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Author Topic: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D  (Read 49391 times)

jrista

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Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #135 on: December 10, 2011, 12:05:08 AM »
(The hyperbole amazes me. Didn't anyone ever shoot film? The noise differences between DSLRs are split hairs compared to digital vs. 35mm, or the differences between the various emulsions.)

Doesn't seem so. ;) But be careful what you say...you might spark off the next great debate: Film Grain vs. Digital Noise! Oh My! :o
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Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #135 on: December 10, 2011, 12:05:08 AM »

dtaylor

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Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #136 on: December 10, 2011, 12:12:18 AM »
If you have to "edit" and "work" your "way around" and as some other users listed how to "work around" what 7D puts out... and what is "acceptable" and what can be "expected" from 7D image quality and all the rest of the litany of excuses ...then we concur this is not the image quality that's enviable.

When I've worked on 5D2 files alongside 7D files the workflow has been nearly identical except for different inputs, i.e. I sharpen both but the values are different in the dialog. I'm more likely to do a NR pass on a 7D file then on a 5D2 file, but that's only one extra step, and only sometimes. (Sometimes the 7D file doesn't need it; sometimes the 5D2 file needs it as well.) Not exactly a major work around.

One of my most recent "lucky to live in this age of photography" moments was printing a 16x20" informal portrait of a relative's baby made with my 7D at ISO 800. If I had seen that print 10 years ago I would have guessed that it had been made with MF and portrait film with an ISO no higher than 160. I would have never believed it came from 35mm much less APS-C. My 20-24" landscape prints can stand next to landscape prints from 6x7. At larger sizes 6x7 will show its advantage, but not through 24".

This image quality is not enviable? Really?

Quote
A picture is worth a 1000 words they say, and if you need these many words from 7D camp to prop up and "explain" the merits of the pictures 7D generates, it is high irony indeed ;)

The only explanation anyone has offered is "duh...scale the images for comparison to the same size."

awinphoto

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Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #137 on: December 10, 2011, 01:23:50 AM »
What it all boils down to is the 7d is a tool.. a very good tool... it's not a 5d2, never was intended to be a 5d2 nor marketed at such... it is a great camera for when you need that speed and responsiveness... There will never be that "perfect" camera... unless you have the top of the line hassy MF camera with carl ziess lenses and top of the line digital back, but then again, no AF... Or you could have the 1d series camera but oh wait, you cant get it past security without press credentials... The 7d is not the perfect camera, but i'm not making excuses or trying to make it out for something that it is not... If i'm out in the field and know i'm going to do cityscape or still life subjects or products, then by all means I'll grab my 5d2... If i'm out and about need speed, accuracy, and cant afford to miss the shot... the 7d gets used... heck i've used the 7d as my main workhorse for a while... It is what it is... Like we always suggest to those who question Nikon vs Canon, we always say it's a personal preference... test out the cameras, hold them, feel them, shoot them, find one that becomes an extension of them... Just like this, the 7d is a personal preference once again.. It's not for everyone but those who love it and can get those most of those files will get great shots...  Once you make up your mind that you hate something, you will always be jaded and see through those glasses... Find that camera that suits you perfectly and enjoy your days shooting.   :)
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Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #138 on: December 10, 2011, 02:24:17 AM »
The "extremist" on both sides are wrong.

I owned a 7D for 18 months and recently upgraded to the 1DmkIV, so I can also speak from experience.

Was I happy with low noise iso perf?  No, I wasn't "happy" about it. 

But there is a simple solution people, two words: topaz denoise.  Boom.  Seeing is believing.  If your picture is THAT important, then spend ~1 min running it through a good denoise filter.

And everyone understands that shooting sports and wildlife with a 10mm lens is about as dumb as shooting a wedding with a 600mm f4 lens.  And if you use the 18-200 lens, don't expect as good of IQ as a 24mm prime or a 70-200 f2.8, but 1 lens instead of 10 has its advantages too.  Concepts to learn: tradeoffs and the difference between specialized and general purpose.

So, use your 7D for action & wildlife for the vastly superior AF and frame rate and use your 5DmkII for portraits and landscapes.  Got even more money?  Buy the 1DX (or 1DmkIV) and use it for both.  Got less money?  Then pick a body that handles the majority of your work and don't flame the one you didn't get.

But don't complain about the 7D not being good at landscapes or portraits.  Its not AS GOOD as a 5DmkII, but its not BAD either. 

Want my recommendation?  If I had only 1 body under $3k and I didn't shoot exclusively portraits and or landscapes, I would take the 7D in a heartbeat.  Why?  Because if you want to shoot anything where your subject is moving (which occurs often on Earth) then the 7D is way better than the 5DmkII and the 7D can shoot subjects that don't move too.  But if you are a "landscape photographer" then get a 5DmkII and don't complain about the 7D.

fin

briansquibb

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Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #139 on: December 10, 2011, 06:11:47 AM »

But don't complain about the 7D not being good at landscapes or portraits.  Its not AS GOOD as a 5DmkII, but its not BAD either. 


Don't complain about the 7D not being good at landscapes or portraits.  Its not AS GOOD as a 5DmkII, but its not BAD either. 

also

Don't complain about the 5DII not being good at sport.  Its not AS GOOD as a 7D, but its not BAD either. 

Just choose whatever best meets your requirements but dont complain if you make the wrong choice.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2011, 06:13:19 AM by briansquibb »

KeithR

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Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #140 on: December 10, 2011, 06:57:09 AM »
A picture is worth a 1000 words they say, and if you need these many words from 7D camp to prop up and "explain" the merits of the pictures 7D generates, it is high irony indeed
What an infantile argument...

If you want examples of what the 7D is easily capable of - without any tugging and puling in PP, just a well-sorted conversion/pp routine (and one which I've been essentially using since my 30D days) - have a browse around my site:

www.capture-the-moment.co.uk

I don't need "so many words" to "prop up" the 7D, I just know how to use it - and the images speak for themselves, don't they?

And yes, they look great printed large, on the odd occasion when I do so.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2011, 07:04:12 AM by KeithR »

infared

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Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #141 on: December 10, 2011, 07:44:36 AM »
This whole ten pages of discussion is just a bunch of silliness.  ....but I guess just anybody can start a thread.
My question is ...why did anyone even respond to Friedmud,(perfect)...in the first place???
« Last Edit: December 10, 2011, 07:51:24 AM by infared »
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Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #141 on: December 10, 2011, 07:44:36 AM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #142 on: December 10, 2011, 08:31:32 AM »
One of my most recent "lucky to live in this age of photography" moments was printing a 16x20" informal portrait of a relative's baby made with my 7D at ISO 800. If I had seen that print 10 years ago I would have guessed that it had been made with MF and portrait film with an ISO no higher than 160. I would have never believed it came from 35mm much less APS-C. My 20-24" landscape prints can stand next to landscape prints from 6x7. At larger sizes 6x7 will show its advantage, but not through 24".

This image quality is not enviable? Really?

It's all relative, though. We're not comparing today's camera with one from 10 years ago or 25 years ago.  I bought my first Mac 25 years ago, and paid hundreds extra for the optional internal HDD. At the time, 20 MB was 'huge'.  Today, one RAW file from my 5DII is bigger. Technology moves fast, and that impacts photography.

@OP, sorry you got stuck. Newegg's 7D listing states, "Return Policy: Limited Replacement Only Return Policy." So, if you think you got a lemon you can exchange it. Else, you're likely looking at a 20-25% loss to sell it used. Or you could play Santa and give someone a really nice gift...
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clank72

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Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #143 on: December 15, 2011, 12:00:09 AM »
Here are some landscape photos taken with this "unacceptable" camera. 

http://500px.com/alwaysbj182

That I can't do this with my 7D, or that you can't do this with yours, is not the fault of the camera.


These don't impress me. Anyone can take a good shot and size it down to 600px 72dpi and sharpen the crap out of it- to "fake it". There is no proof in these photos and I've seen comparable shots from much lesser cameras. Anyway...

Know-one wants to talk trash about where they live, or think something is wrong with an item they own and paid big bucks for. Same with a new car.

There are WAY too many 7D users complaining about the noise. There are literly thousands of posts online about it. The grain does not compliment your work. Some users suck it up and some are a bunch of anal sons of bitches (like Me) that only demand the absolute best image quality. And they expect it from a brand like Canon and they are not getting it.

Regarding the 7D vs 50D vs 5D test:

Grain can give the "illusion" that the image is sharper. Especially around edges of objects. When post-sharpening is applied the grain is enhanced even more. Grain takes away detail and the ability to sharpen what is actually in the photo. How do you sharpen the subject without sharpening the noise too? Easy, just resize it down to 1000 pixels and then sharpen. Give me a break.

Bottom line, viewing the 7D at 100% is SAND PAPER. Always has been, always will be. It's not you, it's the camera. Sell it and buy a 5D or 1D. Read reviews online, look at the comparisons. The proof is in the pudding.

But yeah, in the end it's just a tool.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2011, 12:08:01 AM by clank72 »

Hillsilly

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Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #144 on: December 15, 2011, 12:59:21 AM »
Here are some landscape photos taken with this "unacceptable" camera. 

http://500px.com/alwaysbj182

That I can't do this with my 7D, or that you can't do this with yours, is not the fault of the camera.


I'm impressed.
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whatta

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Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #145 on: December 15, 2011, 03:37:23 AM »
Here are some landscape photos taken with this "unacceptable" camera. 

http://500px.com/alwaysbj182

That I can't do this with my 7D, or that you can't do this with yours, is not the fault of the camera.


I'm impressed.

me too, but I wonder how much postprocessing..
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KeithR

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Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #146 on: December 15, 2011, 07:36:31 AM »
Bottom line, viewing the 7D at 100% is SAND PAPER. Always has been, always will be. It's not you, it's the camera. Sell it and buy a 5D or 1D. Read reviews online, look at the comparisons. The proof is in the pudding.
Which proves two things:

one, that you don't have a clue about how to get the best out of the camera - mine's not "sandpaper" at 100% view; and

two, you're a muppet for worrying about how it looks at 100% anyway.

markIVantony

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Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #147 on: December 15, 2011, 07:57:45 AM »
...
There are WAY too many 7D users complaining about the noise. There are literly thousands of posts online about it.
...

If this is true, wouldn't it support the idea that you and friedmud would know about the noise before purchasing the 7D?

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Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #147 on: December 15, 2011, 07:57:45 AM »

sawsedge

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Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #148 on: December 15, 2011, 09:29:23 AM »
In another thread, the OP, Friedmud, indicates he is making friends with his 7D, learning his way around it.

I've seen too many great images from the 7D to believe the camera has a problem.  Lemons can exist, but most problems are user error.   The 50D went through this sort of nonsense too. 

Years ago I read a quote from George Lepp, which I will paraphrase: "all it takes is one good image to know who or what is at fault."  Yep.

clank72

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Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #149 on: December 15, 2011, 01:32:15 PM »
...
There are WAY too many 7D users complaining about the noise. There are literly thousands of posts online about it.
...


If this is true, wouldn't it support the idea that you and friedmud would know about the noise before purchasing the 7D?


I bought one a year ago.

Like others, we saw the Youtube films shot with the 7D, saw the resized pics online, figured we were good to go. The problem was unexpected. This takes "Doing your research before you buy" to a whole new level my myself and others.

As for "How you use the camera determines...".

DSLR's do not have a noise setting (besides ND). There is no way to control the noise. You can't turn it off or on. You can't select the type of noise you want. There is no control over it. Your shots have noise that is "Burned in". Even with the right light, right place, right time, regardless. The solution is to grab the NR tool in Lightroom and live with it. Or, upgrade to a 5D to have less noise, and soak up your loss.


Nikon wins in the noise area but I probably won't be switching soon

http://www.prophotohome.com/news/2010/01/23/high-iso-comparison-canon-1d-mark-iv-nikon-d3s-canon-7d-nikon-d300s/

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Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #149 on: December 15, 2011, 01:32:15 PM »