November 28, 2014, 12:24:40 PM

Author Topic: A Rundown of EOS 7D Mark II Information  (Read 36549 times)

Marauder

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Re: A Rundown of EOS 7D Mark II Information
« Reply #225 on: August 16, 2014, 12:55:15 PM »


No touchscreen and no wi-fi because the body is bombproof?


Touch Screens like Gorilla glass are stronger than anything on a DSLR today, you can also do covers on top that would still make it usable. WiFi is simple and does not need anything much to get it going good (look how small the Nikon WIFI dongle is). You have plenty of antenna areas like around the top screen or the battery and card doors or even the shutter button has plenty of room. Actually it would not be that hard to do dual-band WIFI, one wifi signal sends and another receives making live view smooth and fast.

I have to give Canon credit for the wifi and touch screen DSLRs they have out now, they are not bad and at least they're doing it in the camera unlike Nikon. Nikon makes you buy a dongle, if the camera was done correct the first time it shouldn't need a dongle for something we have on a simple thermostat or oven today.

I would love to see how a DIGIC chip compares to the stuff on smartphones today and if it would make a huge difference in buffer speeds. I know both are based off ARM designs..I need to look into that.

I keep reading here how tough smartphone glass is compared to DSLR glass.  It's stated repeatedly as a fact, but I'm not sure if I believe that statement.  I don't know anything about Gorilla glass, so I'm not really able to say with certainty. 

That being said however, I have see quite a few iPhones and Samsung (and other brands) smartphones with screens that were all but shattered after fairly trivial drops.  (Possibly this is a generational thing and the older models, from even a couple years ago were not as tough as the latest?) On the other hand, I've watched videos of various Canon and Nikon cameras (and not 1 series or D3/D4's either--semi-pro models like 5D and 7D) being dropped down cement stairs repeatedly without damaged screens--and still functional after the "test."  Sure there was an element of showmanship and theatre to these drop tests--but they nonetheless illustrate a point. 

Is there any actual factual comparison between the glass mounted on premium DSLR's like the 1DX/D4S and the latest screens mounted to DSLR's?  It's very easy to just make a statement that smartphone glass is tougher than anything mounted to a DSLR. It'd be interesting to see a comparison.

If I sound doubtful, it's just that I see plenty of dubious statements when it comes to phone vs camera.  The notion that cell phone cameras render all other cameras, up to and including entry level DSLR's and CSC's as obsolete is simply silly and I've seen statements to that effect. It's even silly to say that the cell phone camera has killed all point and shoot cameras -- Superzooms (such as the SX50) and premium compacts (like the Sony RX and Canon G series) are holding their own.  Even the disappearance of basic compacts has to do more with the convenience than capability.  Smartphone cameras are quite amazing, but they lack optical zoom, and are thus limited to shooting wide angle, or delving into digital zoom. 

Well anyways, that last bit was a bit of a tangent to the principal point, but it's one that's been on my mind! LOL   
« Last Edit: August 16, 2014, 01:01:57 PM by Marauder »
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Re: A Rundown of EOS 7D Mark II Information
« Reply #225 on: August 16, 2014, 12:55:15 PM »

candyman

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Re: A Rundown of EOS 7D Mark II Information
« Reply #226 on: August 16, 2014, 12:58:57 PM »
.....................
Overall, I think that there is no real info about the 7DII on this site ... less than a month before announcement.


Might even be less than a few days before announcement  ::)
Wasn't that the case with the 5D MK III?

Marauder

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Re: A Rundown of EOS 7D Mark II Information
« Reply #227 on: August 16, 2014, 01:00:47 PM »
What is the general consensus?  I suspect these specs will be fairly accurate because and that the camera will be announced in September because:

1. CR seems fairly confident, both about specs and an imminent announcement.
2. Canon is due for a major camera release.
3. The specs are very similar to previously published specs regarding prototypes.
4. The specs make sense for this camera and its target market!

Anyone else agree, or have a contrary opinion?

You are basically assuming that CanonRumors somehow has correct info.
If they do, your points make sense.

The thing is, I haven't seen a single CanonRumors post on the 7DII that is anything but speculation/wishlist.

Consider this latest rundown of rumors on the 7DII:
How many megapixels will the 7DII have? And how many AF points?
There are the easy numbers for anyone with insight info - especially the megapixel number.

There's the 12fps number - but without the more important numbers, the 12fps number is not confidence  inspiring.

Overall, I think that there is no real info about the 7DII on this site ... less than a month before announcement.

We cannot know for sure if they are correct of course--we don't even have a CR# for this rumour.  But they do seem quite confident and these figures do gel with previous stats posted last year when prototypes were apparently being tested.  And they make absolute sense as well.  The camera must be a genuine step up from the 7D and 70D to be a success.  The anticipated frame rate has always been at, or north of 10 fps--again, that only makes sense.  We won't know if CR is "right" till the camera is either announced officially, or we get a CR3 attached to specs.  But these figures certainly seem sensible, given the camera's target audience. 
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x-vision

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Re: A Rundown of EOS 7D Mark II Information
« Reply #228 on: August 16, 2014, 01:03:53 PM »
But they do seem quite confident ...

But I'm not confident at all ... in their confidence 8).

Don Haines

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Re: A Rundown of EOS 7D Mark II Information
« Reply #229 on: August 16, 2014, 01:17:31 PM »

The thing is, I haven't seen a single CanonRumors post on the 7DII that is anything but speculation/wishlist.

Overall, I think that there is no real info about the 7DII on this site ... less than a month before announcement.
+1

Remember the 70D? The most important thing about it was DPAF. Remember how many rumours about DPAF on the 70D? Zero!

Remember all the rumours about the new 100-400? All these rumours over the last 4 years about how it's release was imminent? If the rumours were true it should have been released a dozen times already....

The only thing that we can say with any degree of certainty is that Canon does a very good job of keeping it's releases secret until they are officially announced. A rumour is just a rumour. It means nothing! They are just speculation on what may come.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2014, 01:19:04 PM by Don Haines »
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Marauder

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Re: A Rundown of EOS 7D Mark II Information
« Reply #230 on: August 16, 2014, 01:35:03 PM »

The thing is, I haven't seen a single CanonRumors post on the 7DII that is anything but speculation/wishlist.

Overall, I think that there is no real info about the 7DII on this site ... less than a month before announcement.
+1

Remember the 70D? The most important thing about it was DPAF. Remember how many rumours about DPAF on the 70D? Zero!

Remember all the rumours about the new 100-400? All these rumours over the last 4 years about how it's release was imminent? If the rumours were true it should have been released a dozen times already....

The only thing that we can say with any degree of certainty is that Canon does a very good job of keeping it's releases secret until they are officially announced. A rumour is just a rumour. It means nothing! They are just speculation on what may come.

LOL
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Marauder

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Re: A Rundown of EOS 7D Mark II Information
« Reply #231 on: August 16, 2014, 01:38:34 PM »

The thing is, I haven't seen a single CanonRumors post on the 7DII that is anything but speculation/wishlist.

Overall, I think that there is no real info about the 7DII on this site ... less than a month before announcement.
+1

Remember the 70D? The most important thing about it was DPAF. Remember how many rumours about DPAF on the 70D? Zero!

Remember all the rumours about the new 100-400? All these rumours over the last 4 years about how it's release was imminent? If the rumours were true it should have been released a dozen times already....

The only thing that we can say with any degree of certainty is that Canon does a very good job of keeping it's releases secret until they are officially announced. A rumour is just a rumour. It means nothing! They are just speculation on what may come.

True, but as I recall CR did scoop the basic stats about sensor resolution, frame-rate etc. just prior to the official launch.  And Canon was NOT happy about it either. 

I'm not saying there are a ton of things we won't know about the camera till it's released.  But it does seem that CR is pretty confident in what little they have heard about it.  Only time will tell, but its these little snippets that keep us coming here, right?  :o
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Re: A Rundown of EOS 7D Mark II Information
« Reply #231 on: August 16, 2014, 01:38:34 PM »

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: A Rundown of EOS 7D Mark II Information
« Reply #232 on: August 16, 2014, 02:20:45 PM »
Actual Rumors in Japanese chat forums (got infos from an japanese girlfriend:

- 400.000 Yen (>2900€) (variying 300.000-450.000 Y, most rumors on 400.000)
- designed for sports photography. >10 pps, AF speed on miirrorless camera niveau, fast and accurate AF on moving objects (tracking a lot better than actual 7D)
- operationnal design and ergonomy focused on professional use
- IQ better than 7D, more ISO-range, lesser noise. But IQ/DR is not the main optimization goal ( MK4 5D will be designed as an semiprofessional goldenegglayingwoolmilksaw for an non-professional user)

I can't wait to get my hands on a goldenegglayingwoolmilksaw with good IQ/DR for the non-pro user!

Marauder

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Re: A Rundown of EOS 7D Mark II Information
« Reply #233 on: August 16, 2014, 03:02:13 PM »
Actual Rumors in Japanese chat forums (got infos from an japanese girlfriend:

- 400.000 Yen (>2900€) (variying 300.000-450.000 Y, most rumors on 400.000)
- designed for sports photography. >10 pps, AF speed on miirrorless camera niveau, fast and accurate AF on moving objects (tracking a lot better than actual 7D)
- operationnal design and ergonomy focused on professional use
- IQ better than 7D, more ISO-range, lesser noise. But IQ/DR is not the main optimization goal ( MK4 5D will be designed as an semiprofessional goldenegglayingwoolmilksaw for an non-professional user)

I can't wait to get my hands on a goldenegglayingwoolmilksaw with good IQ/DR for the non-pro user!

You just took the goldenegglayingwoolmilksaw words right out of my mouth!  ;D
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mb66energy

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Re: A Rundown of EOS 7D Mark II Information
« Reply #234 on: August 16, 2014, 03:24:37 PM »

[...]

That being said however, I have see quite a few iPhones and Samsung (and other brands) smartphones with screens that were all but shattered after fairly trivial drops.  (Possibly this is a generational thing and the older models, from even a couple years ago were not as tough as the latest?) On the other hand, I've watched videos of various Canon and Nikon cameras (and not 1 series or D3/D4's either--semi-pro models like 5D and 7D) being dropped down cement stairs repeatedly without damaged screens--and still functional after the "test." 
[...]


Most full size display smartphones use the glass plate as structural component. I own a DEFY smartphone where the edge of the glass front is protected by 1 or 2mm of stiff plastics. I dropped it several times but not on concrete or worse material and it resided 3 years now in my left trousers pocket, some times with a 10 ct. piece rubbing on the front - not a visible scratch.

A DSLR protects the display more or less by its metal or plastic shell. In fact it is not easy to hit the display by flat ground or the edges of stairs.
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Marauder

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Re: A Rundown of EOS 7D Mark II Information
« Reply #235 on: August 16, 2014, 03:40:43 PM »

[...]

That being said however, I have see quite a few iPhones and Samsung (and other brands) smartphones with screens that were all but shattered after fairly trivial drops.  (Possibly this is a generational thing and the older models, from even a couple years ago were not as tough as the latest?) On the other hand, I've watched videos of various Canon and Nikon cameras (and not 1 series or D3/D4's either--semi-pro models like 5D and 7D) being dropped down cement stairs repeatedly without damaged screens--and still functional after the "test." 
[...]


Most full size display smartphones use the glass plate as structural component. I own a DEFY smartphone where the edge of the glass front is protected by 1 or 2mm of stiff plastics. I dropped it several times but not on concrete or worse material and it resided 3 years now in my left trousers pocket, some times with a 10 ct. piece rubbing on the front - not a visible scratch.

A DSLR protects the display more or less by its metal or plastic shell. In fact it is not easy to hit the display by flat ground or the edges of stairs.

If I'm understanding you correctly, the glass on a smartphone (even if Gorilla glass, or some very tough equivalent) is usually more vulnerable to damage because it doesn't have the same rigid structure protecting it that the screen of a DSLR enjoys.  Makes good sense.  The remaining question then, is it reasonable to presume that the possible reason the 7D2 will lack a touch screen (if the rumour is correct) is that Canon wants to provide a tougher screen to resist abrasion/damage?   The implication of "◾Not touch screen, super durable LCD cover" is that the touch screen has been left off due to durability issues, but that seems to be a controversial supposition.  I'm not versed enough on the design elements to say whether that is a reasonable design choice.  Some seem to think a touch screen should be as tough as a non-touch screen.
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Sabaki

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Re: A Rundown of EOS 7D Mark II Information
« Reply #236 on: August 16, 2014, 03:57:15 PM »
Speaking of screens, how well do the latest screens handle bright, direct sunlight these days?
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dgatwood

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Re: A Rundown of EOS 7D Mark II Information
« Reply #237 on: August 16, 2014, 04:25:16 PM »
I keep reading here how tough smartphone glass is compared to DSLR glass.  It's stated repeatedly as a fact, but I'm not sure if I believe that statement.  I don't know anything about Gorilla glass, so I'm not really able to say with certainty. 

That being said however, I have see quite a few iPhones and Samsung (and other brands) smartphones with screens that were all but shattered after fairly trivial drops.  (Possibly this is a generational thing and the older models, from even a couple years ago were not as tough as the latest?) On the other hand, I've watched videos of various Canon and Nikon cameras (and not 1 series or D3/D4's either--semi-pro models like 5D and 7D) being dropped down cement stairs repeatedly without damaged screens--and still functional after the "test."  Sure there was an element of showmanship and theatre to these drop tests--but they nonetheless illustrate a point. 

Gorilla glass is designed to be highly flexible, so that if you sit on your phone, it won't shatter.  But there's a big difference between gradual flexing and an impact, and all glass, including Gorilla glass, is susceptible to shattering upon proper impact.  That's the nature of glass.  If it were soft enough to perfectly resist impacts, it would also be soft enough to scratch in your pocket.  It's a tradeoff.  They're making great strides at improving the surface hardness of the glass so that it resists scratches that can make hard materials more likely to shatter, but it is still fundamentally a hard material.

However, all of the Canon DSLRs I've used have a plastic screen cover, and I'd be surprised if that were not true across the board.  Plastic is a lot more flexible, albeit at a cost in terms of getting scratched a lot more easily.  On the other hand, you don't put your DSLR in your pocket, so scratch resistance is less relevant.

Maybe they decided to use glass for the touchscreen models—I've never used one of those, so I can't be certain—but it certainly doesn't seem like an obvious design choice to me.  Then again, I'm not a fan of glass on cell phones, either.  I'd rather have a plastic screen cover that I can peel off and replace when it gets scratched.  It's not like that's a significant part of the cost of a phone.  Just make it disposable and be done with it.

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Re: A Rundown of EOS 7D Mark II Information
« Reply #237 on: August 16, 2014, 04:25:16 PM »

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Re: A Rundown of EOS 7D Mark II Information
« Reply #238 on: August 16, 2014, 04:27:27 PM »
@ jrista – you seem to be taking the line of thought that including a touchscreen would come at the price of removing dials/buttons, but there no reason to think that would be the case on a higher end dSLR.  Rather, a touchscreen would add functionality.  If the 7DII has improved DPAF, would you really want to drive the AF point around the frame with a joystick? 

As others have stated, touch screens are becoming the norm - on phones, on remote controls, even on microwave ovens.  Your average teenager or twenty-something can type two-thumbed on an iPhone at wpm rates faster than most people can achieve on a regular keyboard.  Those are the people becoming professional photographers today.

That's not my line of thought. My line of thought is, adding a touch screen and all the firmware requires resources at Canon to perform. They have to implement it, test it, work the bugs out of it, etc. All that...when there are other things Canon could be investing those resources into. My line of thought is, for everyone who puts lack of a Touch UI at the top of their list of deal breakers or the thing that makes them must frustrated about the 7D II...they are very short sighted. My line of thought is, while I fully agree a Touch UI is nice (I've used the EOS-M's touch UI...its nice), it is the farthest thing from the most "essential" feature that the 7D II could possibly get.

That's my line of thought. Personally, the deal breaker for me, is whether Canon does something fundamentally new with their sensor design or not. Personally, the biggest bummer for me, would be if Canon doesn't include a 1DX/5DIII class level AF system or not. Another bummer for me would be if the 7D II gets a massive video update...but still has the same old IQ issues that Canon's past cameras have had. THOSE are deal breakers. Those are real things to complain about. Those things would show that Canon has lost touch with what their customers want (which they so far have a good track record of, Canon has listened and listened well to their customers in the past), and THAT would be the single worst outcome of all with the 7D II release.

Not having a touch UI...it doesn't matter to me one way or another whether they include one or not, so long as it doesn't cause them to NOT do something that really IS a deal breaker. I'd be pissed if the 7DII hit the streets with a super awesome kick ass touch UI...and the same old freaking sensor, same old iFCL metering sensor and limited metering behavior, and worst of all...same old freakin gimped out 19pt AF system that can't reliably maintain a SOLID lock on a target. THAT would piss me off. I could care less if it has a touch UI, though.

Maybe it's just a matter of perspective. I've invested a lot of money in Canon equipment, and I want them to progress on all fronts. I don't think the inclusion or lack of a touch UI has anything to do with the fundamental bottom line for how consumers and professionals see Canon as a company, or grade their products relative to other companies. I do think, however, that Canon releasing another camera that still has the same IQ as the 5D II did so many years ago now, would have a SIGNIFICANT impact on how people perceive Canon as a company...and much like other major companies in the past, that could be the focal point that sends Canon into a long term decline, affecting their R&D budgets for the future, affecting their ability to legitimately compete on the multiple technological fronts that they are having to do battle in, etc. I don't want to be stuck with a $13,000 lens and a brand new Canon 5D V five years from now that...isn't any better than my 5D III from a fundamental IQ standpoint, while Sony sensors are literally cranking out 15.8 stop of DR with 16-bit RAW files in Nikon, Pentax, Olympus, and every other camera manufacturer on earth.

Canon has a problem. I know you do not believe that, but they do. It's a perceptual problem, and it could seriously affect their revenues and ability to fund the necessary R&D in the years to come. Such things have happened before, and often companies, even if they were on the top of the world, NEVER recover (Kodak?) So...seriously...touch screens and touch UIs?

Anyway, I'm out. Got other things to do.

20Dave

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Re: A Rundown of EOS 7D Mark II Information
« Reply #239 on: August 16, 2014, 04:28:32 PM »
  Only time will tell, but its these little snippets that keep us coming here, right?  :o

It feels like two weeks before the NFL draft, with CR playing the part of Mel Kiper.

Kiper: "Well it's a lock that Canon will be drafting a replacement for the aging 7D in the first round. It looked like a mini-1DX at the combine, and hopefully that will translate into production."
McShay: "That's probably true. However, although everyone expects a 100-400 in the second round, I wouldn't be surprised to see them to pass like they did for the last couple of years. Maybe a surprise like a 180 macro with IS, just to create a splash."

And like on sports forums, there is as much (if not more) angst about what might happen than about what actually does happen.

I'm just happy that I bought my 5D3 nearly two years ago to replace my aging 20D rather than waiting for the 7D2 (which I was strongly considering). When the 7D2 (or whatever they call it) finally comes out, it might be the best fit for my uses, but I'm more than happy enough with my current camera so I'm not really interested in moving over. As for the 100-400, if that comes out and if it has similar performance like the 70-200 II, that might be a different story.

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Re: A Rundown of EOS 7D Mark II Information
« Reply #239 on: August 16, 2014, 04:28:32 PM »