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Author Topic: Canon 85mm 1.2LII vs Sigma 85mm 1.4  (Read 49428 times)

torger

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Re: Canon 85mm 1.2LII vs Sigma 85mm 1.4
« Reply #60 on: December 16, 2011, 10:32:39 AM »
Depth of field at 1.2 and even 1.4 is paper thin if doing a head & shoulders portrait. I wouldn't rely on the autofocus that much in those situations and manual focus for the eyes. Even recomposing slightly will move the focus right off.

I wouldn't want depth of field any thinner than my sigma 1.4. Bokeh is dreamy gorgeous.

I'm doing some fairly deep water speculation here, since my shallow DoF photography experience is not as good as landscape photography (which is my main interest). Anyway - with my limited experience so far it seems to me that the difference between f/1.2 and say f/2.0 concerning focus placement is not big at all - in both cases you need to nail right it within say 5mm. The thing is that already at f/2 the DoF is short enough for you to see on exactly where in the face the focal plane sits so you already have the problem, and it does not get much worse at f/1.2. Am I right or wrong about this? Someone more experienced could comment.

Concerning focus-and-recompose, I've done some calculations and the only time you get issues is when you change your angle really much, which typically only occurs with a wide angle lens. Head-and-shoulder portraits is no problem, with a typical 85mm headshot you change the distance with ~1.6mm by recomposing. The longer tele lens you have the less of an angle is (typically) required to recompose and the lesser is the problem. I don't think 85mm in typical use will have much of this problem.

Still, Hasselblad has a feature for this, "True Focus", so the problem exists in some conditions, here's an illustration I found on the web:
http://akelstudio.s3.amazonaws.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/true_focus_illust.png
it shows the angle of view of a 24mm lens though, and in that particular example the focal plane will move about 130mm.

So far I have shot short DoF with 70-200/2.8 and 50/1.4 using autofocus central point only and I'm quite pleased with the hit rate, so I think autofocus and recomposing will work.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2011, 10:36:22 AM by torger »

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Re: Canon 85mm 1.2LII vs Sigma 85mm 1.4
« Reply #60 on: December 16, 2011, 10:32:39 AM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon 85mm 1.2LII vs Sigma 85mm 1.4
« Reply #61 on: December 16, 2011, 01:46:02 PM »
Nice image, which also happens to show the bane of the 85L - longitudinal CA.
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Re: Canon 85mm 1.2LII vs Sigma 85mm 1.4
« Reply #62 on: December 16, 2011, 03:12:33 PM »
Adorama has just taken $100 off the Sigma: http://www.adorama.com/SG8514EOS.html?EmailPrice=T
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branden

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Re: Canon 85mm 1.2LII vs Sigma 85mm 1.4
« Reply #63 on: December 16, 2011, 04:40:55 PM »
Look at the girl at the fence in this review:
http://www.thedigitalpicture.com/Reviews/Sigma-85mm-f-1.4-EX-DG-HSM-Lens-Review.aspx
and compare f/1.4 - f/1.8, look at the fence behind the girl.

For Sigma f/1.4 to f/1.8 the "out of focus look" is almost the same, just with different vignetting. For Canon f/1.2 and f/1.4 are rather similar, but there are much clearer differences in out of focus look f/1.2 - f/1.8. f/1.4 on Sigma looks similar to f/2.0 on the Canon, that is the Canon can give much more of the desired buttery background. Sigma's bokeh is nice, it is not just as smeared as the Canon.
Keep in mind, that that specific example is not a fair test of out-of-focus blur, since the repeating pattern of the fence is creating constructive interference as the out-of-focus blur of each fence post overlaps that of the neighboring posts. You can see this factor come into play between the f/2.8 and f/2 photos, as the fence appears blurrier at f/2.8, since at f/2 the constructive interference is affecting the bokeh quality.

The bokeh comparison further down the page will give a more straightforward comparison.

thepancakeman

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Re: Canon 85mm 1.2LII vs Sigma 85mm 1.4
« Reply #64 on: December 16, 2011, 05:01:56 PM »
Nice image, which also happens to show the bane of the 85L - longitudinal CA.

It does?  Great!...what is it?   ???

In other words, looking at the picture can you describe what longitudinal CA looks like for those of us who don't know what that is?

torger

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Re: Canon 85mm 1.2LII vs Sigma 85mm 1.4
« Reply #65 on: December 16, 2011, 05:32:16 PM »
Nice image, which also happens to show the bane of the 85L - longitudinal CA.

It does?  Great!...what is it?   ???

In other words, looking at the picture can you describe what longitudinal CA looks like for those of us who don't know what that is?

It is magenta cast in the out of focus blur, particularly visible at large apertures, like this, at f/1.2:
http://www.photozone.de/images/8Reviews/lenses/canon_85_12_5d/loca_f12.jpg

all lenses have it though, more or less.

wickidwombat

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Re: Canon 85mm 1.2LII vs Sigma 85mm 1.4
« Reply #66 on: December 16, 2011, 05:50:54 PM »
Comparing them side by side I would say the sigma AF Is 3 times faster than the canon 1.2
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Re: Canon 85mm 1.2LII vs Sigma 85mm 1.4
« Reply #66 on: December 16, 2011, 05:50:54 PM »

DW

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Re: Canon 85mm 1.2LII vs Sigma 85mm 1.4
« Reply #67 on: December 16, 2011, 06:55:37 PM »
I just had to weigh in on this conversation as I shoot most of my portraits using the Canon 85 1.2L on the 5d MKII. I LOVE the lens and the bokeh is just simple gorgeous. The razor thin DOF at 1.2 is something to master. Women are the main subjects I use wide open at 1.2. There's just the dreaminess that goes with shooting at that aperture.

When I first bought the lens, I didn't realize how thin the DOF was going to be until I seriously used it for some shoots. I would get as close up to the face as I could so I would get noses in focus but not the eyes but I was aiming for the eye, shifted a bit most likely. Now I work pretty well with it after using it for over a year. Just wanted to share some clear examples of it.  I can't say how well the Sigma is as I haven't used it before but until the 85 III comes out, I wouldn't trade this slow, big, beautiful baby.

PS. definitely not for action as focus is too slow, its more of a portrait lens but the low light capability is astonishing. For film/video, I stick with the Nikkor AI-s 85mm 1.4 for manual aperture ring and easier manual focusing.

http://dawen.smugmug.com/Cosplay-Photography/Saber/i-sLtTxnm/0/XL/IMG6659-XL.jpg
http://dawen.smugmug.com/Cosplay-Photography/Saber/i-CzBMwZZ/0/XL/IMG6646-XL.jpg
http://dawen.smugmug.com/Cosplay-Photography/Leigh-Anne-Brittany/i-drLgCx6/0/XL/IMG6564-XL.jpg
http://dawen.smugmug.com/Cosplay-Photography/Leigh-Anne-Brittany/i-rq9LK7r/0/XL/IMG6548-XL.jpg
http://dawen.smugmug.com/Events/Conceal-Her-Rehearsal/i-Lpsjm2h/1/XL/IMG6381-XL.jpg
http://dawen.smugmug.com/Events/Conceal-Her-Rehearsal/i-zm5ndPF/1/XL/IMG6349-XL.jpg
http://dawen.smugmug.com/Portraits/Johnny-Wu-Soho-Suit/i-H95Rfq4/1/XL/IMG7316-2-Edit-XL.jpg

-DW
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« Last Edit: December 16, 2011, 06:58:33 PM by DW »

shermanstank

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Re: Canon 85mm 1.2LII vs Sigma 85mm 1.4
« Reply #68 on: December 17, 2011, 01:05:45 AM »
NEUROANATOMIST----  Thanks for pointing out the Purple Fringing. I overlooked it.  :o  I edited the picture and is now a lot better!   ;D   The 85 1.2L II is just one beautiful, monstrous lens. 

Sherwin
« Last Edit: December 17, 2011, 01:14:33 AM by shermanstank »

torger

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Re: Canon 85mm 1.2LII vs Sigma 85mm 1.4
« Reply #69 on: December 17, 2011, 04:57:21 AM »
[Keep in mind, that that specific example is not a fair test of out-of-focus blur, since the repeating pattern of the fence is creating constructive interference as the out-of-focus blur of each fence post overlaps that of the neighboring posts. You can see this factor come into play between the f/2.8 and f/2 photos, as the fence appears blurrier at f/2.8, since at f/2 the constructive interference is affecting the bokeh quality.

The bokeh comparison further down the page will give a more straightforward comparison.

I think the f/1.2 - f/1.8 range is most interesting. You can look at the tree in the background instead.

For f/2 and up there are cheaper alternatives. The test further down the page show f/5.6, and there Canon 85/1.8 is a great lens too.

I don't think Sigma is bad, but if I buy a lens primarily for shallow DoF it seems like the canon has an edge, even at f/1.4


willrobb

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Re: Canon 85mm 1.2LII vs Sigma 85mm 1.4
« Reply #70 on: December 17, 2011, 10:14:58 AM »
I just had to weigh in on this conversation as I shoot most of my portraits using the Canon 85 1.2L on the 5d MKII. I LOVE the lens and the bokeh is just simple gorgeous. The razor thin DOF at 1.2 is something to master. Women are the main subjects I use wide open at 1.2. There's just the dreaminess that goes with shooting at that aperture.

When I first bought the lens, I didn't realize how thin the DOF was going to be until I seriously used it for some shoots. I would get as close up to the face as I could so I would get noses in focus but not the eyes but I was aiming for the eye, shifted a bit most likely. Now I work pretty well with it after using it for over a year. Just wanted to share some clear examples of it.  I can't say how well the Sigma is as I haven't used it before but until the 85 III comes out, I wouldn't trade this slow, big, beautiful baby.

PS. definitely not for action as focus is too slow, its more of a portrait lens but the low light capability is astonishing. For film/video, I stick with the Nikkor AI-s 85mm 1.4 for manual aperture ring and easier manual focusing.

http://dawen.smugmug.com/Cosplay-Photography/Saber/i-sLtTxnm/0/XL/IMG6659-XL.jpg
http://dawen.smugmug.com/Cosplay-Photography/Saber/i-CzBMwZZ/0/XL/IMG6646-XL.jpg
http://dawen.smugmug.com/Cosplay-Photography/Leigh-Anne-Brittany/i-drLgCx6/0/XL/IMG6564-XL.jpg
http://dawen.smugmug.com/Cosplay-Photography/Leigh-Anne-Brittany/i-rq9LK7r/0/XL/IMG6548-XL.jpg
http://dawen.smugmug.com/Events/Conceal-Her-Rehearsal/i-Lpsjm2h/1/XL/IMG6381-XL.jpg
http://dawen.smugmug.com/Events/Conceal-Her-Rehearsal/i-zm5ndPF/1/XL/IMG6349-XL.jpg
http://dawen.smugmug.com/Portraits/Johnny-Wu-Soho-Suit/i-H95Rfq4/1/XL/IMG7316-2-Edit-XL.jpg

-DW
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Canon 50mm 1.8 II
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Canon 70-200 2.8L II IS
Sigma 28mm 1.8
Nikkor AI-s 20mm 2.8
Nikkor AI-s 50mm 1.2
Nikkor AI-s 85mm 1.4

Some brilliant shots there, really beautiful portraits.

I think you have summed up the canon 85mm f1.2LII with your photos and your comments about the AF not being for action shots. Your shots show just how good this lens is, when it hits the mark other lenses don't come close, but it's not one for fast moving action. There the Sigma f1.4 or even the canon 85mm f1.8 probably wins.

I guess it's a matter of what someone will be shooting that dictates Whig lens to buy.

wickidwombat

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Re: Canon 85mm 1.2LII vs Sigma 85mm 1.4
« Reply #71 on: December 18, 2011, 07:53:18 PM »
well after shooting a wedding on the weekend with the sigma 85 f1.4, 1 thing that was really annoying is how protruding the AF/MF switch is, it was constantly getting knocked from AF to MF other than that it performed extremely well very fast AF and accurate too.
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willrobb

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Re: Canon 85mm 1.2LII vs Sigma 85mm 1.4
« Reply #72 on: December 23, 2011, 07:18:08 AM »
Went to my usual lens store for a final play with the Sigma 85 and the canon 85mm 1.2LII. Part of me hoped I would get a Sigma with a wonky AF and the canon would be spot on, the lure of another red ring was calling me....but for the third time in a row I was pretty impressed with the Sigma AF and build quality....and price (hard to see much IQ difference when doing test shots in a store). So, I bought the Sigma, spent more of the left over money on my wife's Christmas and I think I've ensured household festive harmony for another year. Result.

Haven't used the Sigma for work yet, maybe use it next week venue permitting, but from a few test snaps on the street I am thinking I got a good deal with the Sigma.

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Re: Canon 85mm 1.2LII vs Sigma 85mm 1.4
« Reply #72 on: December 23, 2011, 07:18:08 AM »

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Re: Canon 85mm 1.2LII vs Sigma 85mm 1.4
« Reply #73 on: December 23, 2011, 08:35:06 AM »
So, I bought the Sigma, spent more of the left over money on my wife's Christmas and I think I've ensured household festive harmony for another year.

+1!  This might be off topic but you made me laugh with this comment.  As they say:  Happy wife, happy life!  Good move willrobb.   8)
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Re: Canon 85mm 1.2LII vs Sigma 85mm 1.4
« Reply #74 on: December 23, 2011, 08:38:03 AM »
I'ma gonna have to get me a 85 1.4... at some point...
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Re: Canon 85mm 1.2LII vs Sigma 85mm 1.4
« Reply #74 on: December 23, 2011, 08:38:03 AM »