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Author Topic: Canon Germany CashBack - November 1st 2014 to Januar 31st 2015  (Read 29349 times)

AvTvM

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Re: Canon Germany CashBack - November 1st 2014 to Januar 31st 2015
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2014, 08:19:39 AM »
Yes -> Canon's "general/consumer" cashback in summer 2014 [at least for .DE, .AT, .CH] was overall more attractive than the current Winter/Christmas cashback promotion.  :)

Other than that I observe that Canon is trying hard to "nationalize" their 2014 European winter cashback offerings. While porducts incuded are the same evrywhere, cashback amounts and specificsvary to some extend - definitely more than what is warranted and fair due to different VAT rates in different EU countries. 

I doubt this behaviour is fully in line with what is permissible under EU consumer rights protection directives - especially in conjunction with online sales. I may therefore point out these discrepancies and the restrictions based on citizenship/seat of residence Canon sets forth in their country-specific Terms & Conditions related to these cashback promotions to the EU consumer rights authority. Hope that won't lead to Canon not offering any promotions in the EU though.  :o :P

Basically, companies have to offer products to consumers at the same (net) price in all member states. However it is probably going to be tricky whether this includes rebates offered or only "advertised" prices  and "MSRPs".

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Re: Canon Germany CashBack - November 1st 2014 to Januar 31st 2015
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2014, 08:19:39 AM »

Marsu42

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Re: Canon Germany CashBack - November 1st 2014 to Januar 31st 2015
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2014, 08:29:32 AM »
I doubt this behaviour is fully in line with what is permissible under EU consumer rights protection directives - especially in conjunction with online sales.

That's an interesting point, I have though the same thing. But as it seems Canon legal department is aware of that - for example to participate in the DE cashback you just need to order from a .de domain online seller. As far as I understand it, it doesn't matter where you live... but they do exclude non-EU sales like from CH.

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon Germany CashBack - November 1st 2014 to Januar 31st 2015
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2014, 08:39:25 AM »
I doubt this behaviour is fully in line with what is permissible under EU consumer rights protection directives - especially in conjunction with online sales.

Out of curiosity, where did you earn your law degree and how long have you been practicing EU/international trade law?  Or maybe Canon just has incompetent lawyers, or none at all...   :o :P
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Marsu42

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Re: Canon Germany CashBack - November 1st 2014 to Januar 31st 2015
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2014, 08:48:09 AM »
I doubt this behaviour is fully in line with what is permissible under EU consumer rights protection directives - especially in conjunction with online sales.
Out of curiosity, where did you earn your law degree and how long have you been practicing EU/international trade law?  Or maybe Canon just has incompetent lawyers, or none at all...   :o :P

In defense of my our fellow CR participant, ignoring EU law is a common occurrence, esp in the case of large enterprises with armadas of corporate lawyers pushing pencils. There are no ends of trials and penalty fees, including the EU trying to enforce common policy against member countries. In the IT biz, think against "Microsoft vs. the EU".

It's just that in the case of Canon cashback, they have no real interest to try to get around EU law for offering some different promotions - a fight with the EU probably wouldn't be worth the hassle, so of course they comply.

AvTvM

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Re: Canon Germany CashBack - November 1st 2014 to Januar 31st 2015
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2014, 09:42:07 AM »
I doubt this behaviour is fully in line with what is permissible under EU consumer rights protection directives - especially in conjunction with online sales.

Out of curiosity, where did you earn your law degree and how long have you been practicing EU/international trade law?  Or maybe Canon just has incompetent lawyers, or none at all...   :o :P

You might be "surprised" to learn, that not all large companies are in sync with all legal requirements all the time and everywhere they operate  :o ... no matter how many lawyers they employ and retain. :-)

While I hold no law degree, I have already caught and successfully reported more than one large multinational company on practices not in line with EU consumer rights. Practices, T&Cs had to be changed by the companies ... and I got what I wanted at the price offered to other consumers in other EU countries. Which was all I wanted. :-)

Currently I am eyeballing an online purchase of Canon gear in Germany and getting Canon cashback on it. "problem" ... which shoukd not be a problem in a "common market" ... I am not a citizen or resident of Germany but of another EU country.

So, one of the "discrepancies" I alluded to earlier ... is in Canon's current Germany winter cashback promotion:
* Ts&Cs are OK [as far as I can tell :-)] ... stating participation in the cashback program is open to anybody with residence in any EU country [subject to many other conditions related to participating products etc.] - http://www.canon.de/winter-cashback/ (at bottom of page; in german language)

BUT

* on the Canon registration website "GERMANY" is pre-filled and locked for country of residence.  -> https://canon-winter-2014-germany.sales-promotions.com/?country_promotion=4&lng=en   [left column, some way down]

and on the Austrian version of the registration site https://canon-winter-2014-at-cashback.sales-promotions.com/?country_promotion=68&lng=en "AUSTRIA" is locked in and in the Netherlands
"NETHERLANDS" is locked in. https://canon-winter-2014-nl-cashback.sales-promotions.com/?country_promotion=20000080&lng=nl
I have not checked for other EU countries, but since this "feature" is present in 3 countries' registration websites it does not appear to be an "oversight" in one country or by one of Canon's lawyers there. :-)

To me ... it definitely looks like Canon is trying to make it difficult - or impossible [don't know yet] for EU consumers to participate in any cashback prootion offered in any EU country. Since product prices offered by retailers and also cash-back amounts offered by Canon are different on a country-by-country basis it is my suspicion that Canon is trying to keep savvy consumers from buying gear online where it is most cost-effective AFTER cashback. And I do believe this is not in line with EU consumer rights directives and it certainly is not in the spirit of a common market with free movement of product and services. The only differences acceptable would be due to different national VAT (or similar sales) tax rates - if and as applicable depending on seat of retailer and consumer. 

Luckily Canon is providing an email and telephone contact for these promotions. So I will
1. first point out to them, that the country field should in my opinion be unlocked and open in the registration websites.
2. should they refuse to go along with my suggestion, I shall then bring it to the attention of the EU consumer rights authority to look into it. Just answering the likely ensueing request for information will already cause Canon (Europe + external parties involved in administering the cashback promotion) and all of their their lawyers quite a bit of work :-)
3. If necessary I will make my purchase and try to register my claim. If it is denied ... I will have a valid title to lodge a formal complaint.
I sure hope steps 2 and 3 will not be necessary.  ;D

AvTvM

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Re: Canon Germany CashBack - November 1st 2014 to Januar 31st 2015
« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2014, 10:16:33 AM »
UPDATE: just called Canon Germany Support and reported the problem. The rep could "reproduce the problem on their website with GERMANY hardcoded for country of residence", does not understand "why" and promised to escalate the issue for internal clarification. They will get get back to me asap. I'll keep you posted. :-)

btw. support number provided is the general Canon Germany Hotline +49 69 / 29 99 36 80 and not some external PR/Marketing agency.

Maximilian

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Re: Canon Germany CashBack - November 1st 2014 to Januar 31st 2015
« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2014, 11:53:00 AM »
UPDATE: just called Canon Germany Support and reported the problem. The rep could "reproduce the problem on their website with GERMANY hardcoded for country of residence", does not understand "why" and promised to escalate the issue for internal clarification. They will get get back to me asap. I'll keep you posted. :-)

btw. support number provided is the general Canon Germany Hotline +49 69 / 29 99 36 80 and not some external PR/Marketing agency.
Interesting issue.
AvTvM, thanks for doing this and keeping us informed.
sometimes you have to close your eyes to see properly.

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Re: Canon Germany CashBack - November 1st 2014 to Januar 31st 2015
« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2014, 11:53:00 AM »

Marsu42

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Re: Canon Germany CashBack - November 1st 2014 to Januar 31st 2015
« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2014, 12:15:36 PM »
I have not checked for other EU countries, but since this "feature" is present in 3 countries' registration websites it does not appear to be an "oversight" in one country or by one of Canon's lawyers there. :-)

Good catch, thanks! So they really try it, with the safeguard to excuse it as as a minor web coding mistake. Now some might say that's conspiracy theory, but alas, we're on Canon *rumors* here :->

LDS

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Re: Canon Germany CashBack - November 1st 2014 to Januar 31st 2015
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2014, 12:58:41 PM »
Looks like wie have limited choices this time... :/

Don't complain too much... the Italian one (http://www.canon.it/winter-cashback) offers no cameras, - only some lenses and flashes.

AvTvM

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Re: Canon Germany CashBack - November 1st 2014 to Januar 31st 2015
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2014, 01:19:25 PM »
Don't complain too much... the Italian one (http://www.canon.it/winter-cashback) offers no cameras, - only some lenses and flashes.

interesting, Thanks! Lenses and speedlites seem to be sthe same across all EU countries. Cashback amounts do vary in some instances. There are also additional features, that have been set on a national basis - e.g. in Germany you an extra € 50 "bonus" if you purchase 2 (or more) of the participating products. 

Therefore it is even more important that EU consumers can freely choose within the entire EU were they purchase products online and get the the same price and conditions as any resident of that respective EU country will. :-)

On the Italian form "ITALY" is also locked for country, although the form setup is slightly different:
https://canon-winter-2014-it.sales-promotions.com/?country_promotion=16&lng=it

and "UK" on the UK form
https://canon-winter-2014-uk.sales-promotions.com/?country_promotion=2&lng=en

so it is definitely not a "bug" or an "oversight" ... but a Canon "decision". 

Grummbeerbauer

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Re: Canon Germany CashBack - November 1st 2014 to Januar 31st 2015
« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2014, 02:43:27 AM »
For me, it is actually good that the 70-200 2.8 IS II is not on the list ...
Be careful not to get too close to any of them. They are really sticky ;)
But as you already have the F4 you are very well equiped.
Seems I am not off the hook yet... I just noticed that there is a 300€ cashback if you get a 70-200 2.8 IS II together with the 7D Mk.II... while the verdict on that camera isn't really out for me (waiting for reviews of some more renowned sources), that might make a tempting combination. But even with cashback, that combo ends up well north of 3000€. :-\
Another option would be to get the 15-85 alongside the 7DII - on my last vacation where I had mainly been using the 17-55 2.8 in best lighting (Mediterranean summer sun) were the f2.8 wasn't needed, I always thought that something that goes a little wider and offers a tad more reach might suit that use case much better.
But since only a long tele zoom would be a really an extension of my photographic possibilites, I might be able to keep my GAS in check.  ;)

AvTvM

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Re: Canon Germany CashBack - November 1st 2014 to Januar 31st 2015
« Reply #26 on: November 10, 2014, 08:41:42 AM »
Canon has just informed me they "unlocked" the country field on the German registration form:
https://canon-winter-2014-germany.sales-promotions.com/?country_promotion=4&lng=de

UK and other EU country registration forms for Winter/Christmas Cashback 2014 are still locked to the repective country however. https://canon-winter-2014-uk.sales-promotions.com/?country_promotion=2&lng=en

I'll get back to them and suggest, they unlock ALL of their EU country registration forms. So we get what is our right as consumers: non discriminatory access to goods and prices across the entire common market = in all EU countries. As resident in any Eu country you may then purchase items wherever you get the best price for them - after cash-back is applied. Obviously you'll have to look at the whole picture: price in (online) shop, cash-back  conditions for the repsective country and product, shipping cost, taxation differences [VAT].

Maximilian

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Re: Canon Germany CashBack - November 1st 2014 to Januar 31st 2015
« Reply #27 on: November 10, 2014, 08:48:43 AM »
... our right as consumers: non discriminatory access to goods and prices across the entire common market = in all EU countries.
AvTvM, thanks again for the update and also for your effords.
sometimes you have to close your eyes to see properly.

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Re: Canon Germany CashBack - November 1st 2014 to Januar 31st 2015
« Reply #27 on: November 10, 2014, 08:48:43 AM »

AvTvM

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Re: Canon Germany CashBack - November 1st 2014 to Januar 31st 2015
« Reply #28 on: November 10, 2014, 09:47:13 AM »
AvTvM, thanks again for the update and also for your effords.

you're welcome. To me, it is a matter of principle. Don't want to get too political ... but don't see why multinational corporations should reap all benefits of globalization for themselves while denying them to their paying customers. :-)

If I hear more from Canon on this subject, I'll post it.

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Re: Canon Germany CashBack - November 1st 2014 to Januar 31st 2015
« Reply #28 on: November 10, 2014, 09:47:13 AM »