sense, especially since Canon still doesn’t have a high resolution 35mm DSLR.

Bingo.  Couldn't agree more.

unfocused

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Re: Medium Format Announcement a \
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2014, 03:15:17 PM »
I wonder if all this Medium Format noise is a diversionary tactic (assuming Canon is feeding some of it, which I am not sure they are.)

Possibility A: Feed into the rumors of a Medium Format offering and let your competitors start expending resources on something you have no intention of developing.

Possibility B: Feed into the rumors of a Medium Format offering and scare your competitors off because they know you have the cash and market positioning to dominate if you were to decide to proceed.

Seems like in either case, feeding the rumors could be a win for Canon.

Of course, I happen to think that "longshot" seriously overstates the likelihood. "When pigs fly" might be more accurate.
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RGomezPhotos

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Re: Medium Format Announcement a \
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2014, 03:18:49 PM »
Agreed. I don't think they'll make any kind of MF announcement next month. I think they'll want to milk their new DSLR tech a few years THEN come out with MF. They are doing the leg-work right with all the questions they are asking around the industry...

2016 at the earliest.
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dilbert

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Re: Medium Format Announcement a \
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2014, 09:07:57 PM »
So Canon MF will be like that 120MP APS-H sensor...

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Re: Medium Format Announcement a \
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2014, 10:08:25 PM »
I've always struggled to see why talk of "their brand" introducing a medium format system gets certain users (thankfully,  not so many on this particular forum) so excited. Sure, if it offers something truly innovative in the field, be that size, performance or price, then all existing and potential MF users should be happy, no matter which brand. All we are hearing (except maybe from Sony) is vague "Canon/Nikon are plannng a new MF system" rumours. Great, but the key word here is "system" and any MF system would be more or less completely incompatible with any manufacturer's current 35mm systems,  so who cares about brand? Once you've decided to change format, you are a free agent again and no longer tied to a mount by years of spending on lenses etc. (I refuse to use the term "investment" ). Unless of course, you are total Canon or Nikon fanboy  ;D  ;D  ;D

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Re: Medium Format Announcement a \
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2014, 10:08:25 PM »

unfocused

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Re: Medium Format Announcement a \
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2014, 11:03:04 PM »
I've always struggled to see why talk of "their brand" introducing a medium format system gets certain users (thankfully,  not so many on this particular forum) so excited...any MF system would be more or less completely incompatible with any manufacturer's current 35mm systems,  so who cares about brand?

Yes. Often the excitement is accompanied by unrealistic expectations about pricing or features that would be offered by "their brand." There are those who believe that if "their brand" were to offer a medium format camera that the mere presence of such a camera would instantly revive a market that is dying. Some even imagine that "their brand" will be able to overcome the laws of physics by, for example, offering a larger format that would be magically compatible with existing lenses.

Interestingly, many of these same people seem to have a bit of a love-hate relationship with "their brand" always complaining that it is not living up to its potential and accusing the company of being too worried about making a profit (horrors!).
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Re: Medium Format Announcement a \
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2014, 12:58:34 AM »
I wonder if they are looking at MF as a way to get more pixels, as they don't seem to be able to get much more on the current sensor fab. Bigger sensor, more pixels, but again, their goes all the R&D from APS-c and 35mm DSLR's. If Canon did decide to develop a MF, would they need to develop a sensor? The current MF systems all use a universal sensor pack from 1 of the two companies that offer them? Except leica of course. OK, enough rambling..
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Pag

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Re: Medium Format Announcement a \
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2014, 02:34:05 PM »
I've always struggled to see why talk of "their brand" introducing a medium format system gets certain users (thankfully,  not so many on this particular forum) so excited...any MF system would be more or less completely incompatible with any manufacturer's current 35mm systems,  so who cares about brand?

Yes. Often the excitement is accompanied by unrealistic expectations about pricing or features that would be offered by "their brand." There are those who believe that if "their brand" were to offer a medium format camera that the mere presence of such a camera would instantly revive a market that is dying. Some even imagine that "their brand" will be able to overcome the laws of physics by, for example, offering a larger format that would be magically compatible with existing lenses.

Interestingly, many of these same people seem to have a bit of a love-hate relationship with "their brand" always complaining that it is not living up to its potential and accusing the company of being too worried about making a profit (horrors!).

While I'm not in the market for a medium format camera, I'm interested in these rumors because they would indicate Canon is trying something new and exciting. I find the evolution of cameras has slowed to a boring pace lately -- all we see is incremental improvements to parameters that are already mostly good enough (do we really need more pixels or higher ISO?). Outside of Lytro, everything is the same old, same old. A new format would have the potential to shake things up.

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Medium Format Announcement a \
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2014, 10:13:57 PM »
not surprised (after a few days this still isn't even on page 2)

moreorless

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Re: Medium Format Announcement a \
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2014, 10:30:57 PM »
To be fair I think a lot of it isn't brand fanboyism but rather the idea that Canon or Nikon if they got into MF would look to offer either better value for money than current MF manufacturers or better performance(especially in AF/FPS).

My guess would be that if Canon are putting any research into MF its so that they could react to any Nikon/Sony release. Sony releasing a MF system would IMHO be a sign of desperation given how many lens mounts there already dealing with(all with lots of gaps) but I can see a bit more logic to Nikon. The smaller size of the F mount does seem to mean they are limited to F/1.4 AF lenses, Canons 50mm and 85mm F/1.2 lenses do likely cost them a significant number of customers after great DOF control plus Nikon aren't dealing with having to introduce cine lenses.

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Re: Medium Format Announcement a \
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2014, 04:10:13 AM »
http://www.shutterbug.com/content/medium-format-under-5k-pentax-sharply-drops-price-40mp-645d

i guess MF is not doing well.
i mean... hasselblad is making stupid P&S cameras. why?
because they need other revenues to grow.

phase one maybe is in a good position but i doubt there is much room for more MF producers.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2014, 04:29:39 AM by Lightmaster »

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Re: Medium Format Announcement a \
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2014, 04:10:13 AM »

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Re: Medium Format Announcement a \
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2014, 05:08:47 AM »
http://www.shutterbug.com/content/medium-format-under-5k-pentax-sharply-drops-price-40mp-645d

i guess MF is not doing well.
i mean... hasselblad is making stupid P&S cameras. why?
because they need other revenues to grow.

phase one maybe is in a good position but i doubt there is much room for more MF producers.

Exactly. Since Leica came with their S system the small MF pro market is quite crowded. So Canon (and Nikon according to rumours) have to deal with the economic fact that the huge investment, including a new lens line, would not be returned by revenues generated in this tiny market over a long period. Canon is big enough to make this move, it is no wonder why they are still hesitating. Pro's might not give up their Phase One or Hasselblad gear. IMHO it would only make sense if they'd try to compete with Pentax's more affordable 645D system to get more amateur enthusiasts upgrading to MF, at least landscape shooters. That would be a risky strategy, of course.

On the other hand, if such a big player as Canon or Nikon would jump on the MF train that could really boost technology, in particular the currently mediocre high ISO noise performance of many MF systems (digital backs) could profit tremendously.
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Re: Medium Format Announcement a \
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2014, 08:33:15 AM »
On the other hand, if such a big player as Canon or Nikon would jump on the MF train that could really boost technology, in particular the currently mediocre high ISO noise performance of many MF systems (digital backs) could profit tremendously.

Have you noticed the new Sony MF CMOS sensor now hitting the streets and replacing the CCD sensors in most of the products you refer to? It's a little too early to see a wide range of reviews, but that should answer your misgivings about previous MF products.

eg 645Z at http://www.techradar.com/reviews/cameras-and-camcorders/cameras/digital-slrs-hybrids/pentax-645z-1252056/review/3

Mirrorless cameras are typically 2/3 the weight of DSLRs, and much slimmer. It's only a matter of time before Sony, Nikon, Fuji or someone else offers this 44x33mm sensor in a mirrorless design, weighing no more than a 5D3. Of  course, the lenses will still be bigger and heavier than we are used to.

It could be 35mm full frame that gets beached by the alternatives of more compact (APS-C) and better IQ (cropped MF). I hope that Canon has something in the works for when they have developed their mirrorless expertise, but the right time is probably Photokina 2016 with a decent range of lenses by Photokina 2018. Meanwhile Im sticking with my 6D and FF 35mm lenses, but I'm conscious that my investment may not be for ever.
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Re: Medium Format Announcement a \
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2014, 08:33:15 AM »