September 22, 2014, 06:36:21 AM

Author Topic: Are These The EOS 7D Mark II Specifications?  (Read 65496 times)

jrista

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Re: Are These The EOS 7D Mark II Specifications?
« Reply #315 on: August 23, 2014, 01:48:34 PM »
... I just don't understand posters here being against it.

Ahh, ok.  I don't get that, either.

They are against it because they know it wouldn't cost Canon anything, they want the feature, most people are cheap, therefor..."Why the hell didn't Canon include WiFi?!?" That isn't hard to understand. Especially when the feature counts on competitors products keep increasing, at a faster rate than on Canon cameras. Especially when, outside of the AF system, the 7D II is looking like a relatively small upgrade from the 70D & 7D...which is rather pitiful after such a LOOOONG wait for it.

It really isn't that hard to understand. :P It's a basic facet of the human psyche...we want what we aren't getting, and we want it even more when the other guy has it.
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Re: Are These The EOS 7D Mark II Specifications?
« Reply #315 on: August 23, 2014, 01:48:34 PM »

Steve

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Re: Are These The EOS 7D Mark II Specifications?
« Reply #316 on: August 23, 2014, 01:54:34 PM »
You misunderstand, we are saying the opposite.  I was arguing with people who are against including Wifi in cameras for some reason. 

jrista

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Re: Are These The EOS 7D Mark II Specifications?
« Reply #317 on: August 23, 2014, 01:56:29 PM »
You misunderstand, we are saying the opposite.  I was arguing with people who are against including Wifi in cameras for some reason.

Oh. Well in that case, I agree...that's strange. :P
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sagittariansrock

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Re: Are These The EOS 7D Mark II Specifications?
« Reply #318 on: August 23, 2014, 01:58:29 PM »
Other than the wifi, the features look great.
Particularly like the built-in RT function... damn, I want it...
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Re: Are These The EOS 7D Mark II Specifications?
« Reply #319 on: August 23, 2014, 02:00:07 PM »
The Wi-Fi on the 6D has been one of the most used features since Ive had it. I never used the camera remote any longer I use the iPhone app. via WI-FI to trigger the shutter release then NOTHING is touching the camera for landscape its perfect.
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jrista

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Re: Are These The EOS 7D Mark II Specifications?
« Reply #320 on: August 23, 2014, 02:05:00 PM »
In a follow up thread, CR stated they think the iTR metering and tacking system of the 1D X will be included in the 7D II. That, combined with a 65pt AF system and 10fps, and I think this really is a mini 1DX.

I'm still bummed that Canon has STILL not demonstrated they are getting competitive again on the sensor front...re-purposing the 70D sensor in the 7D II just smells really sloppy and cheap....the 7D II was the PERFECT camera to release a new sensor in, and I think this is the worst move, from a perceptual standpoint, given the competition out in the market, that they could have made. I don't think the 7D II is going to be a big "low ISO usage" camera, given it's specs...but I do think Canon should have demonstrated that they are still capable of competing on the sensor IQ front.

Maybe with the 5D IV, or if Canon introduces another line of cameras to replace the 1Ds line when they release a "big megapixel" camera...maybe then they will finally release a sensor fabricated on 180nm, with on-die ADC, better low ISO DR, maybe even multi-layered, etc. Still...it'll suck, if the 7D II really doesn't hit with a better sensor, to have to wait ANOTHER couple years to see if Canon is going to do something on the sensor front. :(
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fragilesi

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Re: Are These The EOS 7D Mark II Specifications?
« Reply #321 on: August 23, 2014, 02:05:53 PM »
Other than the wifi, the features look great.
Particularly like the built-in RT function... damn, I want it...

I agree! For many a better focusing system would be a huge upgrade in of itself.  We're already possibly talking about something that takes the best of the 7d and 70d and puts them into one package plus that focusing system.  My guess is that for many of the actual target market that focusing improvement is actually worth much more than all the wifis, GPSs, touch screens, step of DR etc combined.  Obviously . . . that's based on the assumption that it is a fairly large improvement!

And I'm not saying that the other stuff is trivial as camera functions go but give me the basics any time in any product over the bells and whistles!

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Re: Are These The EOS 7D Mark II Specifications?
« Reply #321 on: August 23, 2014, 02:05:53 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Are These The EOS 7D Mark II Specifications?
« Reply #322 on: August 23, 2014, 02:11:20 PM »
Particularly like the built-in RT function... damn, I want it...

The more recent rumor update suggested that the -RT master would not be a feature, it'll be optical master only.
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Chuck Alaimo

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Re: Are These The EOS 7D Mark II Specifications?
« Reply #323 on: August 23, 2014, 02:11:33 PM »
I think Canon understands it's target market far better than most of the people here...

+1

The 7DII/X looks to be a mini-1D X in many respects.  It'll have the best AF of any APS-C camera on the market.  65-pts will push AF point coverage almost to the sides of the frame.  10 fps.  Dual cards.  The iTR suggests a new RGB metering sensor.

The minuscule number of forum DRones will whine and complain, and say they won't buy it (not that they intended to anyway, in most cases).  Meanwhile, the camera will be very popular with buyers.

+1+1

Whenever Canon (or Nikon) comes out with a new camera, I enjoy trying to reverse-engineer their market research.

It was clear from the 5DIII that they had done excellent research on what wedding and event photographers wanted and hit the bulls eye (while still offering a camera that would be great all-around for other serious users).

I wondered what their market research showed about the 7D. I figured that it would be targeted at sports, birders and wildlife shooters. But I really thought they would up the pixel count significantly and sacrifice higher ISOs, in part to protect the full frame line.

What's interesting to me with these rumors (and I am fully aware that they are rumors) is that Canon appears to have decided to try to reach a balance between resolution and ISO performance, possibly deciding that a 24 mp sensor was just too noisy at modestly high ISOs (Which, by the way, is also very evident in reviews of Nikon and Sony 24mp APS-C sensors, despite what some people on this forum think.)

People love to talk about Canon "crippling" one camera to protect another more expensive model. That's almost always B.S. and it appears it might be the case here as well. By holding the resolution down to 20 mp, they may be trying to keep the noise level manageable at higher, but reasonable ISOs, like 1600, 3200 and even 6400. Even though there may be some risk that potential 6D or even 5D buyers would go for the 7DII.

These specs show a company that knows what their target audience wants and I suspect it will sell very well when it's released.  At a minimum, it will certainly outsell the Nikon D400. :)

+100

the grass is always greener.

" By holding the resolution down to 20 mp, they may be trying to keep the noise level manageable at higher, but reasonable ISOs, like 1600, 3200 and even 6400. Even though there may be some risk that potential 6D or even 5D buyers would go for the 7DII." 

I think this depends on the actual cost of the 7d2, and yeah other factors too.  when I stepped up from my xsi to a 7d, I was taking a good look at the 5d2 as well but ended up going with the 7d because it had a lesser cost (and because I was playign the field in terms of what I was shooting, kind of all over the place so the 7d was a good fit at the time). 

If the 7d comes in at under 2k, then canon may have to refresh that 6d (give it more cross points) because that is the body that will be in danger from a 7d2 under 2K.  If it's 2k+ though, then it actually makes the upgrade path more clear.  With the 6d at $1600, those who want to step up for things like portraits and weddings have a very valid budget option in the 6d.  If you know you are shooting sports and wildlife, now you have your 7d2.  And if your further along, then you have your 5 series.  I really doubt those that not only want but need what the 5 series brings to the table will buy a 7d2 though, even if it is under 2k. 





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Chuck Alaimo

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Re: Are These The EOS 7D Mark II Specifications?
« Reply #324 on: August 23, 2014, 02:20:26 PM »
If these specs are close, it is a bit disappointing.  If they were going to stay right around 20MB, I would want higher ISO.  If they are keeping this size, there needs to be a significant improvement in DR.

The 65 AF could be nice.  Will be interesting to see the spread and how well it functions.  Was really hoping for 24MP+ and closer to 30.

I think we've hit the point though where monumental gains in high ISO quality on a crop sensor just aren't happening, were looking at drawing blood from a stone here - as many would point out it's just the laws of physics here and larger FF sensors will be easier to get more ISO out than 1.6 crop. 

The 7 series is kind of the big compromise body - think about it.  You could have the 1dx and a 600mm lens (no compromising - but pricey as all hell!!!!), but most don't have the $$$ to plunk down for that.  So in comes the 7 series - high fps, and the 1.6 crop gives that extra reach - a 7 series body plus a 300mm + a 1.4 converter will get ya just overt he 600mm FOV, for far less than the cost of just the 600mm lens.  Many here seem to want the quality of a $20,000 setup for less than $5000, and sorry, that just ain't happening!!!!
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Chuck Alaimo

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Re: Are These The EOS 7D Mark II Specifications?
« Reply #325 on: August 23, 2014, 02:27:28 PM »
Don't you understand how many cameras you could sell?

I'm sure they understand that quite well.  I'm not sure why so many people seem to think they know more than Canon...

Neuro: respect your Canon input a great deal.

As a loyal Canon customer, I know that they must have great data on the video market.

My frustration lies with them holding back on video features that competitors are releasing in similarly priced camera bodies.

There are two parts to my frustration-

1) I want a Canon camera with 4K, not a Sony or Panasonic, because Canon makes better stuff.

2) They could sell a TON of 7DII cameras on volume if they added those features and make up any loss of $$ on their Cinema EOS line from that.

So, my hunch is that the only reasons they refuse to do it is for the reason we've suspected all along- to protect and save face with their pro video line- not a good enough reason to prevent release of a great product that would fly off shelves in my opinion (such as a 7DII with 4K or RAW).

Pro video people are going to be buying GH4s and A7Ss or perhaps Blackmagics as backup cameras when they could be buying 7DIIs.

In other words, Canon's not capitalizing on their market lead in DSLR video and not following the Apple rule: cannibalize yourself before someone else does it to you.

Are there really that many indie movie makers that are shooting in 4K nowadays or is this just all baloney? Who here has a 4K monitor or software that can edit 4K video? I have yet to actually watch something in 4K. So why is it all of a sudden we need this in a camera that is primarily designed to shoot sports and wildlife pictures?

We all know that ML will squeeze 4K out of it anyway, so chill out with the 4K already.

An explanation: for film / video makers, having 4K is more about future proofing when 4K hits big and increased resolution in 1080p, not about playback for normal videos. It's like taking a small JPEG and using it for quick web distribution but wanting to have the .CR2 file for later use in case you want to blow it up for print.

That said, I'd be happy with a RAW 1080p feature in place of 4K because it would offer increased dynamic range.

But I don't want a Magic Lantern solution- I want a stable, well thought out Canon solution for 4K and / or RAW because it's more reliable and because I own enough Canon glass and bodies that I **care** about the company's future :) ;)

Or, maybe canon did target the 7 series towards sports and wildlife shooters.  If the 7 series is targeted in such a manner, what would they have to take away from these proposed specs to give it 4k video?  Or, how ginormous would the price tag be if it did?  Would it need a third digic 6 in there to handle video output?  Would they have had to back off on the AF for it?  Or, if you look at the A7s, then would we see a 7d2 with a 12MP sensor?

Again, these specs seem quite reasonable, add 4k in there and what happens to the price? Are people willing to pay 5d3 prices for a crop camera with 4k video.

And the bigger question is - why the heck would they do all that for a sports/wildlife stills camera???? 
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dgatwood

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Re: Are These The EOS 7D Mark II Specifications?
« Reply #326 on: August 23, 2014, 02:30:13 PM »
They are against it because they know it wouldn't cost Canon anything, they want the feature, most people are cheap, therefor..."Why the hell didn't Canon include WiFi?!?"

It's really not a case of being cheap.  Folks want GPS and Wi-Fi in the body for the same reason they want RF speedlite control in the body—for the people who use those features, in-body hardware means one less extra piece of hardware to have to carry around, one less set of batteries to go dead in the middle of the shoot, one less piece of equipment to independently malfunction....

With that said, it's a shame that Canon doesn't make their "N" version (no-radio) available more broadly, for the folks who don't want to pay a small marginal cost for hardware that they don't think they'll use.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2014, 02:32:48 PM by dgatwood »

dilbert

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Re: Are These The EOS 7D Mark II Specifications?
« Reply #327 on: August 23, 2014, 03:06:00 PM »
...
The differences are subtle to non-existent at ISO 400 and up. However, I have processed Exmor images (some of them from people on these very forums who were willing to share theirs), and there is no question that you do have considerably more editing latitude with an Exmor. A D800 allows more shadow lifting. Now, I can deband a 5D III image, and the differences drop...however, the D800 images still contain more detail and usually still have less noise in the shadows. Here is an example of a 5D III vs. a D800 from Fred Miranda's examples back when he first reviewed the 5D III and D800 (he was the first guy to clearly demonstrate with actual images the difference, and this was the first time I believed the D800's editing latitude advantage):
...
The D800 obviously maintains the detail lead, and it still has less noise, but the 5D III image doesn't look like crap anymore. I could probably reduce shadow noise even further, however if I did I would start eating away at even more detail, and at this level, it isn't "chew your hand off at the wrist" annoyingly bad. It's actually quite decent in the grand scheme of things...a considerable amount of DR has been recovered (maybe a stop or so, definitely not the full 2.2 stop difference between the two cameras.)

This has been obvious to some folks (like myself) since the early days of the D800 - when people started posting images with a large natural dynamic range and posting 100% crops of those shadows vs the same scene with the 5D3. It's why folks like myself are furiously upset with the 5D3's sensor being no better in this respect than the 5D2's.

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Re: Are These The EOS 7D Mark II Specifications?
« Reply #327 on: August 23, 2014, 03:06:00 PM »

dilbert

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Re: Are These The EOS 7D Mark II Specifications?
« Reply #328 on: August 23, 2014, 03:12:27 PM »
20.2MP “Fine Detail” CMOS  Sensor (I want more information on this)

= No OLPF or anti-aliasing filter in front of the sensor.

= Nope.  The 70D and 5DIII are both described by Canon as having a 'fine detail CMOS sensor', both have an AA filter.

did not know canon calls their sensors "fine detail CMOS sensors".

so it seems this part of the rumor does not indicate anything new.

in other words, "fine detail CMOS sensor" is just marketing speak for ... nothing. It's like saying that a ripe lemon is yellow.

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Re: Are These The EOS 7D Mark II Specifications?
« Reply #329 on: August 23, 2014, 03:39:37 PM »
We won't know anything until it gets here... here's my point
From CanonWatch.com today.....



"Another email from a good source. The rumor contradicts parts of the latest supposed spec list that surfaced a few days ago.

That’s what I have been told:

the EOS 7D replacement will feature a 24MP sensor (no mention if it is a new sensor tech, or not)
a new generation of Dual Pixel CMOS AF is implemented thru the sensor and via the increased CPU power of the EOS 7D replacement
the auto-focus system of the EOS 5D Mark III will be on board
GPS and WiFi will be on board
still not sure if it will be named “EOS 7D Mark II”
Thanks to the source, please send in more information if you can!"
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Re: Are These The EOS 7D Mark II Specifications?
« Reply #329 on: August 23, 2014, 03:39:37 PM »