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Author Topic: 5D Mark III Information [CR1]  (Read 52898 times)

torger

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Re: 5D Mark III Information [CR1]
« Reply #30 on: November 30, 2011, 03:37:46 AM »
Seems unlikely to me that a 5Dmk3 would be that similar to 1DX. A 7D2 that is similar to 1DX in performance but with an APS-C sensor and a high res 5Dmk3 makes much more sense to me. But we'll see...

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Re: 5D Mark III Information [CR1]
« Reply #30 on: November 30, 2011, 03:37:46 AM »

alipaulphotography

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Re: 5D Mark III Information [CR1]
« Reply #31 on: November 30, 2011, 03:41:58 AM »
No more than 18mp - That is great news for me. No need to pay for something I don't need! Just don't know how they will differentiate it from the 1DX....

RobS

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Re: 5D Mark III Information [CR1]
« Reply #32 on: November 30, 2011, 04:06:41 AM »
sorry about my bad english
i care some about megapixels. i am a stock photographer, there are some agencies they have a price gap near 18mp. lower than 18mp i earn less than equal or over ... so if the camera has only 18MP a can not crop pictures beacause i will loose money i have a lot oft those sales above this price gap in a day... so in the moment i would loose about 50 dollars every day if i would use a 18mp camera. The other option would be a hasselblad or a phase one but those monsters are too expensive. if nikon brings a fulll frame 36mp camera with sufficient picture quality and canon only a 18mp camera i will definitvely change to nikon.

Gothmoth

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Re: 5D Mark III Information [CR1]
« Reply #33 on: November 30, 2011, 04:14:35 AM »
that will be interesting times in the future.

given the rumors are true and nikon is releasing a 36MP D800 im curious what new DSLR customers will buy. for years canon was raising MP and nikon was saying less MP are better.

now it seems the positions have suddenly changed.

many nikon buyer already complain about a (not released) D800 and how much noise it will have and canon buyer complain about a (not released) 5D MK3 and how it lacks resolution details compared to the MK2 or a (not released) D800. :)

most amateurs who have no clue still think more MP will make a better image.
even after years this is still stuck in their heads.
especially canon buyer have this idea planted into their brains.
and how can you blame them.. that is what canon more or less told them all the years.

i think there is a sweet spot for overall image quality with the current CMOS technology.. and so thinks canon as it looks.

18 MP are fine for me when ISO, dynamic range and noise are improved.

also canon said the (real world not theoretical) MTF resolution of the new sensor is better then the 21 MP sensor. we will see if that is true and if it is true for low iso or only high iso.

Quote
"Canon's new EOS-1 DX DSLR will produce the same resolution as the 21-million-pixel EOS-1 Ds Mark III despite having three million fewer pixels according to the company's senior general manager of photo products, Tsunemasa Ohara."

'We have designed the Canon CMOS sensor for the EOS 1DX so that it is much thinner than before and so that the photodiodes are closer to the surface of the sensor. This way the pixels collect more light and produce a better, clearer, signal.
 
'With less noise, and our new improved processing algorithms, the camera is able to reproduce more detail. While using MFT is perhaps not the best way to measure the resolution of the camera, if you did use this method the results for the EOS-1 DX and EOS-1 Ds Mark III would be very similar.'

« Last Edit: November 30, 2011, 04:41:49 AM by Gothmoth »

GeorgeMaciver

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Re: 5D Mark III Information [CR1]
« Reply #34 on: November 30, 2011, 04:28:48 AM »
All sounds very exciting!

pedro

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Re: 5D Mark III Information [CR1]
« Reply #35 on: November 30, 2011, 04:47:13 AM »
Hoping for more information to be leaked soon. That means: before Christmas.  8) Sounds great. An 1Dx sensor-ish 5D, wow.
30D, EF-S 10-22/ 5DIII, 16-35 F/2.8 L USM II, 28 F/2.8, 50 F/1.4, 85 F/1.8, 70-200 F/2.8 classic,
join me at http://www.flickr.com/groups/insane_isos/

pakosouthpark

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Re: 5D Mark III Information [CR1]
« Reply #36 on: November 30, 2011, 04:52:02 AM »
"5D Mark III will be aimed at “cleaning up” the DSLR video market" that sounds promising! and at 18mp is more than enough! apart for some print guys.. i hope january brings us some good news!

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Re: 5D Mark III Information [CR1]
« Reply #36 on: November 30, 2011, 04:52:02 AM »

Canon-F1

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Re: 5D Mark III Information [CR1]
« Reply #37 on: November 30, 2011, 04:56:38 AM »
Picture this (no pun): you shot your model from the waste up but you want just a head shot for what ever reason. But you're effed because your camera is no longer a 21 but an 18. That would suck.

have you ever taken photographs or are you just talking about gear?

how much (in theory) difference in resolution are 18 vs. 21 MP?
do the math you may be suprised! and now keep in mind that this says nothing about the real difference, who is influenced by more then just math.

i mean what i read here is often so much nonsense.... i can´t believe you guys actually go out and take pictures.    ;D
and if you make picture are you just pixelpeeping on a 30" monitor or are you printing the images?

it´s more like these PC overclocking websites where people tune PC´s but never ever actually DO something with them.

i read from "landscape photographer" who talk about cropping and how it will affect them to crop a 18 MP image vs. a 21 MP image.
well i rather crop a 12.8MP canon 5D image then a 16 MP image from a point and shoot camera.

what counts is real world resolution .. not MP.
you can have a 20MP sensor that has less resolving resolution then a 12MP sensor.
and cropping that worse 20MP image or downsampling will not help you gain resolution.

image quality is determined by much more then just a single and simple MP number.
and even resolution is affected by more then the number of MP.


 
« Last Edit: November 30, 2011, 05:18:54 AM by Canon-F1 »

Fandongo

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Re: 5D Mark III Information [CR1]
« Reply #38 on: November 30, 2011, 05:36:43 AM »
This might be exactly what I want/need:
- a full frame SLR form factor camera that does very high quality video (with excellent low light capability) without moire/aliasing with quality comparable to series of 1920x1080 still images. Video compression is ok if the bit rate is in the realm >=50 Mbit/s. If the moire is absent, the encoder will be more efficient and the false details do not need to get encoded and the overall quality will be much higher even if the bit rate did not increase at all over 5D2.
- and does also stills with excellent dynamic range and excellent low light capability (I am still looking for a camera that can take good pictures of my black cat)
- one that accepts my L-lens collection and possibly/preferably is compatible with electronic follow focus
- camera price in the realm of 5D2 or maximum ~1000 more (5000 would be already too much to justify purchase - as priorities are lenses first and body second)
- body preferably smaller than 1DX
- autofocus is not highly important, as in many cases I manual focus. Would be nice though. But I will take video without aliasing rather than any autofocus any day.
- extreme still speed is not highly important (would be nice though, but not absolutely mandatory), as I am not expecting a sports camera as I am not a sports photographer
- audio / XLRs etc. are not important, I am recording audio separately anyway with dedicated audio recorder and mics and I don't plan going back to internally recorded audio as my audio recorder lives its own upgrade path now.
- I have rigs, steadicams etc. and I don't need any video handles in the camera. As clean and simple as possible is better. That would be also easier to balance to the steadicam.

The Cinema* models from Canon would have been far beyond my budget (as nobody pays me at the moment anything for the video content I create because my job/income is in a different industry), but if this 5D3 is really finally coming, then this probably is my next camera. After that my 5D2 becomes the B-cam or mainly still cam (as my eyes are now so trained to see moire that I nowadays see it everywhere, even where others can't see it, e.g. even in scenes that do not contain any straight horizontal lines and it bugs me like a broken tweeter (which distorts) in a loudspeaker).

So this is the most promising rumor to the date about future Canon models. The previous announcements have been disappointing. The crowd is waiting for a 5D mark III and not a hyper expensive Cinema camera that costs more than RED. A big part of the video DSLR revolution was the price-value ratio of the camera and also the versatility to use the same camera for stills and video. If either of these are absent, it is no longer revolutionary and just a yet another (potentially inferior unless only reliability is the criteria) competitor (with questionable price-value ratio) for cameras like RED Scarlet and Arri Alexa. Canon should put out the 5D mark III fast because this is what I and I believe so many others have been so long waiting for for very good reasons. I hope the 5D3 will live up to its expectations and also I hope that Canon comes up with it fast. 5D3 is needed soonish (January/February 2012 at the latest) and not a year from now.




Uhh, I'll second all of that!

Bit rates - agreed! The gh2 pulls off incredibly fine detail with negligible artifacts at a lowly 24mb/s

For those obsessed with moire...
http://www.mosaicengineering.com/products/vaf-5d2.html

If the digic 5 is as awesome as it should be, the term artifact will become an artifact.

My question is:  In which ways will they flex gimping to keep the 5d3 from cannibalizing c300 sales??
My guess - HDMI out, fully selectable frame rates (clearly).
I know it's even more "niche" but how easy and incredible would it be:

Pmovie mode w/optional:
  - auto 180 degree shutter (change shutter - visible frame rate indicator adjusts)
  - auto WB that doesn't change after hitting record.
  - auto iso - adjusts at variable rate depending on how dramatic the shift, staying constant whenever possible.
  - follow focus preset marks
     - you could even set approximate marks, while in record a half shutter press begins the rack...it stops once the object in that approximate location gets focus confirmed.

The follow focus is more a pipe dream.
Canon will never be influenced by Hollywood to perfect a feature so incredibly intuitive that it would put every focus puller on the street.
At the very least i hope there is an lcd sensor so i can rack focus w/o touching the camera w/ a new even more Magical Lantern  =)
And yeah, I'd be surprised if a firmware update couldn't fix the usb follow focus buzz kill.

The iso would be the hardest to perfect and least used, due to intermediate issues.

Features are so easy to add (Canon's greatest mistake was revealing that fact).
But even easier to withhold until the competition (or lack there of) forces you to do so.
Allowing you more reincarnations of the exact same camera.

5d2 (7d2 + t2i + t3i + 60d)

Consumers eat up 3 year old technology with a new face if they don't know better.

Dual audio will always be the choice of audiophiles.
Software has made any difficulty arguments against it moot as hell.
In fact, it has removed any need for "pro" features like timecode.
But shhh...

They aren't supposed to know.
"There is no good and evil. There is only power, and those too weak to seek it."

Canon-F1

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Re: 5D Mark III Information [CR1]
« Reply #39 on: November 30, 2011, 05:47:38 AM »
[The follow focus is more a pipe dream.
Canon will never be influenced by Hollywood to perfect a feature so incredibly intuitive that it would put every focus puller on the street.

why not?
if it reduces cost for the studios... they will want and use it.

we saw other professions disappear.

catz

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Re: 5D Mark III Information [CR1]
« Reply #40 on: November 30, 2011, 05:54:08 AM »
My guess for 5D Mark III:

How did you guess these because these do not make much sense.

Quote
1. Single DIGIC 5+ supporting up to max 6 raw pictures in sec. (+1 for JPG)
2. Very usable ISO 6400 for stills, max ISO for video 12800, camera max ex. ISO 51200

How would you have a camera with different ISO for stills and video while 5D mark II can do 25600 ISO for video. Where did you come up that with better sensor + bigger pixels + better DIGIC it is going to be worse than 5D mark II? This does not make slightest sense. I have been shooting some night scenes at 25600 despite it admittedly sucks especially now that I have couple of hot pixels which become visible at high ISO video.

I am expecting ISO 102400 at least and it would be usable for both stills and video. 18 mpix sensor + full frame + more sensitive sensor than previous generation + better processing in DIGIC V your prediction sounds low.

I am expecting ISO 25600 to be still usable (comparable to 5D2 ISO 6400) based on assumptions on improvements on sensor technology, pixel size and DIGIC.

Quote
3. AF for video

Unlikely, if it follows the lead of the 1Dx. And for the HDSLR people this is much less priority item than a aliasing free image that really is 1920x1080 pixel by pixel sharp.

Quote
4. Audio control - same as 1Dx

This has been already in 5D2. Having that in 5D3 would be no news. Of course the new audio meters of 1Dx are nice.

Quote
5. Articulated LCD screen (trust me, this is very usable in real life situations)
6. Double CF slot (same as 1Dx)
7. Weather sealed body (slightly different than 1Dx)
8. Improved AF in 19 points for stills (better than 7D)
9. Price range - from 2.990,00$ - 3.490,00$ body only.

With these I could agree. However, how did you came up with these? Wish list/speculation?
I am looking forward to seeing more than CR0 level information about spec list.


catz

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Re: 5D Mark III Information [CR1]
« Reply #41 on: November 30, 2011, 06:08:30 AM »
Quote
Pmovie mode w/optional:
  - auto 180 degree shutter (change shutter - visible frame rate indicator adjusts)
  - auto WB that doesn't change after hitting record.
  - auto iso - adjusts at variable rate depending on how dramatic the shift, staying constant whenever possible.
  - follow focus preset marks
     - you could even set approximate marks, while in record a half shutter press begins the rack...it stops once the object in that approximate location gets focus confirmed.

The follow focus is more a pipe dream.


Well if I was working for Canon as a product owner (assuming they are not living still at stone age with waterfall process, project and program management and all the unnecessary work which does not help the consumer to get the products on time the consumers want), I would surely try to include these features. Lockable follow focus to an object is in software perspective feasible. It would not be very easy feature to implement, but it would be something that would make the camera to do something revolutionary instead of evolutionary. There are plenty of other things that could be done for the picture as well, which currently nobody is doing. However, the case is that I am not working for Canon.

Sounds like features like this would be more likely to come from one Cupertino company if they would ever venture to SLR cameras.

Quote
They aren't supposed to know.

Sometimes I wonder the product decisions made by companies. Sometimes they seem to do so dumb decisions that it is incredible how they can survive such fiascos. Instead of answering to a market need or creating a new market breakthrough, they companies tend to do evolutionary products without inventing anything new innovative. And then they sell that crap to customers because customers are expected to be sheeple and not care about what they buy. Maybe at the Internet age a change might eventually happen that selling crap over and over again will not work anymore and consumers, prosumers and professionals are more aware on what they want and what they will buy. Here would be a incredible chance for some small startup to come up with a total Canon/Nikon killer that would run circles with their products at a price that would completely kill the market for the traditional camera companies. Technically it could be done but it would require some serious venture capital and investors who have some vision rather than just looking the next quarter.


Jettatore

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Re: 5D Mark III Information [CR1]
« Reply #42 on: November 30, 2011, 07:04:51 AM »
I'm fine with 18mp and better ISO across the entire range.  Peak ISO performance is at the top of my wishlist.  Would like to see ISO 50 included.  I'd say that a close second would be improved video performance (fixed rolling shutter and similar head-ache inducing capture issues).  Too bad the 18mp and ISO is still just a rumor.  18mp works fine for me, I don't shoot or print any style of photo atm that would benefit from Poster Sized and larger images and expect them to be viewed as you would the distance one views a wallet photo.  There's also enough editing play room inside of 18mp for me to aggressively re-crop and print high-quality images at any size under optimal viewing distances.  And if the info about the resolution of current lenses in this thread is true, even more reason to hope they do this and not go chasing a white rabbit just so they can print larger numbers in ads and specs.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2011, 07:06:41 AM by Jettatore »

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Re: 5D Mark III Information [CR1]
« Reply #42 on: November 30, 2011, 07:04:51 AM »

torger

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Re: 5D Mark III Information [CR1]
« Reply #43 on: November 30, 2011, 07:13:49 AM »
Wishing for higher resolution from a fullframe camera is not insane :-). While APS-C may be close to what can reasonably be resolved with current lenses (Sony's new 24 megapixel APS-C does not provide much real resolution compared to say an 18 megapixel), fullframe cameras have so far had HUGE pixels, and fullframe lenses are not *that* bad.

Of all formats out there, 135 fullframe is probably the must underutilized concerning resolution, because ISO performance is usually of higher interest (photojournalism, sports, street, handheld in general). For us that shoot from a sturdy tripod and want as much resolution possible, somewhere 35 - 45 megapixels is suitable for fullframe. If the manufacturers want to they can take yet a chunk from the medium format market by pushing 135 fullframe as far as the lenses allow. Yes, you would need the best lenses working at limited apertures to get all the resolution and still accept a bit worse corner performance, just as in the medium format world.

I do make prints, and I use stitching now and then just to get more resolution. Say having 36 mp instead of 18 would make a great difference for me, it would get me over the "decency level" in several cases when I otherwise would need to stitch or compromise. Reducing from 21 to 18 would not be a great loss of course, but I also doubt that increase in DR will provide significant better results in practice at ISO100, which is the ISO I shoot at 99% of the time for landscapes. That is there would be little reason for a landscape photographer to upgrade from 5Dmk2 to 5Dmk3 if it comes with an 18 megapixel sensor.

Canon's TS-E 24mm II and TS-E 17mm are great lenses that would work well with a high resolution sensor, providing a very good system for architecture and landscape photographers, an cost-effective alternative to medium format. I would be somewhat surprised if Canon does not aim to provide at least one camera that make use the potential in the still-life oriented lenses they do have.

For those that shoot handheld, it is a whole different story. Actually I think 10-12 megapixel is enough for handheld, and ISO performance at 3200+ is a priority -- totally different needs than for a landscaper. A 40 megapixel camera which has a 10 megapixel bin mode perhaps could be the perfect all-around fullframe camera :-).
« Last Edit: November 30, 2011, 07:26:24 AM by torger »

dtaylor

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Re: 5D Mark III Information [CR1]
« Reply #44 on: November 30, 2011, 07:23:50 AM »
given the rumors are true and nikon is releasing a 36MP D800 im curious what new DSLR customers will buy. for years canon was raising MP and nikon was saying less MP are better.

now it seems the positions have suddenly changed.

If this is true then for the first time I will be considering adding Nikon to my setup. Sometime in the next year or so I would like to improve my ability to make large landscape prints from a single frame. An 18 MP 5D3 will offer me nothing in this regard over my 18 MP 7D. Cry noise and DR all you want. For low ISO landscapes printed big (>30") it's all about the pixel count.

The bummer is that Canon has the best T/S lenses and they scream for more MP. I couldn't care less about movie mode Canon! You need a high pixel count FF body for landscape and studio use.

Quote
most amateurs who have no clue still think more MP will make a better image.
even after years this is still stuck in their heads.

For some applications it is absolutely true. A 36 MP sensor will produce larger, more detailed low ISO landscape prints then an 18 MP one. No if's, and's, or but's.

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Re: 5D Mark III Information [CR1]
« Reply #44 on: November 30, 2011, 07:23:50 AM »