October 02, 2014, 10:50:30 AM

Author Topic: Fuji X10 or X100?  (Read 18155 times)

wickidwombat

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 4515
    • View Profile
Fuji X10 or X100?
« on: December 01, 2011, 01:10:35 AM »
I am looking to get a small camera that i can get into a concert with end of january.
I doubt they will let me in with a 1 or 5D and a bag o lenses. something to fit in the pocket and go in stealth

My main requirements are High ISO performance, Fast lens, shoot RAW full manual control,
Both the X100 and X10 look good X100 larger sensor X10 get IS and some zoom, its cheaper too
I also like the idea of the extended dynamic range mode if it captures in RAW i dont have a problem with
it dropping down to 6 MP

does anyone have experience with these? or any other alternatives?

Im guessing would need to be shooting at ISO 1600 to 3200 wide open to have a shutter around 1/125 to 1/250, dont really care about vid although I migth try grab a clip or 2 but more interested in shooting stills
APS-H Fanboy

canon rumors FORUM

Fuji X10 or X100?
« on: December 01, 2011, 01:10:35 AM »

Hillsilly

  • 1D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 772
    • View Profile
Re: Fuji X10 or X100?
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2011, 01:47:45 AM »
I've got an Olympus Pen.  It gets noticeably noisy at ISO 800.  If its on your list of possibilities, it won't give you the high ISO performance you are seeking.  (Except that it does have some reasonably priced fast lenses - eg the 45mm).

Have you looked at the Sony Nex-7? 
1000FN | 7E | 3000 | 3 | LS-100TS

funkboy

  • 7D
  • *****
  • Posts: 421
  • 6D & a bunch of crazy primes
    • View Profile
Re: Fuji X10 or X100?
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2011, 05:57:06 AM »
I also like the idea of the extended dynamic range mode if it captures in RAW i dont have a problem with it dropping down to 6 MP

I've got an X10 on the way.  A few non-obvious things I gleaned from the reviews:

  • According to the basic specs, the X10 doesn't support RAW mode in 6MP HDR and Sensitivity modes, but RAW is in fact available in HDR if you put it in 6MP RAW+jpeg mode (I believe I read this on DPreview).
  • Evidently battery life was somewhat compromised in order to make the body smaller & lighter.  I bought two extra batteries with my initial order.  They're 3rd party units, so we'll see if the battery meter still works with them (it doesn't with 3rd party batts on my Pana LX5).
  • The viewfinder is optically very good, but apparently doesn't display any information like SLRs do.  Certainly a cost-cutting measure to keep the price under the $600 mark...

The sample shots I've seen in Sensitivity (pixel-binning) mode at ISO3200 are nothing short of amazing for a camera with this sensor size.  Here's to hoping that there'll be a firmware update (or perhaps even a hack) that enables RAW in this mode.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2011, 06:03:08 AM by funkboy »

thejoyofsobe

  • Guest
Re: Fuji X10 or X100?
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2011, 08:56:01 AM »
i wouldn't think the X100's non-interchangeable 35mm equivalent prime would give you a lot of flexibility at a concert.

if it were me, then between the two the X10 having a 28-112mm equivalent f/2.0-2.8 manual zoom with an optical image stabilizer rated up to 4 stops would decide it for me. If I've already got a DSLR then paying twice as much for APS-C and hybrid viewfinder in a non-interchangeable lens, secondary camera isn't appealing to me. I could put that extra $600 to much better uses.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2011, 08:59:03 AM by thejoyofsobe »

wickidwombat

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 4515
    • View Profile
Re: Fuji X10 or X100?
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2011, 05:51:55 PM »
I also like the idea of the extended dynamic range mode if it captures in RAW i dont have a problem with it dropping down to 6 MP

I've got an X10 on the way.  A few non-obvious things I gleaned from the reviews:

  • According to the basic specs, the X10 doesn't support RAW mode in 6MP HDR and Sensitivity modes, but RAW is in fact available in HDR if you put it in 6MP RAW+jpeg mode (I believe I read this on DPreview).
  • Evidently battery life was somewhat compromised in order to make the body smaller & lighter.  I bought two extra batteries with my initial order.  They're 3rd party units, so we'll see if the battery meter still works with them (it doesn't with 3rd party batts on my Pana LX5).
  • The viewfinder is optically very good, but apparently doesn't display any information like SLRs do.  Certainly a cost-cutting measure to keep the price under the $600 mark...

The sample shots I've seen in Sensitivity (pixel-binning) mode at ISO3200 are nothing short of amazing for a camera with this sensor size.  Here's to hoping that there'll be a firmware update (or perhaps even a hack) that enables RAW in this mode.

cool, when you get it can you let me know if you can at least shoot the raw+jpg in the sensitivity mode?
does this mean you have to press the raw button before every shot? or hold it while shooting?
got a link to those 3200 sample shots?

The concert tickets are $600 each so to drop $600 on a camera that can take decent shot that i can actually use at the event will be worthwhile i think, i have been leaning toward the X10 over the X100

really keen to see some real world high iso samples though
APS-H Fanboy

funkboy

  • 7D
  • *****
  • Posts: 421
  • 6D & a bunch of crazy primes
    • View Profile
Re: Fuji X10 or X100?
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2011, 10:22:08 PM »
cool, when you get it can you let me know if you can at least shoot the raw+jpg in the sensitivity mode?
does this mean you have to press the raw button before every shot? or hold it while shooting?
got a link to those 3200 sample shots?

The concert tickets are $600 each so to drop $600 on a camera that can take decent shot that i can actually use at the event will be worthwhile i think, i have been leaning toward the X10 over the X100

What concert are you going to that costs $600?  Wow.

Here's the link to the DPreview article & samples.  This article specifically addresses the DR mode. I won't have the camera 'till Christmas so you're probably better off talking to the folks there & in the DPreview Fuji forum if you want to learn more.

Digital Outback Photo's review is also quite good.  I'll let you search for any others...
« Last Edit: December 01, 2011, 10:31:25 PM by funkboy »

wickidwombat

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 4515
    • View Profile
Re: Fuji X10 or X100?
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2011, 10:31:46 PM »
cool, when you get it can you let me know if you can at least shoot the raw+jpg in the sensitivity mode?
does this mean you have to press the raw button before every shot? or hold it while shooting?
got a link to those 3200 sample shots?

The concert tickets are $600 each so to drop $600 on a camera that can take decent shot that i can actually use at the event will be worthwhile i think, i have been leaning toward the X10 over the X100

What concert are you going to that costs $600?  Wow.

Here's the link to the DPreview article & samples.  This article specifically addresses the DR mode. I won't have the camera 'till Christmas so you're probably better off talking to the folks there & in the DPreview Fuji forum if you want to learn more.

this one http://www.roger-waters.com/
the best seats so i'll be close up to the front
APS-H Fanboy

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Fuji X10 or X100?
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2011, 10:31:46 PM »

olderdog

  • Guest
Re: Fuji X10 or X100?
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2011, 07:34:37 PM »
I bought an x100 a few weeks ago as a walk around camera. It's not that I lack geat with the Canon 5D2 and a load of lenses, a Canon s90 which also works well as a walk around. What I wanted was the experience of a viewfinder and it didn't even have to be as good as it is.

You might miss the zoom capability of the x10, but I think the x100 low level light performance is outstanding. The bigger sensor will give you less cause to worry about noise from high ISO. Both the x100 and the s90 have similar sensors in very very good in low light, The x100 would sometimes easily grab an image that was a task for the 5d2.

I sometimes miss the zoom, but if that's the case, I carry another camera. The x100 is a fast focuser and it's seriously unobtrusive. It's my preferred vehicle for street photography, takes me back a few decades. Also somewhere along the way, I acquired tilt. The horizon line is a try nice reference if it's important.

logaandm

  • Guest
Re: Fuji X10 or X100?
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2011, 10:15:37 PM »
Always a tough question since so much depends on shooting style and personal tolerance for IQ and camera size. I have both the X10 (recently bought) and the X100.

I will preface this by recommending you read the DP Review Fujifilm forum and check out the White Dot (or disc) Syndrome. This is real and it has the potential to ruin a shot. At this time I would recommend waiting until Fuji has addressed this issue. I lived with the 5DII "black" dot and WDS is far worse. A second, minor point, is Lightroom does not have RAW support for the X10 yet.

Assuming Fuji fixes the WDS, or your style of photography does not have much WDS then the X10 is capable of outstanding photographs. Fuji has pushed the limits of what a small sensor can do and coupled it with a very well matched lens ranging from f2.0-2.8 even at the telephoto end. The S95, for example, goes to f5.6 at the telephoto end and so is noticably soft as a result. Results in good light are really very good and results in low light are much better than other compact cameras.

The X100 is also an outstanding camera. A little quirky to use (as is the X10) but gives results comparable to the 5DII at comparable ISO. It lacks versitilty due to the fixed lens. However, the high ISO results from the X100 surpass those of the X10 without questions. Physics is physics and a small sensor simply doesn't collect the same number of photons as a large sensor.

I have the 5DII and when it matters it is the camera I take. On the last two major outings I took the X100 as well for use in the evening or when I didn't want to pack all the gear. For people shots in the evening, at the restaurant, or on the street the X100 is nearly ideal as is the 35mm equivilent focal length. It is so quiet!.

The less talked about issue is sensor size and control over DOF. One the advantages of the full-frame sensor is control over depth of field. The smaller the sensor the harder it is to do. This is another reason I take the 5DII. I often feel I don't get good bokeh or control over DOF even with APS-C size sensors. The X10, has,  of course, very limited in control over DOF.

So comparing the X100 to the X10 is a bit of a choice between a better ISO performance trade off with less focal length versitility. An expensive alternative is the M9 which gives a bit more versatility with more weight. When using LR noise on the M9 is acceptable even in fairly low light.

For me the X10 is a camera to take with me everywhere, with a zoom when I don't want to take any gear. Because of the zoom it is more versitile than the X100 and does OK in low light. It is that "camera you have with you" so it becomes the best camera. If/when Fuji fixes the WDS that is what I will use it for. Due to the size and difficulty in using it,  the X10 is not suitable for the less nerdy half of my personal partnership for whom the iPhone camera is mostly used because it has a single button.

In the end it really comes down to how much equipment you are willing to carry for any particular outing. The X10 is the best of the small (assuming no WDS), the 5DII (with fast  L lenses) is the best of the large (IMHO). The X100, K5, GH2 etc, are all in between. I have searched for the ideal solution and there is not. So in the end nothing beats the 5DII for IQ, low light and versitility so it always goes when it matters. After that, it is how much I am willing to carry.

Currently I carry the Pentax K5 everywhere because of the size and auto-iso modes. It does a great job but it still isn't a 5DII and I don't like the Sony senor style of colour and the dead shadows due to pre-RAW noise reduction.

UncleFester

  • Guest
Re: Fuji X10 or X100?
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2011, 06:59:56 PM »
I am looking to get a small camera that i can get into a concert with end of january.
I doubt they will let me in with a 1 or 5D and a bag o lenses. something to fit in the pocket and go in stealth


Is this band getting press? If so just call their media person and get a creds app. Save the p&s money for beer. :)

wickidwombat

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 4515
    • View Profile
Re: Fuji X10 or X100?
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2011, 07:07:46 PM »
I am looking to get a small camera that i can get into a concert with end of january.
I doubt they will let me in with a 1 or 5D and a bag o lenses. something to fit in the pocket and go in stealth


Is this band getting press? If so just call their media person and get a creds app. Save the p&s money for beer. :)

haha if they were a little band starting out that might work but I seriously doubt roger waters will let an unkonwn photog like me bring in pro gear, Hell if they would let me and give me access I would shoot everything for them for free and give them full use of all images
APS-H Fanboy

UncleFester

  • Guest
Re: Fuji X10 or X100?
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2011, 07:36:39 PM »
You sill may be able to get in. Most of these guys have no clue who is shooting but will buy pictures they like (never give pictures away).

If it were me, I'd call the venue and see what their policy is and where they can direct you.


I am  looking to get a small camera that i can get into a concert with end of january.
I doubt they will let me in with a 1 or 5D and a bag o lenses. something to fit in the pocket and go in stealth


Is this band getting press? If so just call their media person and get a creds app. Save the p&s money for beer. :)

haha if they were a little band starting out that might work but I seriously doubt roger waters will let an unkonwn photog like me bring in pro gear, Hell if they would let me and give me access I would shoot everything for them for free and give them full use of all images

elflord

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 705
    • View Profile
Re: Fuji X10 or X100?
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2011, 07:47:01 PM »
I am looking to get a small camera that i can get into a concert with end of january.
I doubt they will let me in with a 1 or 5D and a bag o lenses. something to fit in the pocket and go in stealth

My main requirements are High ISO performance, Fast lens, shoot RAW full manual control,
Both the X100 and X10 look good X100 larger sensor X10 get IS and some zoom, its cheaper too
I also like the idea of the extended dynamic range mode if it captures in RAW i dont have a problem with
it dropping down to 6 MP

does anyone have experience with these? or any other alternatives?

Im guessing would need to be shooting at ISO 1600 to 3200 wide open to have a shutter around 1/125 to 1/250, dont really care about vid although I migth try grab a clip or 2 but more interested in shooting stills

The focal length on the X100 probably isn't exactly optimal -- the X10 goes as long as 112mm equivalent. Actual aperture size is 10mm at the tele end, so you should be able to get a  reasonable shallow dof effect at the tele end.

Another idea: Panasonic GF2 in one pocket, an Olympus 45mm f/1.8 lens in another amd you get a fast prime setup, and a more useful focal length (90mm equivalent)
« Last Edit: December 05, 2011, 07:49:50 PM by elflord »

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Fuji X10 or X100?
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2011, 07:47:01 PM »

niccyboy

  • Guest
Re: Fuji X10 or X100?
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2011, 03:39:23 AM »
thinking about buying the x100 this week...

I don't need it... just want it. haha

ferdi

  • Rebel T5i
  • ****
  • Posts: 109
    • View Profile
Re: Fuji X10 or X100?
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2011, 07:09:12 AM »
I will preface this by recommending you read the DP Review Fujifilm forum and check out the White Dot (or disc) Syndrome. This is real and it has the potential to ruin a shot. At this time I would recommend waiting until Fuji has addressed this issue. I lived with the 5DII "black" dot and WDS is far worse. A second, minor point, is Lightroom does not have RAW support for the X10 yet.

Fujifilm plans X10 firmware in response to 'white disc' concerns (includes sample images).

Adobe employee at forums.adobe.com: "We're aware of the request and are working on [support for X10 in ACR].  Thanks for your patience."
So hopefully in LR 3.6 final or in the first 3.7 beta.
1D IV, 5D III, 5D II, 16-35L II, 24-70L II, 24-105L, 70-200L IS II, 300L IS, Σ 50, Σ 85, 1.4x III, 580EX II, 600EX-RT

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Fuji X10 or X100?
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2011, 07:09:12 AM »