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Author Topic: Canon 85mm 1.2LII vs Sigma 85mm 1.4  (Read 44301 times)

MazV-L

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Re: Canon 85mm 1.2LII vs Sigma 85mm 1.4
« Reply #45 on: December 08, 2011, 11:24:24 PM »
Is there a problem using the center point, recomposing and then taking shot?


With fast lenses shot wide open with a reasonably close subject, you're guaranteeing a back-focused shot.  See this article.  It's enough of a problem that some Hasselblad cameras use a gyro sensor to detect the degree of angular motion when you recompose, and adjust the focus to compensate...


you can focus on their nose and recompose then the eyes are pretty sharp... unless they have a gigantic honker that is....


I favour the focus-recompose method when using my 85f1.2ii on my classic 5D, to overcome the back-focus problem with this method I decrease the aperture to f1.6 for a slightly wider DOF, also find this aperture helps me to nail more shots of my children who won't keep still for a photo!

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Re: Canon 85mm 1.2LII vs Sigma 85mm 1.4
« Reply #45 on: December 08, 2011, 11:24:24 PM »

wickidwombat

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Re: Canon 85mm 1.2LII vs Sigma 85mm 1.4
« Reply #46 on: December 11, 2011, 11:24:23 PM »
Well I bit the bullet and picked up a Sigma 85 f1.4!
my first sigma lens, I tested it out in store against the canon

boy that canon looks good but the cost difference was massive and the store had the sigma on sale
$999 which is only $90 more than getting it from digital rev off ebay and I get the ability to take it in if i hae any issues with it.
immediate impressions were that the AF speed is ALOT faster on the sigma than on the canon 1.2
build quality is quite nice too
I can't wait to give it a workout later on
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branden

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Re: Canon 85mm 1.2LII vs Sigma 85mm 1.4
« Reply #47 on: December 12, 2011, 01:02:55 AM »
So it didn't explode into a fiery ball of scrap metal the instant you attached it to your camera? That's what the internet has led me to believe Sigma lenses do

wickidwombat

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Re: Canon 85mm 1.2LII vs Sigma 85mm 1.4
« Reply #48 on: December 12, 2011, 01:16:40 AM »
So it didn't explode into a fiery ball of scrap metal the instant you attached it to your camera? That's what the internet has led me to believe Sigma lenses do

strangley enoguht NOT YET!

AF is FAST on this puppy
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willrobb

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Re: Canon 85mm 1.2LII vs Sigma 85mm 1.4
« Reply #49 on: December 12, 2011, 05:35:48 AM »
Well I bit the bullet and picked up a Sigma 85 f1.4!
my first sigma

I think you've done a good thing. Despite the reports that some of the Sigma copies have wonky AF, there are a lot more people saying it's a top notch lens. There are a few dodgy 7D and 5DmkII copies out there, we all know they arerhe minority and it doesn't put us off, so we shouldn't be put off by any reports about third party lenses that seem to be in the minority either.

alipaulphotography

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Re: Canon 85mm 1.2LII vs Sigma 85mm 1.4
« Reply #50 on: December 12, 2011, 05:50:42 AM »
So it didn't explode into a fiery ball of scrap metal the instant you attached it to your camera? That's what the internet has led me to believe Sigma lenses do

Haha - People do say some nasty things about sigmas! I just think most users struggle with focus at wide apertures and feel like blaming it on the lens and exclaiming that the canon 'must' be better. I've got the 50 and the 85 sigma, both bought 2nd hand without trying them out first. Haven't noticed a single problem shooting wide open. Not one bit. I think they are both fantastic.

Personally never agree to listen to others when buying lenses - What is good for some people might not be good for others. Know what you want/need and get it regardless of what others say.

wickidwombat

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Re: Canon 85mm 1.2LII vs Sigma 85mm 1.4
« Reply #51 on: December 12, 2011, 07:02:13 AM »
when i tested the copy in the shop on their body i noticed it was front focusing it was definately off compared to their demo but not massively

after micro calibration on my cameras ended up +13 on the 5D mk2 and +6 on the 1D mk3, it was the last new copy they had at that price, i could take it back and exchange it for the store demo copy which seemed to be less off, doesnt really bother me as all my cameras have micro adjust but i think if anyone tried this lens on a camera without micro adjust it would upset them

would you swap it out for the demo which would most likely need less adjustment? as it is on my cameras I have the focus bang on now, pretty impressed, it is really really sharp
i even put the kenko 1.4 tc on it and a f2 (wide open) it is insanely sharp just adds a bit of CA in certain light
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Re: Canon 85mm 1.2LII vs Sigma 85mm 1.4
« Reply #51 on: December 12, 2011, 07:02:13 AM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon 85mm 1.2LII vs Sigma 85mm 1.4
« Reply #52 on: December 12, 2011, 10:07:18 AM »
when i tested the copy in the shop on their body i noticed it was front focusing it was definately off compared to their demo but not massively

after micro calibration on my cameras ended up +13 on the 5D mk2 and +6 on the 1D mk3, it was the last new copy they had at that price, i could take it back and exchange it for the store demo copy which seemed to be less off, doesnt really bother me as all my cameras have micro adjust but i think if anyone tried this lens on a camera without micro adjust it would upset them

would you swap it out for the demo which would most likely need less adjustment? as it is on my cameras I have the focus bang on now, pretty impressed, it is really really sharp

If you had a 60D, you'd be screwed.  Thus, the complaints about Sigma lenses.  With some exceptions (like the Sigma 50/1.4 with focus shift), AFMA can correct many of the problems (at least the systematic ones, reportedly there are inconsistent issues with some Sigma lenses, too).

As for taking it back, +13 is a pretty hefty adjsustment.  You are running the risk that if you get another body someday which is further off in the other direction, +20 might not be enough to correct the mismatch.
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wickidwombat

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Re: Canon 85mm 1.2LII vs Sigma 85mm 1.4
« Reply #53 on: December 12, 2011, 05:18:37 PM »
when i tested the copy in the shop on their body i noticed it was front focusing it was definately off compared to their demo but not massively

after micro calibration on my cameras ended up +13 on the 5D mk2 and +6 on the 1D mk3, it was the last new copy they had at that price, i could take it back and exchange it for the store demo copy which seemed to be less off, doesnt really bother me as all my cameras have micro adjust but i think if anyone tried this lens on a camera without micro adjust it would upset them

would you swap it out for the demo which would most likely need less adjustment? as it is on my cameras I have the focus bang on now, pretty impressed, it is really really sharp

If you had a 60D, you'd be screwed.  Thus, the complaints about Sigma lenses.  With some exceptions (like the Sigma 50/1.4 with focus shift), AFMA can correct many of the problems (at least the systematic ones, reportedly there are inconsistent issues with some Sigma lenses, too).

As for taking it back, +13 is a pretty hefty adjsustment.  You are running the risk that if you get another body someday which is further off in the other direction, +20 might not be enough to correct the mismatch.

yeah this is my concern its a big difference between the 2 bodies though especially considering i have done it for all my other canon lenses and they are almost spot on at 0 on both bodies, so close its hard so say if moving the micro adjust 1 or 2 either way would make a difference. maybe i should take it in and try the demo on my cameras and see what the adjustment would be on that copy, they also have a 1 yearold second hand one they are selling pretty cheap.

AF is extremely responsive though and it is very sharp, significantly sharper than my canon 50mm f1.4, the build quality feels very nice and the focus ring is quite stiff so if using manual focus you dont accidently bump it off focus when you take your hand away, the canon 50mm f1.4 the focus ring is quite loose i feel.

overall value for money it seems pretty good so far, i mean you can buy 2 and half of these for what a canon 85 f11.2 costs and the AF on the canon was really really slow in comparison (I tested the sigma out first)
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elflord

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Re: Canon 85mm 1.2LII vs Sigma 85mm 1.4
« Reply #54 on: December 12, 2011, 08:45:33 PM »
If you had a 60D, you'd be screwed. 

You can ship it off to Sigma and have them calibrate it to your body. Not convenient, but not screwed either.

torger

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Re: Canon 85mm 1.2LII vs Sigma 85mm 1.4
« Reply #55 on: December 16, 2011, 03:45:29 AM »
I've looked at the Canon 85/1.2 and Sigma 85/1.4. I'm mainly interested in shallow DoF photography of people.

The Sigma 85/1.4 seems nice, but concerning shallow DoF it seems like the Sigma does not at all go out of focus as much as the Canon, even at the same aperture.

Look at the girl at the fence in this review:
http://www.thedigitalpicture.com/Reviews/Sigma-85mm-f-1.4-EX-DG-HSM-Lens-Review.aspx
and compare f/1.4 - f/1.8, look at the fence behind the girl.

For Sigma f/1.4 to f/1.8 the "out of focus look" is almost the same, just with different vignetting. For Canon f/1.2 and f/1.4 are rather similar, but there are much clearer differences in out of focus look f/1.2 - f/1.8. f/1.4 on Sigma looks similar to f/2.0 on the Canon, that is the Canon can give much more of the desired buttery background. Sigma's bokeh is nice, it is not just as smeared as the Canon.

Since getting shallow DoF -- kind of a medium format look -- is the main reason for me to get a 85/1.2 or 1.4 instead of the low cost Canon 85/1.8, I've become a bit skeptical about Sigma. It is indeed much cheaper than Canon 85/1.2 but if it still is a half-measure concerning shallow DoF, why not just go for the cheap 85/1.8 instead?

I've read that the auto focus of the Canon 85mm/1.2 is not really fast. Anyone who knows how slow it is? For people I'm sure it's ok, you don't need fast focus there, but is it possible to shoot indoor sports for example? Today I use a 70-200/2.8 II for that purpose.

MazV-L

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Re: Canon 85mm 1.2LII vs Sigma 85mm 1.4
« Reply #56 on: December 16, 2011, 06:31:43 AM »


I've read that the auto focus of the Canon 85mm/1.2 is not really fast. Anyone who knows how slow it is? For people I'm sure it's ok, you don't need fast focus there, but is it possible to shoot indoor sports for example? Today I use a 70-200/2.8 II for that purpose.

I'm not into action/sport photography but I once tried to use my 85 f1.2 to take photos of children using a slip and slide at a party my kids went to- didn't work too well, not many keepers :'( Focus definitely not fast enough! However, is DEFINITELY my favourite indoor portrait lens!

alipaulphotography

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Re: Canon 85mm 1.2LII vs Sigma 85mm 1.4
« Reply #57 on: December 16, 2011, 07:47:11 AM »


I've read that the auto focus of the Canon 85mm/1.2 is not really fast. Anyone who knows how slow it is? For people I'm sure it's ok, you don't need fast focus there, but is it possible to shoot indoor sports for example? Today I use a 70-200/2.8 II for that purpose.


I'm not into action/sport photography but I once tried to use my 85 f1.2 to take photos of children using a slip and slide at a party my kids went to- didn't work too well, not many keepers :'( Focus definitely not fast enough! However, is DEFINITELY my favourite indoor portrait lens!


Depth of field at 1.2 and even 1.4 is paper thin if doing a head & shoulders portrait. I wouldn't rely on the autofocus that much in those situations and manual focus for the eyes. Even recomposing slightly will move the focus right off.

I wouldn't want depth of field any thinner than my sigma 1.4. Bokeh is dreamy gorgeous.




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Re: Canon 85mm 1.2LII vs Sigma 85mm 1.4
« Reply #57 on: December 16, 2011, 07:47:11 AM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon 85mm 1.2LII vs Sigma 85mm 1.4
« Reply #58 on: December 16, 2011, 09:24:07 AM »
I've read that the auto focus of the Canon 85mm/1.2 is not really fast. Anyone who knows how slow it is? For people I'm sure it's ok, you don't need fast focus there, but is it possible to shoot indoor sports for example? Today I use a 70-200/2.8 II for that purpose.

I'll second what MazV-L stated.  I have charitably described the 85L's AF speed as 'ponderous'.  It's a front-focusing lens (i.e. the front elements extend outward from the barrel when focusing), and that's a lot of heavy glass to move. 

I did a quick test this morning, comparing the 85L to the 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II, since you mention using that lens.  The time to rack the AF from the minimum focus distance to infinity was ~0.7s for the 70-200mm, and ~1.6s for the 85L.  If you're shooting something where the focusing distance changes rapidly or you need to switch from subject to subject at different distances (both of which would seem likely in many indoor sports), the AF speed of the 85L is going to be a real handicap.  Most other fast primes in around that range (85/1.8, 100/2, 135L) focus very fast.

Depth of field at 1.2 and even 1.4 is paper thin if doing a head & shoulders portrait. I wouldn't rely on the autofocus that much in those situations and manual focus for the eyes.

If you're going to manually focus at apertures wider than f/2.8, you'll want a high-precision focusing screen.  The stock screens in current cameras show the DoF of ~f/2.5 even if the lens is wider than that (stop a fast lens progressively down while looking through the VF and holding the DoF Preview button, and you'll notice that the VF doesn't get any darker until you get to f/2.5).  Focusing at f/1.2 or f/1.4 while viewing the DoF of f/2.5 is not that accurate (AF may very well be better), but the precision screen (Eg-S for the 5DII, for example) will show the true DoF of a fast lens.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2011, 09:25:40 AM by neuroanatomist »
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shermanstank

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Re: Canon 85mm 1.2LII vs Sigma 85mm 1.4
« Reply #59 on: December 16, 2011, 10:00:43 AM »
Different strokes for different folks. But the 85 1.2L II is pure magic especially on film's excellent dynamic range  The dreamy bokeh would make you drink some more.  :D

The image below was shot on a very cloudy/overcast day using my Canon 1V-HS and the 85 1.2L II.  Wide open of course  ;D

KODAK EKTAR 100
« Last Edit: December 17, 2011, 12:26:36 AM by shermanstank »

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Re: Canon 85mm 1.2LII vs Sigma 85mm 1.4
« Reply #59 on: December 16, 2011, 10:00:43 AM »