July 29, 2014, 12:12:27 AM

Author Topic: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D  (Read 52552 times)

briansquibb

  • Guest
Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #195 on: December 19, 2011, 01:18:00 PM »
I brought my 5d2 with me this weekend to take pics of my kids with santa and playing around on train rides and a "fun center" style thing...  I think I should start a new thread called Earthshatteringly Disappointed with 5d Mark II...  Holy crap the AF focus was horrendous even in so so light... my lord... granted when the camera did nail focus it was magical what it could do, but you almost needed to fire a few off focus shots to get the in-focus goodie... I think i'll keep the 7D strictly for everyday shots and 5d for studio... holy crap.

<sarcasm>It must be operator error.  Briansquib shoots motorsports with his 5DII and the AF performs flawlessly, tracking fast-moving carts around curves, even moving toward and and away from the camera.  If you can't even shoot a running kid, don't blame the camera.</sarcasm>

Yes, I know from experience that the 5DII's AF is pretty bad with anything moving.  That's the main reason I plan to get a 1D X as soon as they're available.

<insult>  removed  <insult>

Just because you cant run 100m in <11 sec doesn't mean no one else can
« Last Edit: December 19, 2011, 09:37:35 PM by bvukich »

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #195 on: December 19, 2011, 01:18:00 PM »

briansquibb

  • Guest
Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #196 on: December 19, 2011, 01:29:45 PM »
xxxx shoots motorsports with his 5DII....Yes, I know from experience that the 5DII's AF is pretty bad with anything moving.  That's the main reason I plan to get a 1D X as soon as they're available.

Kids are particularly difficult.  Even though moving cars are faster, they're predictable and have nice straight lines to focus on.  Moving kids, on the other hand, are little more than blur to begin with: not much to lock focus on.  :P

+1 - motorsports are totally predictable and straight forward to take pictures of - that is why it is easy (with the right technique) to get sharp images at 1/50.

awinphoto

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1968
    • View Profile
    • AW Photography
Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #197 on: December 19, 2011, 01:32:09 PM »
It's weird, not to get off track on the 7d, but I get and see that the 5d2 gives nice files and compared to the 7D, it gives me a little bit more leadway in files just because of the crop/ff, and the 5d2 has better ISO preformance which i see why many wedding pros want to use the 5d2, but i also dramatically see why the same wedding pros complain about the focus... If this camera in a bright enough lit indoor facility fits and such gives the 5d2, and the outside points are a mere crapshoot whether they will nail focus and the center point and recomposing is your best bet, and that's assuming your subject matter isn't moving... I would be bankrupt by now if i depended on the 5d2 and weddings to get me by... I'm sure things will get better more I play with it and such but I also can see why these pro's shoot 500-1000 shots per weddings... an odds game... out of those a few hundred HAS to be in focus and or usable... Orangutan has a point about predictability and panning... With kids and even some adults, sudden movements and not being able to shoot fast shutter speeds are crucial with this camera.. I think for less critical work (family and such) the 7d is a better choice where if i get controlled environments and can let the 5d2 shine, then it will be a great tool...

***Santa, all I want for christmas is a 5d3!

****brian... The 5d2 focus has been as documented as peoples gripes about the 7d image... Some people can make it work for their style and some cant...  Motor sports are easy for some and hard for others...  glad you're getting the results you and your client needs.. while others adapt and or wait patiently..
« Last Edit: December 19, 2011, 01:34:02 PM by awinphoto »
Canon 5d III, Canon 24-105L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 F4L, Canon 100L 2.8, 430EX 2's and a lot of bumps along the road to get to where I am.

briansquibb

  • Guest
Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #198 on: December 19, 2011, 01:37:47 PM »
I have posted several pictures to back this up - however it is hard work to get it right - which is why I bought a 1D4 to give me better fps and AF than my 7D and better low light images than the 5D2. After the 5DII I was disappointed with the quality of the images and the bokeh that the APS-C 7D gives

The 5D2 and 1D4 are getting used about 40/60 at the moment, with the 7Ds in the draw unused.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2011, 01:40:30 PM by briansquibb »

wombat780

  • Guest
Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #199 on: December 19, 2011, 01:48:29 PM »
Geez...these negative posts about the 5DMKII's AF with kids has me worried.  I currently have an unopened 5DMKII w/ 25-105L F4 kit lens (great price), 70-200L F4 IS, and the 85 1.8 waiting for Christmas.  This would be my first DSLR.  My current SLR is a film Nikon N90s from the mid-1990s, but it hasn't gotten much use lately as I just don't have time for film anymore.  I have never had a problem with its ancient AF.

My main purpose is just to get really high quality pictures of my 2 and 3 year old kids, family, dog, travel, etc. and to use for just general subjects.  I had, perhaps nievely assumed that, while not state of the art, the AF in the 5DMKII could cope with that, at least if used with the center point only and AF expansion.  For me, image quality is paramount (I admit I am a pixel peeper and do essentially all viewing on-screen).  I wanted FF from so that I could start building up a collection of lenses for the long-haul.  I will be very disappointed if with this camera and these lenses I cannot get any in-focus shots of my kids when I can do so with any old P&S or even an iPhone.

Am I making a mistake with the 5DMKII?  I guess the only alternative would be to either pick up a D700 (though I really hate the idea of spending $1k more on a camera due to be replaced even sooner than the 5D), or wait for the 5DMKIII/D800 (both of which will probably blow out my price range).  All very discouraging.  Anyhow, thanks for your thoughts.

awinphoto

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1968
    • View Profile
    • AW Photography
Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #200 on: December 19, 2011, 02:07:08 PM »
Geez...these negative posts about the 5DMKII's AF with kids has me worried.  I currently have an unopened 5DMKII w/ 25-105L F4 kit lens (great price), 70-200L F4 IS, and the 85 1.8 waiting for Christmas.  This would be my first DSLR.  My current SLR is a film Nikon N90s from the mid-1990s, but it hasn't gotten much use lately as I just don't have time for film anymore.  I have never had a problem with its ancient AF.

My main purpose is just to get really high quality pictures of my 2 and 3 year old kids, family, dog, travel, etc. and to use for just general subjects.  I had, perhaps nievely assumed that, while not state of the art, the AF in the 5DMKII could cope with that, at least if used with the center point only and AF expansion.  For me, image quality is paramount (I admit I am a pixel peeper and do essentially all viewing on-screen).  I wanted FF from so that I could start building up a collection of lenses for the long-haul.  I will be very disappointed if with this camera and these lenses I cannot get any in-focus shots of my kids when I can do so with any old P&S or even an iPhone.

Am I making a mistake with the 5DMKII?  I guess the only alternative would be to either pick up a D700 (though I really hate the idea of spending $1k more on a camera due to be replaced even sooner than the 5D), or wait for the 5DMKIII/D800 (both of which will probably blow out my price range).  All very discouraging.  Anyhow, thanks for your thoughts.

I would say you have a great system awaiting you... All cameras have their quirks... the 7D has great AF and ok image quality, but the 5d2 has so so AF and great mage quality... the 1d series you need to rob a bank to acquire and shoot tripod/monopod if shooting for prolonged time due to weight... Coming from a 7d, the 5d2 leaves me wanting/expecting more (especially since i shoot professionally) but from another person with a different set of expectations and needs, it may be more than enough to get what you need... I'd definitely give it a good test run and an open mind and see if you're blown away or not...
Canon 5d III, Canon 24-105L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 F4L, Canon 100L 2.8, 430EX 2's and a lot of bumps along the road to get to where I am.

briansquibb

  • Guest
Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #201 on: December 19, 2011, 02:13:45 PM »
Geez...these negative posts about the 5DMKII's AF with kids has me worried.  I currently have an unopened 5DMKII w/ 25-105L F4 kit lens (great price), 70-200L F4 IS, and the 85 1.8 waiting for Christmas.  This would be my first DSLR.  My current SLR is a film Nikon N90s from the mid-1990s, but it hasn't gotten much use lately as I just don't have time for film anymore.  I have never had a problem with its ancient AF.



It seems that old school shooter have much less problem with the AF on the 5DII.

For portraits and when they are not running at 100mph, the AF on the 5DII is more than up to it providing:

- the light is decent
- you use the center point for AF
- use SERVO rather than One Shot

Just for the doubters - here is a panned train on a 5D at 1/25, f11, iso50

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #201 on: December 19, 2011, 02:13:45 PM »

awinphoto

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1968
    • View Profile
    • AW Photography
Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #202 on: December 19, 2011, 02:28:08 PM »
Geez...these negative posts about the 5DMKII's AF with kids has me worried.  I currently have an unopened 5DMKII w/ 25-105L F4 kit lens (great price), 70-200L F4 IS, and the 85 1.8 waiting for Christmas.  This would be my first DSLR.  My current SLR is a film Nikon N90s from the mid-1990s, but it hasn't gotten much use lately as I just don't have time for film anymore.  I have never had a problem with its ancient AF.



It seems that old school shooter have much less problem with the AF on the 5DII.

For portraits and when they are not running at 100mph, the AF on the 5DII is more than up to it providing:

- the light is decent
- you use the center point for AF
- use SERVO rather than One Shot

Just for the doubters - here is a panned train on a 5D at 1/25, f11, iso50

brian, no one is doubting the 5d's ability during panning and a portrait setting with subjects posing, etc... (even though you have to use the center point and recompose I think is BS, but to each their own)... but in moving situations, unpredictable situations, kids, even like kids on a merry go round where not only is the positioning changing but depth of field within the scene depending how deep they are within thing... stuff like that can be a bit challenging for this camera... Scenes like that you can always use center point but given how quick everything is, you get in a habit of keeping your subject centralized which takes away from the ability to compose... stuff like that the 7d would have a field day with... The perfect camera in my humble opinion would be the 5d2 image and sensor, 7D or 1d AF, and keep the puppy at the current price point.  =)
Canon 5d III, Canon 24-105L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 F4L, Canon 100L 2.8, 430EX 2's and a lot of bumps along the road to get to where I am.

neuroanatomist

  • CR GEEK
  • ********
  • Posts: 13594
    • View Profile
Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #203 on: December 19, 2011, 02:41:33 PM »
<sarcasm>It must be operator error.  Briansquib shoots motorsports with his 5DII and the AF performs flawlessly, tracking fast-moving carts around curves, even moving toward and and away from the camera.  If you can't even shoot a running kid, don't blame the camera.</sarcasm>

Yes, I know from experience that the 5DII's AF is pretty bad with anything moving.  That's the main reason I plan to get a 1D X as soon as they're available.


<insult> removed <insult>

Just because you cant run 100m in <11 sec doesn't mean no one else can


Thanks for the kind insult.  The <sarcasm> was not directed at you, but rather at awinphoto - I wanted to be absolutely clear that I was not insulting his technique or skill, in the case of shooting kids playing.  As Orangutan correctly stated, that's a challenging situation for AF, and IMO the 5DII is quite bad at it, relative to the 7D for example. 

I've certainly acknowledged that your photos of moving subjects with the 5DII are excellent, but I still don't believe that they're relvant or proving your points - the panning shot of the train being a great example of the fact that it's not the camera responsible for keeping the subject in focus, it's the skill of the photographer.  You are following the train, that's what panning means.  Furthermore, it's at a distance and at f/11 - your AF could have been off by many yards and the subject would still be in focus.  The 5DII's AF isn't doing the job.  Like several of the go cart examples, they highlight your ample skill, but do not convincingly demonstrate the capability (or lack thereof) of the 5DII's AF system. 

The simple fact is that if I put a fast-focusing lens like the 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II on the 5DII, put it in AI Servo, set it to f/2.8 and put the center AF point over one of my kids running around the yard and start tracking and shooting, my keeper rate is pretty low.  If I put the same lens on the 7D in AI Servo, the keeper rate is close to 100%, despite taking 2x as many shots with the faster frame rate.

Just for the doubters - here is a panned train on a 5D at 1/25, f11, iso50


So, this thread is about how the IQ of the 7D is bad at low ISO.  Just for the doubters, here is an ISO 100 shot from the 7D:



Now, does that show that the 7D has no noise at low ISO?  Sure, it does - just about as convincingly as your panning shots demonstrate the effectiveness of the 5DII's AF.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2011, 09:36:43 PM by bvukich »
EOS 1D X, EOS M, and lots of lenses
______________________________
Flickr | TDP Profile/Gear List

briansquibb

  • Guest
Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #204 on: December 19, 2011, 02:48:00 PM »


brian, no one is doubting the 5d's ability during panning and a portrait setting with subjects posing, etc... (even though you have to use the center point and recompose I think is BS, but to each their own)... but in moving situations, unpredictable situations, kids, even like kids on a merry go round where not only is the positioning changing but depth of field within the scene depending how deep they are within thing... stuff like that can be a bit challenging for this camera... Scenes like that you can always use center point but given how quick everything is, you get in a habit of keeping your subject centralized which takes away from the ability to compose... stuff like that the 7d would have a field day with... The perfect camera in my humble opinion would be the 5d2 image and sensor, 7D or 1d AF, and keep the puppy at the current price point.  =)

I regret buying my 7Ds as, yes I got more in focus than the 5DII but each 5DII image that is in focus is far better than those from the 7D - especially the bokeh from the 7D which is horrible in comparison.

The one beauty about the 5DII is that you can use the centre point for focus then crop to get the AF point off centre and still have a better IQ than any 7D will give.


briansquibb

  • Guest
Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #205 on: December 19, 2011, 03:00:23 PM »

Back to this 7D issue. It is clear that the 7D for most people does not show significant noise at 100-200 - certainly not on my 2 7Ds either, I checked.




So, this thread is about how the IQ of the 7D is bad at low ISO.  Just for the doubters, here is an ISO 100 shot from the 7D:



Now, does that show that the 7D has no noise at low ISO?  Sure, it does - just about as convincingly as your panning shots demonstrate the effectiveness of the 5DII's AF.


So has the OP got camera or operator error?
« Last Edit: December 19, 2011, 03:02:15 PM by briansquibb »

awinphoto

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1968
    • View Profile
    • AW Photography
Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #206 on: December 19, 2011, 03:16:21 PM »


brian, no one is doubting the 5d's ability during panning and a portrait setting with subjects posing, etc... (even though you have to use the center point and recompose I think is BS, but to each their own)... but in moving situations, unpredictable situations, kids, even like kids on a merry go round where not only is the positioning changing but depth of field within the scene depending how deep they are within thing... stuff like that can be a bit challenging for this camera... Scenes like that you can always use center point but given how quick everything is, you get in a habit of keeping your subject centralized which takes away from the ability to compose... stuff like that the 7d would have a field day with... The perfect camera in my humble opinion would be the 5d2 image and sensor, 7D or 1d AF, and keep the puppy at the current price point.  =)

I regret buying my 7Ds as, yes I got more in focus than the 5DII but each 5DII image that is in focus is far better than those from the 7D - especially the bokeh from the 7D which is horrible in comparison.

The one beauty about the 5DII is that you can use the centre point for focus then crop to get the AF point off centre and still have a better IQ than any 7D will give.

To each their own... your ability to crop is probably as easy/quick for me to run a batch noise filter and get the same IQ as the 5d, and heck... I'd have 3-4 In Focus shots to choose from to the 5d2's 1 shot to chose from...  Dont get me wrong, I like the possibilities of the 5d2 and see it's potential and place in my line up and heck, if the 5d3 comes out to be my dream camera, both my cameras could go up for sale to buy the new camera and maybe lenses... Both the 7D and 5d2 are fine cameras in their own right and strengths... and to your question for neuro regarding the OP, I thought we all concluded the image had a bit of both operator and camera problems with the image being a tad under for the original photos but also inherit noise that would not be printable. 
« Last Edit: December 19, 2011, 03:18:17 PM by awinphoto »
Canon 5d III, Canon 24-105L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 F4L, Canon 100L 2.8, 430EX 2's and a lot of bumps along the road to get to where I am.

EYEONE

  • 6D
  • *****
  • Posts: 623
    • View Profile
Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #207 on: December 19, 2011, 03:18:12 PM »
especially the bokeh from the 7D which is horrible in comparison.



 :o

Canon 5D Mark III w/BG-E11, Canon 7D w/BG-E7: EF 24-70mm f.2.8L, EF 70-200mm f2.8L IS II, EF 40mm f2.8 Pancake STM, Speedlite 430EXII + 430EXI, Canon EOS 3

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #207 on: December 19, 2011, 03:18:12 PM »

briansquibb

  • Guest
Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #208 on: December 19, 2011, 03:22:48 PM »
To each their own... your ability to crop is probably as easy/quick for me to run a batch noise filter and get the same IQ as the 5d, and heck... I'd have 3-4 In Focus shots to choose from to the 5d2's 1 shot to chose from... 

You will still have the issue of the fast lens and the poor bokeh. It is not just the noise - it is the issue of ff vs crop - and the IQ will still not be as good.

Remember I have both and have tried everything to get the 7D as good as the 5DII - and now the 7Ds are in the draw waiting to be sold

awinphoto

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1968
    • View Profile
    • AW Photography
Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #209 on: December 19, 2011, 03:36:12 PM »
To each their own... your ability to crop is probably as easy/quick for me to run a batch noise filter and get the same IQ as the 5d, and heck... I'd have 3-4 In Focus shots to choose from to the 5d2's 1 shot to chose from... 

You will still have the issue of the fast lens and the poor bokeh. It is not just the noise - it is the issue of ff vs crop - and the IQ will still not be as good.

Remember I have both and have tried everything to get the 7D as good as the 5DII - and now the 7Ds are in the draw waiting to be sold

I have both also... right now i'm on the verge on giving up on the 5d2 for anything but studio and controlled environments... I've never had an issue with bokeh... Just isn't something that I shoot a lot of and it's not where I make my money professionally so I shoot what makes me money...  That's your personal preference but it doesn't mean the 7d is a bad camera, it's just not for you. 
Canon 5d III, Canon 24-105L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 F4L, Canon 100L 2.8, 430EX 2's and a lot of bumps along the road to get to where I am.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #209 on: December 19, 2011, 03:36:12 PM »