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Author Topic: Canon EOS Rebel T4i [CR2]  (Read 36735 times)

Craig Richardson

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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i [CR2]
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2011, 02:17:10 PM »
I think the fact that we have not seen a Canon Roadmap in a while is hinting that they are changing marketing strategies and keeping their cards close to their vest.  All indications seem to point to a freeze in the megapixel race in regards to the top level bodies. 

The last couple of times I have overheard salesmen at camera stores they have been pushing XXX% zoom levels.  If increasing the megapixels in the rebel bodies allows the sales drones to include digital zooming or cropping in heir sales pitch they will eat it up!

I can hear it now!
"And with this 35 megapixel compact body you only have to point it in the general direction of the target and you can later crop down to a 18 megapixel image, just like the 1DX body!!"
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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i [CR2]
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2011, 02:17:10 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i [CR2]
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2011, 02:18:26 PM »
I have only one question.. Why, why WHY?
Why do they even need to update the series? Cameras are not old, are not outdated, and it just seems stupid to release a new camera, just because of higher mp count. There's no real improvement. And there's a product for everyone. What do you miss? What kind of camera? Don't tell me, that anyone actually waits impatiently for a new rebel or xxD camera?
The only hole in canon's body lineup might be an affordable FF camera, but even so, 5dII is still selling well.

Not even for a higher MP count - the T3i/600D used the same sensor as its predecessor (and same as the 60D and 7D).  But the point of the Rebel/xxxD line isn't to entice people to upgrade from a previous camera in the line, it's to attract customers to buy their first dSLR and thus bring them into the brand (buying lenses, etc.).  So, the point is just to keep the line 'fresh' for comsumers upgrading from P&S cameras.

Oh, and I think the Digic 5+ is exclusive for the FF. So don't think they put 2 Digic 5+ in the 7D MKII - just my 2cents

Why do you think that?  It seems that dual Digic5+ is required to process 18 MP at 12 fps, just like dual Digic4 was required for 18 MP at 8 fps (and apparently, that was at the limit for Digic4 x2).  The Digic processor neither knows nor cares how large a pixel is, nor the size of the array they're in, just how many there are.  I suspect processor choice has little to do with sensor size, but rather is determined by the amount of data needing to be processed, i.e. the MP count. 
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NormanBates

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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i [CR2]
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2011, 02:20:29 PM »
* you may stay with the camera you own
* we video shooters desperately want to get rid of the aliasing/moire from the current lineup

about the rumor: 18 or 24 mpix still unclear point to this being not much better than my own speculation (which would be: current 18mpix sensor plus digic 5, for something that's nearly identical to the 600D/T3i but probably -but not for sure- has no aliasing/moire, and records the same resolutions and frame rates at 4:2:0 H.264 but with a more efficient codec, so half the bitrate but same quality; 9 months later, magic lantern may unleash the nice 422 codec from the 1Dx onto such a 600D) (if this sounds minor to you, keep in mind: this would mean instant upgrade to every canon DSLR video shooter, except 5D2 owners, who would most probably keep their 5D2 and get this new camera as a different option)

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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i [CR2]
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2011, 02:21:08 PM »
I can hear it now!
"And with this 35 megapixel compact body you only have to point it in the general direction of the target and you can later crop down to a 18 megapixel image, just like the 1DX body!!"

Haha made my day, thanks!  ;D
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Independent

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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i [CR2]
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2011, 02:24:47 PM »
Wouldn't it be logical for Canon to introduce the T4i and other goodies before the colocated PMA and CES shows in January?

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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i [CR2]
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2011, 02:25:36 PM »
I have only one question.. Why, why WHY?
Why do they even need to update the series?

I would venture to say it's because Canon makes money by selling cameras.  Sales often (usually?) has very little to do with what is best (ref. betamax) and a lot to do with psychology and market pressures. 

Which do you think sells better:  "the all new..." or the "hasn't changed in 5 years..." camera?  Obviously some consumers can see around/thru this, but as a whole--not going to happen.

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i [CR2]
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2011, 02:33:33 PM »
My wishful thinking: a more modest increase (21 mp) or no increase (keep at 18 mp) for the 7DII with improvements in noise, dynamic range and ISO. This allows clear differentiation between the 7D and the Rebel line.

I keep asking myself, what would cause me to upgrade from a 7D to a 7DII? I'm not an anti-megapixel person, but that alone won't do it for me and I suspect it won't do it for most 7D owners.

Some argue that current 7D owners aren't the target market (Canon wants to lure Rebel and 60D owners). To some extent that may be true, but two thoughts there: First, sophisticated Rebel and 60D owners also need to be convinced that the 7D is superior enough to warrant the upgrade...

The 1D X's 12 fps opens up room for a 7DII to have up 9-10 fps, so that's one obvious possible improvement.  I do think they'll improve ISO noise performance as well.  They might give the 7DII a new metering sensor that's somewhere in between the 1D X's 100K RGB pixels and the current 63 dual-layer zones. 

AF, frame rate, and build quality provide clear differentiator for the 7D line from the Rebel line - after all, those are the same differentiators of the 1-series from the other xD series bodies, and of the xxD line from the Rebel line as intermediate steps. 

I do think that the line between the 60D and the 7D is a little blurrier, and that's the reason the 60D lacks AFMA, for example. 
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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i [CR2]
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2011, 02:33:33 PM »

Meh

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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i [CR2]
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2011, 02:50:53 PM »
I have only one question.. Why, why WHY?
Why do they even need to update the series? Cameras are not old, are not outdated, and it just seems stupid to release a new camera, just because of higher mp count. There's no real improvement. And there's a product for everyone. What do you miss? What kind of camera? Don't tell me, that anyone actually waits impatiently for a new rebel or xxD camera?
The only hole in canon's body lineup might be an affordable FF camera, but even so, 5dII is still selling well.

The Rebels are very capable cameras as anyone reading this site knows.   We know that image quality comes first and we can easily know what are real and worthwhile upgrades.  However, the Rebel line right up the T3i is primarily positioned as a consumer level / entry level DSLR.  The bulk of the purchasers are buying their first DSLR, don't have any investment in lenses, and are comparing to all other brands.  Most consumers don't want to buy "last year's model".  I don't think there's much more than that to the annual refresh.

Meh

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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i [CR2]
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2011, 02:53:04 PM »
Entry-level customers and parents won't typically know anything about ISO performance, dynamic range or diffraction limits. They just know megapixels and want more of them.

Exactly.  Even on this site we all know about ISO, DR, noise, diffraction, etc. and still get into debates about them before Neuro sets us straight.   :P

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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i [CR2]
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2011, 03:04:17 PM »
I wonder what on earth could be improved in the new rebel> I had an XSI, have a family member with a T1i... Big change between the two, bigger still with the T2i... didn't seem to be a lot new with the T3i... What could be advanced on the T4i? An MP count increase would not at all surprise me...
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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i [CR2]
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2011, 03:18:19 PM »
I think the fact that we have not seen a Canon Roadmap in a while is hinting that they are changing marketing strategies and keeping their cards close to their vest.  All indications seem to point to a freeze in the megapixel race in regards to the top level bodies. 

I can't think of a single occasion where we have seen a Canon Roadmap. They're not like Intel, etc, that are manufacturing low level parts that others need significant lead time to design product around.

dilbert

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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i [CR2]
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2011, 03:22:33 PM »
Entry-level customers and parents won't typically know anything about ISO performance, dynamic range or diffraction limits. They just know megapixels and want more of them.

Exactly.  Even on this site we all know about ISO, DR, noise, diffraction, etc. and still get into debates about them before Neuro sets us straight.   :P

I think that even if there was a Neuro in every BestBuy store to "educate" customers that a significant portion of them would still buy the camera with more MP. After all, he'd just be another salesman.

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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i [CR2]
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2011, 03:50:58 PM »
The Rebels are very capable cameras as anyone reading this site knows.   We know that image quality comes first and we can easily know what are real and worthwhile upgrades.  However, the Rebel line right up the T3i is primarily positioned as a consumer level / entry level DSLR.  The bulk of the purchasers are buying their first DSLR, don't have any investment in lenses, and are comparing to all other brands.  Most consumers don't want to buy "last year's model".  I don't think there's much more than that to the annual refresh.

That's a good point and the reason why the next Rebel needs a new sensor with more megapixels. Sony for example is now trying to reach exactly this consumers with pretty a aggressive features/price, since they have no high-end consumers to loose. But to gain new ones that don't care much about the high-ISO IQ.
So Canon has to react and needs at least to increase the MP, even when the 18MP sensor still beats Sony's IQ. MP obviously still sell, otherwise 16MP compacts can't be explained.
I personally would rather appreciate other improvements like weather-sealing or a better AF, but this features are reserved for the higher end canons.

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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i [CR2]
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2011, 03:50:58 PM »

Stone

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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i [CR2]
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2011, 04:45:40 PM »
I think this rumor is very plausible, to the average consumer coming from a P&S, the more MP the better.  Canon almost has to up the MP count just to match specs.  The advertised improvements in jpg noise reduction in the digic V would probably make entry level consumers very happy with the MP increase.

I think the 70D would get the same 24MP sensor, single digic V and the 7D's 19pt af to make the upgrade to an XXD series worth it in the eyes of people looking for a clear upgrade path.  I also think we'll see a more affordable XXD FF camera from Canon in the next year or so

Canon could take the 1Dx approach with the 7D II and make it a real upgrade over the XXD bodies.  They should keep the 18MP sensor and improve the DR & ISO performance to set a new IQ standard for crop bodies.  I certainly would not complain about a 7D II with 18MP, greatly improved DR, 1-2 stops for a clean ISO 6400 & usable ISO 12K, 10 fps and a 30+ pt af system.
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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i [CR2]
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2011, 04:50:43 PM »
Entry-level customers and parents won't typically know anything about ISO performance, dynamic range or diffraction limits. They just know megapixels and want more of them.

Exactly.  Even on this site we all know about ISO, DR, noise, diffraction, etc. and still get into debates about them before Neuro sets us straight.   :P

I think that even if there was a Neuro in every BestBuy store to "educate" customers that a significant portion of them would still buy the camera with more MP. After all, he'd just be another salesman.

+1 Good Point!

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Re: Canon EOS Rebel T4i [CR2]
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2011, 04:50:43 PM »