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A Bit About the 5D Mark III? [CR1]
« on: December 05, 2011, 08:48:33 PM »
It’s been awhile I hadn’t heard much about the 5D Mark III for a while, after the excitement surrounding the 1D X and C300, I can understand why.

The information below comes from various sources on the web and in my inbox.

Specs? Two different pieces of information put the camera above 30mp. I get the idea there is more than one sensor being put through the paces. It will not have a pro AF system. It was suggested by one person that the AF will actually be a lesser version of the 7D autofocus system. The camera would not have a crazy frame per second rating, something in the 3-4fps range like the current 5D Mark II. It will be equipped with the DIGIC 5+ processor and be aimed at high megapixel/high ISO performance. The 5D Mark III will not be the 4K Cinema EOS prototype Canon previously announced was in development. There were no details given about the video functionality of the camera.

Most everyone is saying do not expect an announcement until at least March when the 1D X should be shipping. Announcement dates can always change though. It may depend on what Nikon does with the D800.

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A Bit About the 5D Mark III? [CR1]
« on: December 05, 2011, 08:48:33 PM »

eaw213

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Re: A Bit About the 5D Mark III? [CR1]
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2011, 08:57:14 PM »
"...aimed at high megapixel/high ISOÂ performance."

Seems counterintuitive. That aside, the thought of the AF being less than the 7D is a downer.

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Re: A Bit About the 5D Mark III? [CR1]
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2011, 08:57:43 PM »
I refuse to believe this.

If the rumor about AF is true, then I probably wont buy the 5D3. The biggest reason to why me and many other photographers want to upgrade from 5D2 to 5D3, is becaus we are hoping for dramaticly improved AF.

Surely Canon must understand that they can't put half assed AF in the 5D line AGAIN?

Why should I own pro lenses worth thousands of dollars if my camera cant make them focus properly?



« Last Edit: December 05, 2011, 09:05:47 PM by Ricku »

dr croubie

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Re: A Bit About the 5D Mark III? [CR1]
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2011, 09:04:51 PM »
Given what I've read lately in other posts, about "waiting to see 1DX sales figures" and the mythical 36MP D800 that still is nowhere to be seen, I reckon Canon are sitting on a few prototypes and they haven't actually decided which one to release yet, waiting on sales figures for all of the 1DX, D3X/D4, D800 before they decide which one to release.

Still, this agrees with what i've been thinking. I'm putting 99% probability on:
- no RAW video, xlr inputs, probably not even mic-input gain setting, that's for the cinemaEOS whatever it will be called.
- no video better than C300, full stop. Video as good as 7D/60D, maybe one or two minor features better. Don't expect wonders.
- Either 1DX's 18MP sensor, or a 32MP+ that will shrink to worse-looking images than 1DX at 3200iso and above (in which case it will be called the 2/3/4D and priced $3500-4k)
- 7D-or-worse AF. Don't expect 45pt. Ever. I'm half not even expecting 19pt. Either 15pt as current (but all 15 selectable), or they'll re-use the 7D's 19pt to save R&D costs (but then the points will be very close to the FF centre-of-frame). (maybe even use some rejected 7D-sensors with 4-8 points disabled?). It's not a sports-camera, get used to it.
- 1 digic 5 or 5+, no more than 4fps. It's not a sports-camera, get used to it.
- FF, ungripped, no flash pentaprism, obviously.
- I'd really like to see dual-cf slots, or 1 cf slot. I definitely don't want to see 1cf+1sd, that's a recipe for the death of CF and i'd like my investment to stay valuable.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2011, 09:07:06 PM by dr croubie »
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Re: A Bit About the 5D Mark III? [CR1]
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2011, 09:06:21 PM »
Quote from: Canon Rumors
It will not have a pro AF system. It was suggested by one person that the AF will actually be a lesser version of the 7D autofocus system.

Without 7D level AF as a minimum, a 5DIII looks way behind the competition.
Plenty of 5DII shooters may not see enough for them in the new camera, and be perfectly happy to punt along with the 5DII for another couple of years.

For a lot of us, AF performance is the Achilles heel of the 5DII and the 5D classic before it.

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Re: A Bit About the 5D Mark III? [CR1]
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2011, 09:11:51 PM »
For all you people who want better AF in the 5D3, what do you mean by better?

- More points, no matter how they perform?
- More f/2.8 and cross-type points? (regardless of how much light and how many total points there are)
- Points that work in less light? (regardless of how many there are and what aperture they are sensitive to)

The "better-AF" is probably the most-read debate about the 5D3 besides the "32+MP vs 18MP high-iso" debate.
For anyone who bought the 5D2 upon release (or within a year), was the AF good for you then? Did it only get worse once the 7D came out? If they come out with 19pt AF and then the 7D2 has 27pt AF, will the 5D3 be useless then too?
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Re: A Bit About the 5D Mark III? [CR1]
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2011, 09:12:59 PM »
It is as if they are saying: "If you want good auto focus in your DSLR, you must either go for the 7D crop camera, or for the "super heavy" 7000 dollar 1DX.

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Re: A Bit About the 5D Mark III? [CR1]
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2011, 09:12:59 PM »

Wahoowa

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Re: A Bit About the 5D Mark III? [CR1]
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2011, 09:16:16 PM »
For all you people who want better AF in the 5D3, what do you mean by better?

- More points, no matter how they perform?
- More f/2.8 and cross-type points? (regardless of how much light and how many total points there are)
- Points that work in less light? (regardless of how many there are and what aperture they are sensitive to)

The "better-AF" is probably the most-read debate about the 5D3 besides the "32+MP vs 18MP high-iso" debate.
For anyone who bought the 5D2 upon release (or within a year), was the AF good for you then? Did it only get worse once the 7D came out? If they come out with 19pt AF and then the 7D2 has 27pt AF, will the 5D3 be useless then too?

Well, more cross-type sensors is the first thing. I hate it when I use 5D2 and many times I couldn't use the outside focus points to focus.

I don't mind if it's gonna be less than 19, but I would want a similar focus system in 7D. Otherwise, I will just snag a used 5D2 when the new 5D3 comes out.

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Re: A Bit About the 5D Mark III? [CR1]
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2011, 09:28:23 PM »
"...aimed at high megapixel/high ISOÂ performance."

Seems counterintuitive. That aside, the thought of the AF being less than the 7D is a downer.

I wouldn't say that. As I've mentioned in a previous answer, a 5D III with around 30mp would still be LESS DENSE than the 7D at 18mp. It would take a 46.7mp FF sensor to achieve the same pixel density as the 7D (which, while it doesn't have superb ISO performance, isn't terrible until around 3200). A 30mp sensor would be 16.7mp away from that maximum. Combine that fact with the improved design and readout electronics of the 1DX style sensor, and I don't see a 30mp sensor with better noise characteristics than any current 20mp+ sensor on the market today being "impossible" or even "implausible".
« Last Edit: December 05, 2011, 09:40:32 PM by jrista »

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Re: A Bit About the 5D Mark III? [CR1]
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2011, 09:38:45 PM »
For all you people who want better AF in the 5D3, what do you mean by better?

- More points, no matter how they perform?
- More f/2.8 and cross-type points? (regardless of how much light and how many total points there are)
- Points that work in less light? (regardless of how many there are and what aperture they are sensitive to)

The "better-AF" is probably the most-read debate about the 5D3 besides the "32+MP vs 18MP high-iso" debate.
For anyone who bought the 5D2 upon release (or within a year), was the AF good for you then? Did it only get worse once the 7D came out? If they come out with 19pt AF and then the 7D2 has 27pt AF, will the 5D3 be useless then too?

While I agree the 9-point AF sensor in the 5D II with its single cross-type sensor in the middle (which is, as far as I can tell, the same AF system in all of canon's consumer-grade cameras) is ATROCIOUS for a professional-grade camera, I don't think it needs to be replaced with a super-duper top of the line system either. I don't think anyone can really expect the advanced sports-and-action capable AF system of the 7D. The 7D line is designed for a different purpose than the 5D line, so it doesn't really make sense to me to include an advanced action-tuned AF system in a camera that is more designed for low- or no-action work like landscapes, studio portraits, etc.

I think something similar to the 7D's 19 cross-type system would be useful, and help keep the cost of the camera from reaching $4000. A 19-point AF system with perhaps only 9 cross-type sensors (a cross in the center plus the four outer points) would certainly be an improvement on the existing AF in the 5D II, and should improve focusing for wedding, portrait, and even wildlife/bird photography sufficiently (although I think most serious wildlife/bird photographers would opt for the 7D anyway for the greater reach.)

I certainly don't see much beyond my own intended use for a 5D III, though, which is all nature-oriented (landscapes, macro, still wildlife, astrophotography). I can't really say how much a better AF system might really be needed by other types of photographers who need an affordable full-frame camera.

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Re: A Bit About the 5D Mark III? [CR1]
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2011, 09:53:27 PM »
It is as if they are saying: "If you want good auto focus in your DSLR, you must either go for the 7D crop camera, or for the "super heavy" 7000 dollar 1DX.

That's exactly what Canon has been saying, for years.  Nikon, OTOH, has been putting pro-level AF in semi-pro bodies - but if you want a high resolution sensor (in the current lineup, rumors about a high-MP D800 are still just rumors), you have to get APS-C or an $8000 D3x, while Canon 'gives away' the same 21-MP sensor from the 1DsIII in the 'affordable' 5DII. Different brands, different strategies for internal differentiation. You pays your money and you makes your choice...

This spec rumor sounds very, very logical to me (but maybe too logical, given the 1D X?).
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Re: A Bit About the 5D Mark III? [CR1]
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2011, 09:55:47 PM »
I'd rather see the 5D 3 come in at a higher price point with a proper AF system to compete with the D700, D800 line from nikon, I don't think it will canabilise 1DX sales if frame rate stays at 4FPS that is just fine with me

I really want to see

- Beef up the AF system
- Beef up the weather sealing pro build
- leave the form about the same size (i'm loving the no grip of the 5D2)
- leave 4FPS
- 30MP would be nice but I'd be happy if they just stayed at 21 and improved the sensor tech even further into better ISO territory, Even shooting landscapes 21 if fine for me if i want bigger MP then i shoot panoramas anyway with tighter AoV lenses
- would like a little more customisation option over the controls more like the 1D
- upgrade AEB to at least give us 5 bracket sets
- I would like the battery to stay the same and remain compatable with the 7D line
- Oh and improve the live view, live view histogram would be nice, but at least put a border on the histogram in the screen display so we can see where the edge is :P
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Re: A Bit About the 5D Mark III? [CR1]
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2011, 10:08:02 PM »

That's exactly what Canon has been saying, for years.  Nikon, OTOH, has been putting pro-level AF in semi-pro bodies - but if you want a high resolution sensor (in the current lineup, rumors about a high-MP D800 are still just rumors), you have to get APS-C or an $8000 D3x, while Canon 'gives away' the same 21-MP sensor from the 1DsIII in the 'affordable' 5DII. Different brands, different strategies for internal differentiation. You pays your money and you makes your choice...

This spec rumor sounds very, very logical to me (but maybe too logical, given the 1D X?).

Exactly!  So the price point of the new D800 will be important.  If it too include a high rez sensor (like we all expect) with a pro-level AF (like we all suspect) then this will be a different proposition then their current D700.    The only argument then for Canon to keep their existing AF system in the 5D replacement would be if its price point is very different form the D800 (assuming the 5D is also high rez MP).  If D800 is ~$4000 like previously rumored while a 5d III be priced at say ~$3000, then Canon might get away with it. 

If the prices are similar however, I think Canon will have a harder time against the D800.  So maybe, just maybe, there is room in Canon's lineup for another FF camera with a price point between a 5D III and a 1Dx with pro-level AF...

That said, for now I guess if I want pro-level AF, I will need to buy the 1DX  :o
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Re: A Bit About the 5D Mark III? [CR1]
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2011, 10:08:02 PM »

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Re: A Bit About the 5D Mark III? [CR1]
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2011, 10:09:21 PM »
I'd rather see the 5D 3 come in at a higher price point with a proper AF system to compete with the D700, D800 line from nikon, I don't think it will canabilise 1DX sales if frame rate stays at 4FPS that is just fine with me

I really want to see

- Beef up the AF system
- Beef up the weather sealing pro build
- leave the form about the same size (i'm loving the no grip of the 5D2)
- leave 4FPS
- 30MP would be nice but I'd be happy if they just stayed at 21 and improved the sensor tech even further into better ISO territory, Even shooting landscapes 21 if fine for me if i want bigger MP then i shoot panoramas anyway with tighter AoV lenses
- would like a little more customisation option over the controls more like the 1D
- upgrade AEB to at least give us 5 bracket sets
- I would like the battery to stay the same and remain compatable with the 7D line
- Oh and improve the live view, live view histogram would be nice, but at least put a border on the histogram in the screen display so we can see where the edge is :P

+1, or a new model between a 5D and a 1DX with those features...
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Re: A Bit About the 5D Mark III? [CR1]
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2011, 10:14:37 PM »
That said, for now I guess if I want pro-level AF, I will need to buy the 1DX  :o

Which is exactly I'm waiting for B&H to start taking 1D X pre-orders...
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Re: A Bit About the 5D Mark III? [CR1]
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2011, 10:14:37 PM »