December 20, 2014, 08:13:00 AM

Author Topic: Help deciding on going full frame  (Read 5786 times)

scottkinfw

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Re: Help deciding on going full frame
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2014, 03:28:15 PM »
When you first use the 24-105 you may not understand why people don't rave about it.  Then you may try the 24-70II and you will see for yourself.  When you do, you just might never want to use it again, especially because iq is important to you.  You can zoom with your feet.  Why don't you try both lenses for yourself at a camera store before you buy?

sek
sek Cameras: 5D III, 5D II, EOS M  Lenses:  24-70 2.8 II IS, 24-105 f4L, 70-200 f4L IS, 70-200 f2.8L IS II, EF 300 f4L IS, EF 400 5.6L, 300 2.8 IS II, Samyang 14 mm 2.8 Flashes: 580 EX II600EX-RT X 2, ST-E3-RT
Plus lots of stuff that just didn't work for me

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Re: Help deciding on going full frame
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2014, 03:28:15 PM »

aprotosimaki

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Re: Help deciding on going full frame
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2014, 04:23:09 PM »
RE: 24-105mm

Not stellar but it is awesome for IR photography: no hotspot.

NancyP

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Re: Help deciding on going full frame
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2014, 12:09:51 PM »
I went to FF 6D specifically for low light work and wide angle and shallow depth of field with fast lenses wide open. There's two stops difference in noise between the 60D and 6D. 60D is now my birding camera and walkabout casual camera (15-85). My landscape, macro, starscape, etc camera is the 6D, and I expect that I will be using it with both primes and zooms. I currently have a flock of manual focus legacy lenses that I use with the 6D, while I decide what normal prime and short telephoto I want.

Rob-downunder

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Re: Help deciding on going full frame
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2014, 07:37:57 AM »
Decided to bite the bullet and have ordered the 6D, 24-105 and 16-35 f4. I should have delivery in a couple of days and am looking forward to playing with my new toys.

DRR

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Re: Help deciding on going full frame
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2014, 10:15:28 AM »
I think you'll be thrilled with that combination.

For me the jump from 7D to 5DII was a larger quality jump than any lens upgrade I've ever made. It's true that with proper light you'll never be able to tell the difference between crop and FF, but I often shoot in less than ideal conditions, and while the 5DII still isn't a "perfect" camera for me, my keeper rate went up substantially going from crop to FF.

This was also at a point where I had the 7D plus L lenses so the lenses were not the limiting factor. I had gone by the old adage of upgrading glass first, although honestly if I had to do it again, I don't think I'd do it that way. That was true in the film days, when glass was often the limiting factor, since you could also easily "upgrade" your film with a different stock. These days, your camera IS the film - and it's not like you can drop in an upgraded DPAF sensor into your old 20D. And with sensor improvements dramatically outpacing lens improvements I would say make sure you have a body that works for you and then find the best glass you can for it.


LovePhotography

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Re: Help deciding on going full frame
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2014, 10:32:55 AM »
Thanks for your replies so far.  To answer one question - yes I shoot in raw and process in Lightroom.  My ideal solution would be a 24-105 mkii with equivalent sharpness to the other recent releases from Canon, but it doesn't seem likely this is going to be released.  Purchasing the 6D with 24-105 plus the 16-35 f4 will cost in the vicinity of $4000 aus, which I am prepared to pay to get the quality if the 24-105 on FF will deliver significantly sharper images than the 18-135 STM on crop.  However if this isn't the case then I can probably do a 7d mkii body and keep the rest of my kit for around $1500 aus (guessing at the price here). 
I accept the 24-104 won't be in quite the same league as the other 2 L zooms, but will it be significantly better than what I have now?

I have a 6D and Sigma 24-105 f/4 Art lens. Considering it's a zoom, it's almost as good as a prime at any focal length you choose. I little post processing for barrel, pin cushion, vignette, and- BAM! You've got a real keeper. Sharpness is excellent, and there's no way to correct an unsharp photo.

mackguyver

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Re: Help deciding on going full frame
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2014, 10:59:46 AM »
Decided to bite the bullet and have ordered the 6D, 24-105 and 16-35 f4. I should have delivery in a couple of days and am looking forward to playing with my new toys.
Congrats and I think you'll love your new gear.  I haven't used the well-regarded 6D or 24-105 lenses, but I can tell you that the new 16-35 is a fantastic lens and will really show you the benefits of a FF sensor.

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Re: Help deciding on going full frame
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2014, 10:59:46 AM »

AcutancePhotography

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Re: Help deciding on going full frame
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2014, 11:35:19 AM »
(also the wife doesn't really like hanging around whilst I swap gear adjust settings etc - sounds of "can't you just take the picture and lets get going").

Instead of replacing the lenses/camera, how about replacing the wife?

(my wife is standing behind me)

SMACK!!

Only kidding honey, only kidding!  Kinda....

SMACK!!!

You should put the camera away and spend quality time with your wife   ;D

Phew.
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sunnyVan

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Re: Help deciding on going full frame
« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2014, 12:19:58 PM »
Hi All,

This is my first post, although I have spent quite a bit of time looking at older threads and gained some very useful information.  I am currently considering going full frame and would like some input from those that have gone before me.  I currently own the following equipment:
Canon 550D
Canon EFS 18-55
Canon EFS 55-250
Canon EFS 10-22
Canon EFS 18-135 STM
Canon EF 50 1.8
Canon EF 85 1.8
Canon EF 70-300 L (on order awaiting delivery)
Canon 430EX flash
Manfrotto Tripod
Sounds like a lot when I write it all down.  So a bit of background.  I started with the 2 kit lenses (18-55 and 55-250) and quickly found that when I was out walking around on holidays taking pics I didn't want to be carrying multiple lenses and swapping them out all the time (also the wife doesn't really like hanging around whilst I swap gear adjust settings etc - sounds of "can't you just take the picture and lets get going").  So I got the 18-135 which suits me just fine in terms of a walkabout lens.  This lens is on my camera most of the time for holiday type pics (50%) and the other 50% of the time if I go out to spend some time doing creative photography (without the wife in tow) I will take additional lenses and will use them as needed.
With the current setup I have been a bit disappointed with the sharpness of the 18-135, think the 10-22 is a good lens, don't use the 18-55 and 55-250 really, and use the 50 and 85 when I want to do shallow DOF or low light stuff (not often). 
I also tend to take a fair bit of low light stuff with my 18-135 when doing holiday pics - an hour either side of sunset - usually when doing these pics I am not wanting to carry multiple lenses.
So my current issues are:
1)  I want a general improvement in the sharpness of my pics as I tend to like having them printed reasonably large and I think the current EFS lenses just won't give me the image quality I would like.
2)  Shooting around dusk with my 18-135 walkabout (even in dark shade sometimes), I am either getting blurred photos due to having to drop the shutter speed to low (even with IS) or bumping the ISO too high and getting unacceptable levels of noise.
I have been purchasing my recent lenses with a view to eventually going full frame (can't wait to play with the 70-300 - my first L lens)
My thoughts have been to upgrade to a 6D with a 24-105 as a walkabout, use the 70-300L as my long lens, a 16-35 F4 as my wide angle and keep the 50 1.8 and 85 1.8 for portraits and shallow DOF as well as low light.  The 6D will solve my issues with noise and ISO whilst the L series lenses will solve my sharpness problems.  I have read about the 6D AF issues, and don't think that will be an issue for me as most of my shots are static and for the odd shot of action I can use the centre point and crop later.

The area I want some feedback on is the 24-105.  From all that I have read the newer 24-70 is lots better, but I won't go with that lens as that would give me a similar range on FF to the original 18-55 on crop that I found too limiting initially.  I know that the 24-105 will be shorter than the 18-135 (equivalent approx. 216 mm), but I think I could live with 105, but definitely not 70 on the long end.  I have read plenty of reviews and opinions on the 24-105 to believe that as an L lens it is pretty average and has a lot of distortion at around 24mm. 

So my questions are:
1)  Will the 24-105 provide a significant IQ improvement when used on FF compared to using the 18-135 STM on a crop.  I am not interested in using the 24-105 on a crop camera, so many of the comments I have read which compare using both on a crop camera are not applicable to my scenario as in that case they would only be using the centre of the 24-105 not the full view.
2)  Should I stick with the 18-135 STM and wait for the 7D mkii which I expect will also have significantly improved noise / ISO and will solve that problem for me, but will then still leave me with the image quality issues from the EFS lens, as I don't see any better quality walkabout lens that will suit me if using a crop sensor.  (The 24-105 would not be wide enough for me on a crop).

So what do you think - 6D, 24-105, 16-35 F4, 70-300L or 7D mkii, EFS 10-22, EFS 18-135 STM, 70-300L.

I can't see any other scenarios that would give me the walkabout options that I want and also achieve the IQ I want.

Sorry for the long post - I thought too much info is better than not enough.  I look forward to hearing your thoughts especially if you have been down the same path as I am going.

Rob

I don't see any disadvantage in getting a 6d and 24-105 kit. You can always sell the lens easily. It's better that you compare the IQ yourself rather than relying on other user's opinion. My guess would be that you'll like the 24-105. Build quality alone is a huge difference from your EFs lenses. IQ is average or above average depending on who you ask. You need to see for yourself whether the IQ meets your needs. It may be good enough for you.

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9VIII

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Re: Help deciding on going full frame
« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2014, 01:29:51 PM »
With full frame costing less than $1,500 now (used or on sale), I can't think of any reason to stay on crop unless your budget is under $1,000.
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Tanispyre

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Re: Help deciding on going full frame
« Reply #25 on: August 26, 2014, 01:53:52 PM »
The biggest complaint I have heard about the Canon 24-105 is the high distortion. Have you considered buying a body only, and a third party lens.  The 24-70 F2.8 VC lens from Tamron is amazingly sharp and has image stabilization.  Or the Sigma 24-105 which has the same resolution as the Canon version, but lower distortion.

Mr_Canuck

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Re: Help deciding on going full frame
« Reply #26 on: August 26, 2014, 02:26:25 PM »
It sounds like you want the convenience of an all-in-one zoom but the quality of primes or tighter zooms. Unfortunately for all of us, you can't have both.

I'm with the camp who suggest you don't overlap your focal lengths so much (ie. 16-35/24-105) and go with the 16-35, 50, 70-300. You said you didn't want to be swapping lenses all the time. But I guess if you don't mind carrying all that around, it's still the most flexible. You'll enjoy the 6D I'm sure. You've traded convenience for quality.
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Peerke

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Re: Help deciding on going full frame
« Reply #27 on: August 26, 2014, 02:35:56 PM »
Perhaps your camera/lens combination is not giving you the sharpness you think you should have because of bad calibration? This is what a 40D with a EFS 18-135 can produce:



Not bad at all I guess, specially for an amature who won't print big.
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Re: Help deciding on going full frame
« Reply #27 on: August 26, 2014, 02:35:56 PM »

LovePhotography

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Re: Help deciding on going full frame
« Reply #28 on: August 26, 2014, 03:03:09 PM »
Perhaps your camera/lens combination is not giving you the sharpness you think you should have because of bad calibration? This is what a 40D with a EFS 18-135 can produce:



Not bad at all I guess, specially for an amature who won't print big.

That's a crazy cool level of sharpness.

KacperP

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Re: Help deciding on going full frame
« Reply #29 on: August 26, 2014, 03:04:06 PM »
My idea for going FF is "only if I'll start earning money with it". Money, not pennies. ;)
Currently I have 60D.
I had EF-S 17-85, replaced with 15-85 as walkaround and gained significant IQ (especially with DLO in DPP)
Also had EF 28/1.8, but Sigma happened.
Two months with Sigma 18-35/1.8 now, and I can live peacefully without FF. ;)

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Re: Help deciding on going full frame
« Reply #29 on: August 26, 2014, 03:04:06 PM »