November 26, 2014, 01:33:59 AM

Author Topic: A Rundown of EOS 7D Mark II Information  (Read 36416 times)

Marauder

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Re: A Rundown of EOS 7D Mark II Information
« Reply #210 on: August 16, 2014, 09:05:20 AM »
Just speculation

The same could be said of almost all of these 'known' specs.

Indeed, but the "what we’re getting is going to be true" seems to indicate high confidence that this information has a certain level of confidence. Moreover, the high frame-rate and new AF system make "sense" for this camera.  Only time will tell, but I suspect CR is pretty confident in this information.  But if the absence of wifi and touch screen is a matter of high confidence, the "reasons" behind their absence remain an interesting topic for speculation.  Needed or not, I think most of us expected the 7D2 to have them...and it's kind of interesting to wonder at the logic.  A testing failure might explain much.   
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Re: A Rundown of EOS 7D Mark II Information
« Reply #210 on: August 16, 2014, 09:05:20 AM »

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Re: A Rundown of EOS 7D Mark II Information
« Reply #211 on: August 16, 2014, 09:44:57 AM »
I owned a 650D for a short time that had the touch screen. I sold the camera pretty quick because the overall package didn't suit me at all, but the touch screen worked well, complementing the physical buttons. I had the usual touch screen issues such as use with gloves, not working if the camera was warm and my hands very cold, then being slow to adjust back to physical menu after being used to touch screen. Greasy screen no big deal, wipes away real quick.

I think the touch screen will eventually make it's way to pro orientated camera as a compliment to the physical controls- unlike pop up flash. If it is not included in the 7DII there will be a valid reason for its omission I'm sure.

Not sure about the aircraft cockpit analogy. There isn't the same momentum of sales drive to a massive audience in aircraft. Also all pilots are trained and the many who fly commercially are obviously (hopefully !) professionals. If the only people who used dslr cameras were genuine full time professionals I wonder where the dslr would be now in its development ? Probably still at the 1D / D2 stage, as professionals are notorious for finding a piece of equipment that does the job for them and then staying with it.

What I am going to find interesting is price / spec combination because it will give an insight into how secure the likes of Canon are with their FF premium mark up, and if we are unlikely to see FF coming down in price. Assuming the rumoured specs are anything like correct, if it is priced at about the 6D then Canon are very confident in the FF advantage. However if it's much more expensive then they clearly are not.

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Re: A Rundown of EOS 7D Mark II Information
« Reply #212 on: August 16, 2014, 09:48:14 AM »

Indeed, but the "what we’re getting is going to be true" seems to indicate high confidence that this information has a certain level of confidence.

Perhaps.  Note however the lack of a [CR3] designation – rather, this front page post seems to be a restatement of an earlier [CR2] post.  The length of this thread says that restatement has served it's purpose of driving site traffic...

The original [CR2] post about no wifi was updated to read: "We’ve been told that the omission of the wifi in the 7D replacement is due to how the body is designed. The durable full metal body would make wifi transmission unreliable at best."  To me, that renders the source questionable, as there are a variety of simple engineering solutions to that problem which Canon could have implemented. 

Consider the following two previous CR2 posts:

Quote from: Canon Rumors
We're told there are tons of new DSLR products coming for Photokina this September.

We’re getting more confirmations that the EF 100-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS will be replaced by a new version with a rotating zoom instead of the push/pull design that the lens currently uses.

Quote from: Canon Rumors
I’ve been told to expect two more announcements before Photokina begins in September.

We were recently told that a new EF 100-400 f/4-5.6L IS was coming sooner than we originally thought.

Both [CR2] like the original mentions of the 7DII info under discussion.  Both mentions of the new 100-400L sound pretty confident.  However, one refers to the upcoming Photokina meeting, while the other refers to the Photokina held in 2012. 
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dilbert

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Re: A Rundown of EOS 7D Mark II Information
« Reply #213 on: August 16, 2014, 10:02:13 AM »
...
The original [CR2] post about no wifi was updated to read: "We’ve been told that the omission of the wifi in the 7D replacement is due to how the body is designed. The durable full metal body would make wifi transmission unreliable at best."  To me, that renders the source questionable, as there are a variety of simple engineering solutions to that problem which Canon could have implemented. 
....

Since it is so simple, why don't you demonstrate this by producing a fully fledged design where it works in the manner expected and required? I'm sure that Canon's team of engineers that develop cameras would love to get input from an expert like yourself.

Marauder

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Re: A Rundown of EOS 7D Mark II Information
« Reply #214 on: August 16, 2014, 10:42:41 AM »

Indeed, but the "what we’re getting is going to be true" seems to indicate high confidence that this information has a certain level of confidence.

Perhaps.  Note however the lack of a [CR3] designation – rather, this front page post seems to be a restatement of an earlier [CR2] post.  The length of this thread says that restatement has served it's purpose of driving site traffic...

The original [CR2] post about no wifi was updated to read: "We’ve been told that the omission of the wifi in the 7D replacement is due to how the body is designed. The durable full metal body would make wifi transmission unreliable at best."  To me, that renders the source questionable, as there are a variety of simple engineering solutions to that problem which Canon could have implemented. 

Consider the following two previous CR2 posts:

Quote from: Canon Rumors
We're told there are tons of new DSLR products coming for Photokina this September.

We’re getting more confirmations that the EF 100-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS will be replaced by a new version with a rotating zoom instead of the push/pull design that the lens currently uses.

Quote from: Canon Rumors
I’ve been told to expect two more announcements before Photokina begins in September.

We were recently told that a new EF 100-400 f/4-5.6L IS was coming sooner than we originally thought.

Both [CR2] like the original mentions of the 7DII info under discussion.  Both mentions of the new 100-400L sound pretty confident.  However, one refers to the upcoming Photokina meeting, while the other refers to the Photokina held in 2012.

True, there is no CR# for this at all, and that's odd.  If they're right, we will know for sure in 3 weeks or so.  I suspect they are correct, but only time will tell.  Regardless, speculation about a product that one finds exciting is FUN!  Well, at least I think it is anyway....   :o
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Marauder

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Re: A Rundown of EOS 7D Mark II Information
« Reply #215 on: August 16, 2014, 11:39:40 AM »
What is the general consensus?  I suspect these specs will be fairly accurate because and that the camera will be announced in September because:

1. CR seems fairly confident, both about specs and an imminent announcement.
2. Canon is due for a major camera release.
3. The specs are very similar to previously published specs regarding prototypes.
4. The specs make sense for this camera and its target market!

Anyone else agree, or have a contrary opinion?
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unfocused

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Re: A Rundown of EOS 7D Mark II Information
« Reply #216 on: August 16, 2014, 11:47:24 AM »
The original [CR2] post about no wifi was updated to read: "We’ve been told that the omission of the wifi in the 7D replacement is due to how the body is designed. The durable full metal body would make wifi transmission unreliable at best."  To me, that renders the source questionable, as there are a variety of simple engineering solutions to that problem which Canon could have implemented. 

I think the touch screen will eventually make it's way to pro orientated camera as a compliment to the physical controls- unlike pop up flash. If it is not included in the 7DII there will be a valid reason for its omission I'm sure.

If this rumor is true (and that's a big "if") then I am inclined to think that the omission of both wifi and touch screen are due to engineering limitations not marketing decisions. There are good, solid reasons why both should be included in a flagship APS-C camera.

As someone else stated, not having a touch screen will be a tremendous handicap for video. I can't believe Canon would omit this feature lightly. In fact, if you are not going to have a touchscreen, I'm not even sure why you would implement dual-pixel technology.

Similarly, I can't see Canon giving up wi-fi if they could avoid it. Again, the lack of the feature will make the camera less attractive for a certain buying segment and I don't think they would do that without some solid engineering reason not to.

I don't know what to make of this, except that I think it does open up the possibility that this body will really be much closer to a 1DX in build quality than to a 5DIII.

No touchscreen and no wi-fi because the body is bombproof?
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Re: A Rundown of EOS 7D Mark II Information
« Reply #216 on: August 16, 2014, 11:47:24 AM »

Marauder

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Re: A Rundown of EOS 7D Mark II Information
« Reply #217 on: August 16, 2014, 12:00:17 PM »
The original [CR2] post about no wifi was updated to read: "We’ve been told that the omission of the wifi in the 7D replacement is due to how the body is designed. The durable full metal body would make wifi transmission unreliable at best."  To me, that renders the source questionable, as there are a variety of simple engineering solutions to that problem which Canon could have implemented. 

I think the touch screen will eventually make it's way to pro orientated camera as a compliment to the physical controls- unlike pop up flash. If it is not included in the 7DII there will be a valid reason for its omission I'm sure.

If this rumor is true (and that's a big "if") then I am inclined to think that the omission of both wifi and touch screen are due to engineering limitations not marketing decisions. There are good, solid reasons why both should be included in a flagship APS-C camera.

As someone else stated, not having a touch screen will be a tremendous handicap for video. I can't believe Canon would omit this feature lightly. In fact, if you are not going to have a touchscreen, I'm not even sure why you would implement dual-pixel technology.

Similarly, I can't see Canon giving up wi-fi if they could avoid it. Again, the lack of the feature will make the camera less attractive for a certain buying segment and I don't think they would do that without some solid engineering reason not to.

I don't know what to make of this, except that I think it does open up the possibility that this body will really be much closer to a 1DX in build quality than to a 5DIII.

No touchscreen and no wi-fi because the body is bombproof?


I suspect that is exactly the case.  I wouldn't be surprised if they had a LOT of different prototypes testing various features and configurations.  If the prototypes with touch screens proved too fragile for the desired build quality, it was probably scrapped as the build quality was considered the more important feature for the expected market.  Ditto wifi--if the prototypes with wifi experienced poor performance due to interference from the heavy-duty body, or the antenna proved to be a weak point in the weather sealing, it might have been decided to remove it from the design.  All of this is pure speculation of course (much more so than the actual statement of their absence itself), but I believe it's speculation that makes sense. 

I'm not sure I agree that DPAF without touch screen is without utility--true you lose a potent way of selecting focus points for video/live view, but it still allows much, much better focussing in those modes, and you can still use the thumb controller.  Also, if the patent showing conventional AF and DPAF working together is relevant to the 7D2, then that is another compelling reason to use it, notwithstanding the lack of a touch screen.
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mb66energy

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Re: A Rundown of EOS 7D Mark II Information
« Reply #218 on: August 16, 2014, 12:05:24 PM »

[...]

Similarly, I can't see Canon giving up wi-fi if they could avoid it. Again, the lack of the feature will make the camera less attractive for a certain buying segment and I don't think they would do that without some solid engineering reason not to.

I don't know what to make of this, except that I think it does open up the possibility that this body will really be much closer to a 1DX in build quality than to a 5DIII.

No touchscreen and no wi-fi because the body is bombproof?

I don't see any reason to omit Wifi and touchscreen to keep the body "bombproof". There is not need to use metal to get "bombproof". Polycarbonate and Kevlar are materials used to protect people against projectiles ...

As stated before you need just 2 or three small holes to feed antenna cables from inside to outside and build them in the card compartment flap made of HQ plastics, the battery compartment lid and perhaps in the flash socket - to get omnidirectional connectivity.
Hardened glass or saphir glass are scratch resistant and withstand high forces before they break - a standard in mid end smart phones since several years.

I see two reasons:
  - Canon feeds us to think about 70D or 7Dii and a lot of us will get both as primary and secondary body
  - Canon will give the 7Dii a "sister modell" with movie oriented features meaning touchscreen for rapid focus point selection and Wifi to do exactly that without touching (and moving) the camera.

My camera would be a EOS 40D with the touch screen and sensor of the 70D - I love the joystick controller and the overall haptics of my 40D or otherwise: I would like a 80D with controls like the former xxD models (<=50D).

So my conclusion is - if the currently anticipated specs are valid - not to buy the 7Dii but to wait another round of camera models (since 2 or 3 years).
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Don Haines

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Re: A Rundown of EOS 7D Mark II Information
« Reply #219 on: August 16, 2014, 12:14:32 PM »
No wifi or touch screen? Bummer. All future canon prosumer cameras should have BOTH wifi and touch screens IMHO.

I never liked Canon's wifi implementation.  I have had great success using an Eye-Fi card when I need that capability.  I dont think that built in wifi would be a deal breaker since it can be added later.

Can you control the camera and use live view over an eyefi card?  I have no interest whatsoever in downloading pictures over WiFi.
I have a couple of cameras with WiFi. I have yet to use either of them to download photos, but have used WiFi for taking pictures remotely.

And for those of you who say that you can't have WiFi on a metal shell camera, please explain to me why it works so well on the Olympus TG-3...
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Marauder

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Re: A Rundown of EOS 7D Mark II Information
« Reply #220 on: August 16, 2014, 12:17:30 PM »

[...]


So my conclusion is - if the currently anticipated specs are valid - not to buy the 7Dii but to wait another round of camera models (since 2 or 3 years).

That assumes everyone considers the lack of touch screen and wifi a deal breaker.  I personally don't!  They'd be nice features, but not critical ones for myself as 90% of my shooting will be with the OVF!
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Re: A Rundown of EOS 7D Mark II Information
« Reply #221 on: August 16, 2014, 12:19:30 PM »


No touchscreen and no wi-fi because the body is bombproof?


Touch Screens like Gorilla glass are stronger than anything on a DSLR today, you can also do covers on top that would still make it usable. WiFi is simple and does not need anything much to get it going good (look how small the Nikon WIFI dongle is). You have plenty of antenna areas like around the top screen or the battery and card doors or even the shutter button has plenty of room. Actually it would not be that hard to do dual-band WIFI, one wifi signal sends and another receives making live view smooth and fast.

I have to give Canon credit for the wifi and touch screen DSLRs they have out now, they are not bad and at least they're doing it in the camera unlike Nikon. Nikon makes you buy a dongle, if the camera was done correct the first time it shouldn't need a dongle for something we have on a simple thermostat or oven today.

I would love to see how a DIGIC chip compares to the stuff on smartphones today and if it would make a huge difference in buffer speeds. I know both are based off ARM designs..I need to look into that.



Marauder

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Re: A Rundown of EOS 7D Mark II Information
« Reply #222 on: August 16, 2014, 12:21:39 PM »
No wifi or touch screen? Bummer. All future canon prosumer cameras should have BOTH wifi and touch screens IMHO.

I never liked Canon's wifi implementation.  I have had great success using an Eye-Fi card when I need that capability.  I dont think that built in wifi would be a deal breaker since it can be added later.

Can you control the camera and use live view over an eyefi card?  I have no interest whatsoever in downloading pictures over WiFi.
I have a couple of cameras with WiFi. I have yet to use either of them to download photos, but have used WiFi for taking pictures remotely.

And for those of you who say that you can't have WiFi on a metal shell camera, please explain to me why it works so well on the Olympus TG-3...

I don't think that you cannot have a wifi antenna on a metal body, but implementation might be tricky.  Reflected or attenuated signals might cause reliability issues.  It could be as simple as the prototypes with wifi ran into issues that would have been time consuming and expensive to fix, resulting in further delays.
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Re: A Rundown of EOS 7D Mark II Information
« Reply #222 on: August 16, 2014, 12:21:39 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: A Rundown of EOS 7D Mark II Information
« Reply #223 on: August 16, 2014, 12:37:59 PM »
And for those of you who say that you can't have WiFi on a metal shell camera, please explain to me why it works so well on the Olympus TG-3...

+1

There are metal-shelled WiFi devices, there are devices with touchscreens (including some cameras) that are shockproof (to MIL or other accepted standards), etc.  As I stated, these are engineering problems that have been solved.

It's ok, though.  If you need wifi on your 7DII/X, Canon will happily sell you the WFT-E8A for ~$800.  ::)
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x-vision

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Re: A Rundown of EOS 7D Mark II Information
« Reply #224 on: August 16, 2014, 12:49:20 PM »
What is the general consensus?  I suspect these specs will be fairly accurate because and that the camera will be announced in September because:

1. CR seems fairly confident, both about specs and an imminent announcement.
2. Canon is due for a major camera release.
3. The specs are very similar to previously published specs regarding prototypes.
4. The specs make sense for this camera and its target market!

Anyone else agree, or have a contrary opinion?

You are basically assuming that CanonRumors somehow has correct info.
If they do, your points make sense.

The thing is, I haven't seen a single CanonRumors post on the 7DII that is anything but speculation/wishlist.

Consider this latest rundown of rumors on the 7DII:
How many megapixels will the 7DII have? And how many AF points?
These are the easy numbers for anyone with insight info - especially the megapixel count.

There's the 12fps number - but without the more important numbers, the 12fps number is not confidence  inspiring.

Overall, I think that there is no real info about the 7DII on this site ... less than a month before announcement.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2014, 12:58:20 PM by x-vision »

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Re: A Rundown of EOS 7D Mark II Information
« Reply #224 on: August 16, 2014, 12:49:20 PM »