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Author Topic: 5D Mark III Information [CR1]  (Read 71859 times)

EOS 5D Mark III

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Re: 5D Mark III Information [CR1]
« Reply #135 on: December 01, 2011, 04:45:31 AM »
"The camera will be no more than 18mp. It was mentioned not to expect a big mp camera from Canon in the immediate future."

So what is "immediate future" for Canon? I don't see a launch of the EOS 5D Mark III until september-october 2012. I don't call that "immediate future".


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Re: 5D Mark III Information [CR1]
« Reply #135 on: December 01, 2011, 04:45:31 AM »

Jettatore

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Re: 5D Mark III Information [CR1]
« Reply #136 on: December 01, 2011, 05:01:19 AM »
I don't care which is called what myself, no matter, various names can be anywhere from 3D, 4D, 5D, 6D or even something like 5.5D or 5Ds depending on where they want to stick it.  I really am geared up for a body in a 5D size though, I don't appreciate the 1DX size, at all, (but I do like dual card-slots), otherwise the 1DX features are more or less what I am after, but the price and size is not.  Prices can come down, the size is permanent...  I do need both stills and video in one camera, if I didn't, I wouldn't even be here.  I also need two cameras, but both of which do stills and video, and work with one set of lenses.  I also want the build quality to be good on both bodies but I imagine this can be customized (voiding warranty) after the fact but that seems kind of, not so much fun.  It's going to be interesting seeing what they finally come up with, my guess, is that there is too much money for them to be making overall, lens sales included, to want to disappoint anybody and I'm hesitantly getting some confidence back after the C300 announcement that Canon won't disappoint with the new product announcements in 2012.  One thing, if they do make two 5D sized cameras, they should probably let both camps know at the same time or people are going to flip out and this thread has made that obvious.

te4o

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Re: 5D Mark III Information [CR1]
« Reply #137 on: December 01, 2011, 05:10:41 AM »
We can make this thread even 20 pages and there will still be NO CAMERA announced... :-\
And we can argue about the Good, the Bad and the Ugly in MPs and ISOs and landscapes but there are many gusto's and still NO CAMERA... :-\
So, better discuss more real things which make sense and have a teaching impulse, Canon  will do their job some day and deliver a low light DSLR AND a High MP DSLR so we can all have one of each ;).
5D3 (04/12), Carl Zeiss ZE 21, 35/1.4, 50MP, 100MP
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KeithR

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Re: 5D Mark III Information [CR1]
« Reply #138 on: December 01, 2011, 07:06:05 AM »
I LOVE LOVE LOVE the idea of less megapixels and better iso
Even though the one has sweet FA to to with the other...

7enderbender

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Re: 5D Mark III Information [CR1]
« Reply #139 on: December 01, 2011, 09:11:00 AM »
i personaly dont really mind more megapixels however seeing the lenses at the moment cant deliver enough detail for the 18+ mp sensors its a good point to stick to 18MP sensors for a year and perfect those.
maby if they find a way to imporve lenses further there is a point in adding more megapixels for this cheapass cropfreak.

I've heard this before and find it hard to believe. Do you have any data to back up that claim? The top shelf lenses today have (give or take) been around for decades in one way or another and have always been resolving high enough for film. How could they be not good enough for 18 or 21 or whatever MP sensors? There are certainly many issues today that could see improvement. Lens quality doesn't seem to be one of them really to me (other than the fact that we're pretty much married to AF these days and that lenses aren't that haptically appealing anymore).

There is a reason by the way why Leica decided to develop M-series cameras that take all of their old lenses. Seems to work really great.
5DII - 50L - 135L - 200 2.8L - 24-105 - 580EXII - 430EXII - FD 500/8 - AE1-p - bag full of FD lenses

dgb

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Re: 5D Mark III Information [CR1]
« Reply #140 on: December 01, 2011, 09:17:31 AM »
I LOVE LOVE LOVE the idea of less megapixels and better iso
Even though the one has sweet FA to to with the other...

That's kind of the point of all this talk about MPs , one has everything to do with the other.


AprilForever

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Re: 5D Mark III Information [CR1]
« Reply #141 on: December 01, 2011, 10:18:00 AM »
We can make this thread even 20 pages and there will still be NO CAMERA announced... :-\
And we can argue about the Good, the Bad and the Ugly in MPs and ISOs and landscapes but there are many gusto's and still NO CAMERA... :-\
So, better discuss more real things which make sense and have a teaching impulse, Canon  will do their job some day and deliver a low light DSLR AND a High MP DSLR so we can all have one of each ;).

My path to 7D High ISO ultra performance is to shoot at 6400, noise process it, and downres it, and glory at the wonders....

But I do marvel at how a CR1 managed to get 11 pages in like 2 days...
What is truth?

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Re: 5D Mark III Information [CR1]
« Reply #141 on: December 01, 2011, 10:18:00 AM »

Fleetie

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Re: 5D Mark III Information [CR1]
« Reply #142 on: December 01, 2011, 10:42:38 AM »
We can make this thread even 20 pages and there will still be NO CAMERA announced... :-\
And we can argue about the Good, the Bad and the Ugly in MPs and ISOs and landscapes but there are many gusto's and still NO CAMERA... :-\
So, better discuss more real things which make sense and have a teaching impulse, Canon  will do their job some day and deliver a low light DSLR AND a High MP DSLR so we can all have one of each ;).

My path to 7D High ISO ultra performance is to shoot at 6400, noise process it, and downres it, and glory at the wonders....

But I do marvel at how a CR1 managed to get 11 pages in like 2 days...

I'd like to give this a go. Normally, it's firm POLICY for me not to touch pics in post, ever.

But I do sometimes want to use high-ISO.

However, I run Linux, and only have (The) Gimp installed. I'd like to do 2x2 pixel binning, for a 4.5MPix
result from my 7D pics.

Anyone know how to do that binning in Gimp?

Thanks.

Martin
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LifeAfter

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Re: 5D Mark III Information [CR1]
« Reply #143 on: December 01, 2011, 11:01:44 AM »
Hi all

I don't know why a 5DII with digic 4 can have 21mp and 3.9/fps (14 bit a/d), and the 5DII would have 18mp digic 5 (perhaps) with 5 or 6 fps (while 7d has 18mp, 8fps two digics)...

I don't know if i'm clear with my English (sorry), but if it's true (the rumor) than it should have a hell of a DR and NOISELESS ISO, it should really be a great step forward, otherwise there isn't any logic to all of this

thank you
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Radiating

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Re: 5D Mark III Information [CR1]
« Reply #144 on: December 01, 2011, 11:14:46 AM »
i personaly dont really mind more megapixels however seeing the lenses at the moment cant deliver enough detail for the 18+ mp sensors its a good point to stick to 18MP sensors for a year and perfect those.
maby if they find a way to imporve lenses further there is a point in adding more megapixels for this cheapass cropfreak.

I've heard this before and find it hard to believe. Do you have any data to back up that claim? The top shelf lenses today have (give or take) been around for decades in one way or another and have always been resolving high enough for film. How could they be not good enough for 18 or 21 or whatever MP sensors? There are certainly many issues today that could see improvement. Lens quality doesn't seem to be one of them really to me (other than the fact that we're pretty much married to AF these days and that lenses aren't that haptically appealing anymore).

There is a reason by the way why Leica decided to develop M-series cameras that take all of their old lenses. Seems to work really great.

All you have to do is look at MTF data taken from test charts. The simple fact that we can even get an MTF figure by shooting a test chart with a camera means that the lens at some point cannot out resolve the sensor. MTF is actually a measure of resolution, just like megapixels, and you can convert between the two without much difficulty. If you look at the MTF data at the mid frame and use that as a marker for the whole lens you will find that many Canon zoom lenses can only resolve 10-18 megapixels at their sweet spot a kit lens generally resolves 10 and an L lens or some high end non-L lenes resolves 16.5-18. Many Canon prime lenses also only resolve 18 megapixels. ONLY a very select few super expensive lenses resolve more and are probably good for 30-40 MP, which we can figure out by looking at APS-C test charts.

The sharpness of a good lens is usually relatively consistent over the image circle, except at the very corners. The sharpness tends to vary less than 30% across the vast majority of the frame, so there are benefits to having more mexapixels to some of the image, but the majority of it will not benefit. Around 24 megapixels you see less than around 90% of the frame gaining from additional resolution.

Canon would not benefit from going up in megapixels until it introduces a new series of primes and normal zooms for full frame. They have the technology to make these high resolution lenses, but simply do not have products capable of doing the job.

I was personally hoping that Canon would introduce a much sharper line of lenses along with pushing the megapixels higher but obviously that's not been the case.

With the current state of the Canon lens line up I think that an 18 MP camera with much better image quality in a 5D III is the best solution.

jbwise01

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Re: 5D Mark III Information [CR1]
« Reply #145 on: December 01, 2011, 11:47:52 AM »
It’s quite clear with demonstrated ISO capabilities of the c300 are quite important. It seams that the rumor alludes to these High ISO performance features to be a major part of the 5D MIII.

Why doesn't everyone understand that improving the ISO performance is a HUG HUGE accomplishment?

High ISO performance is not just about shooting in low light. Let relax and remember exactly what ISO is all about… speed

Higher ISO means faster shutter speeds and larger DOF which increase the crispness and clarity of a photo under challenging conditions. High MP are surely the next step, but what MOST people complaining about megapixels don’t get is that increasing the megapixel count is NOT as important or as useful as increasing the ISO capabilities, and for that reason the MP jump will not come after the5D III. 

DavidRiesenberg

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Re: 5D Mark III Information [CR1]
« Reply #146 on: December 01, 2011, 12:12:45 PM »
For a lot of people high ISO means nothing. Landscape and studio photographers, barring extremely fringe situations will never use an ISO setting above the base or L value.

torger

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Re: 5D Mark III Information [CR1]
« Reply #147 on: December 01, 2011, 12:31:34 PM »
With the current state of the Canon lens line up I think that an 18 MP camera with much better image quality in a 5D III is the best solution.

It depends on what you expect. A 7D shows how the center portion will look of a 46 megapixel full-frame sensor. You will see dropoff in the corners, especially at large apertures of course, but at say f/8 you'll see good performance from many current lenses.

Here's a few example of current lenses that I think would work well with a high resolution sensor (in the 36 - 48 mp range):
TS-E 17, TS-E 24 II, 50/1.4, 85/1.8, TS-E 90, 100/2, 135/2, 70-200/2.8 II, 400/5.6, + high end tele lenses. These will provide good corner-to-corner performance at f/8, noticably less sharp when pixel-peeping yes, but no extreme differences. In short DoF photography corner performance is usually not very important. At 36 megapixels the pixel pitch is only 25% smaller than current 5Dmk2, so it is not extreme resolution increase we are talking about. If lenses were really bad at 36 megapixels, it would clearly show already at 21.

Wide angle and standard zooms will probably show the weakest performance (70-200 is a much better performing zoom range), and won't be the choice for a high res photographer. On the wide end we have the new TS-Es which are great, but I'd like to see a new TS-E 45mm, the current is not too good from a high res perspective.

Getting the most out of high res sensor does require expensive lenses on the wide end and on the tele end, but in the range 50 - 100 sharp is cheap.

It is not necessary to limit the sensor to what the worst lenses can provide. There will be binning modes, sRAW etc, for hand-held, high ISO, and less sharp lenses, you won't have to use max resolution when you don't need it.

There's also another aspect - "sharp pixels" (=aliased, jaggies) don't enlarge well. Is is good if the sensor has so high resolution that you get fairly soft pixels which can be stretched around in PP and enlarging without showing any artifacts. Low-res images without AA filter (i e Sigma) is the worst for enlarging.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2011, 12:39:43 PM by torger »

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Re: 5D Mark III Information [CR1]
« Reply #147 on: December 01, 2011, 12:31:34 PM »

jbwise01

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Re: 5D Mark III Information [CR1]
« Reply #148 on: December 01, 2011, 01:11:02 PM »
For a lot of people high ISO means nothing. Landscape and studio photographers, barring extremely fringe situations will never use an ISO setting above the base or L value.

I would argue that for the majority of the 5D MIII market, the ISO improvements would be more welcome than increase in MP. Personally, I would rather be able to shoot at ISO 8000 without worrying about noise, that would give me a lot of flexibilty and increase the usablility of my L zooms. Shooting wide open usually is out of the sweet spot for most lenses in terms of sharpness.

Would I like more MP? Sure, but if I had to choose between the MP and ISO i would choose ISO, everyone is different, but i think there are a lot less large print photos coming out of the curretn 5D cameras than these landscape photographers suggest.

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Re: 5D Mark III Information [CR1]
« Reply #149 on: December 01, 2011, 02:02:48 PM »
Personally, my biggest fear is that Canon would segment out the place that the 5D currently holds. When it came out, it offered a top of the line resolution, low light capability, video features in DSLR form and all that at a reasonable price. This combination is what made the 5D such a hit with an extremely wide variety of users. Now, more than three years later, taking into account the extremely fast pace of progress in electronics, from a technical point of view I don't think it is outrageous to expect a camera that improves on all of the capabilities of the 5DII and maintains the same price.

On the other hand, from a marketing point of view, I can see Canon wanting to segment out the 5D into an ISO camera, a high MP camera and video camera. And while it depends on exactly how much they would differentiate the products, it would be a disappointment to me if I find myself in the position of having to buy two different bodies to get the features and quality that three years of development could have brought to a single 5D body from a technical point of view.

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Re: 5D Mark III Information [CR1]
« Reply #149 on: December 01, 2011, 02:02:48 PM »