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Author Topic: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D  (Read 53496 times)

neuroanatomist

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Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #210 on: December 19, 2011, 03:38:04 PM »
especially the bokeh from the 7D which is horrible in comparison.

:o

Yeah, I was curoius about that too.  I don't see how that can be the case.  Certainly for the same framing and aperture, the 7D will have less OOF blur - but bokeh is the quality of that blur, and I had thought that was a property of the lens for the most part.  The one area in which sensor size might play a role in bokeh is the 'cat's-eye' shapes of OOF highlights, which result from optical vignetting - but in that case, the crop sensor would be better than FF (assuming we're comparing the same lens, but that's the only possible relevant comparison for bokeh), since the smaller sensor reduces vignetting.
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Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #210 on: December 19, 2011, 03:38:04 PM »

JR

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Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #211 on: December 19, 2011, 04:20:21 PM »
The simple fact is that if I put a fast-focusing lens like the 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II on the 5DII, put it in AI Servo, set it to f/2.8 and put the center AF point over one of my kids running around the yard and start tracking and shooting, my keeper rate is pretty low.  If I put the same lens on the 7D in AI Servo, the keeper rate is close to 100%, despite taking 2x as many shots with the faster frame rate.

I was going to get a 7D for that very reason...that was until the 1DX was announced so I will wait for it but shooting my little daughter on the move even using servo AF with my 5D mkII is such a pain!  In the same setup you describe above, my keep rate with my 5D mkII is almost zero!  So I just gave up  ???
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neuroanatomist

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Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #212 on: December 19, 2011, 04:31:00 PM »
I was going to get a 7D for that very reason...that was until the 1DX was announced so I will wait for it but shooting my little daughter on the move even using servo AF with my 5D mkII is such a pain!  In the same setup you describe above, my keep rate with my 5D mkII is almost zero!  So I just gave up  ???

Just shoot at f/11 - it will seem like the AF is doing a good job.  Don't mind that the background is in crisp focus, too.   :P
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awinphoto

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Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #213 on: December 19, 2011, 04:33:35 PM »
I was going to get a 7D for that very reason...that was until the 1DX was announced so I will wait for it but shooting my little daughter on the move even using servo AF with my 5D mkII is such a pain!  In the same setup you describe above, my keep rate with my 5D mkII is almost zero!  So I just gave up  ???

Just shoot at f/11 - it will seem like the AF is doing a good job.  Don't mind that the background is in crisp focus, too.   :P

Hey neuro... just out of curiosity... Most people say the 7D's diffraction limit is roughly F7 give or take... what is the 5d2's? 
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dtaylor

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Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #214 on: December 19, 2011, 04:35:18 PM »
I regret buying my 7Ds as, yes I got more in focus than the 5DII but each 5DII image that is in focus is far better than those from the 7D - especially the bokeh from the 7D which is horrible in comparison.

LOL! Bokeh is entirely a quality of the LENS.

If you don't know this then don't bother to offer an opinion on how the bodies compare.

Quote
The one beauty about the 5DII is that you can use the centre point for focus then crop to get the AF point off centre and still have a better IQ than any 7D will give.

A demonstrably false statement since the two are very evenly matched at low to mid ISO when the 5D2 has all of its pixels, something that can be confirmed by comparing test images and measurements at sites like DP Review and Imaging Resource (to eliminate any chance of operator error).

neuroanatomist

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Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #215 on: December 19, 2011, 04:38:03 PM »
Hey neuro... just out of curiosity... Most people say the 7D's diffraction limit is roughly F7 give or take... what is the 5d2's?

It's f/6.9 for the 7D and f/10.2 for the 5DII.  Note that those are the apertures at which diffraction theoretically begins to reduce image sharpness...but it's a subtle thing at first, getting progressively more impactful as you stop down futher. 
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awinphoto

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Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #216 on: December 19, 2011, 04:43:20 PM »
Hey neuro... just out of curiosity... Most people say the 7D's diffraction limit is roughly F7 give or take... what is the 5d2's?

It's f/6.9 for the 7D and f/10.2 for the 5DII.  Note that those are the apertures at which diffraction theoretically begins to reduce image sharpness...but it's a subtle thing at first, getting progressively more impactful as you stop down futher.

Thanks... i was hoping with the much lower pixel density it would be lower like F16, but F10 i suppose is a stop and a third more roughly... saving up for your 1dx?  :)
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Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #216 on: December 19, 2011, 04:43:20 PM »

dtaylor

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Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #217 on: December 19, 2011, 04:45:06 PM »
Yeah, I was curoius about that too.  I don't see how that can be the case.  Certainly for the same framing and aperture, the 7D will have less OOF blur - but bokeh is the quality of that blur, and I had thought that was a property of the lens for the most part.  The one area in which sensor size might play a role in bokeh is the 'cat's-eye' shapes of OOF highlights, which result from optical vignetting - but in that case, the crop sensor would be better than FF (assuming we're comparing the same lens, but that's the only possible relevant comparison for bokeh), since the smaller sensor reduces vignetting.

Yes, with one caveat: if the lenses being used on FF and crop have the same diameter of aperture, and the background is far enough in the distance, then background blur will be identical. Blur near the plane of focus is controlled by DoF. Blur far outside the plane of focus is controlled by physical aperture size. (Not the f-stop, but the actual size of the opening for the lens at the given f-stop.)

This doesn't often happen indoors because the background is generally too close. For outdoor shots though you can end up with the same background blur on FF and crop. Subject DoF will still be more shallow on FF, though that may or may not be desirable.

neuroanatomist

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Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #218 on: December 19, 2011, 04:46:33 PM »
saving up for your 1dx?  :)

Cash in hand, just waiting for B&H to start accepting pre-orders.   ;D
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K-amps

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Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #219 on: December 19, 2011, 04:47:20 PM »
saving up for your 1dx?  :)

Cash in hand, just waiting for B&H to start accepting pre-orders.   ;D

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Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #220 on: December 19, 2011, 04:49:42 PM »
I was going to get a 7D for that very reason...that was until the 1DX was announced so I will wait for it but shooting my little daughter on the move even using servo AF with my 5D mkII is such a pain!  In the same setup you describe above, my keep rate with my 5D mkII is almost zero!  So I just gave up  ???

Just shoot at f/11 - it will seem like the AF is doing a good job.  Don't mind that the background is in crisp focus, too.   :P

Thanks I will try that.  I never thought of trying this but it makes sense, and as a bonus I will feel good about my 5D mkII AF, so it will serve as therapy...until the 1DX gets here!
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Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #221 on: December 19, 2011, 04:50:04 PM »
Just a link to a site  some of you probably know. It shows the capability of the 7D to shoot landscapes.

http://www.juzaphoto.com/gallery.php?l=en&id=38

It can be done. Take a look at some other galleries he made with his 7D. It's a great camera.
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Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #222 on: December 19, 2011, 04:50:33 PM »
I'm coming to this discussion late, but thought I'd offer my experience.  I bought a 7D early in 2011 to supplement my 5D classic. 

There is no doubt that the 7D is a much faster handling camera than the 5D or I believe the 5D II.  That's why I bought it.  I always shoot RAW and use various programs for post processing.  I typically shoot at ISO 100 or 200.

I had quite a bit of trouble getting images that I liked from the 7D at first.  The images are definitely different than what my 5D classic produces.  There is more detail, due to the additional megapixels, but there is also more noise.  I had to get used to using more noise reduction for my RAW files and less sharpening.  (Of course sharpening depends on the lens and other factors too.)

I decided to keep the 7D as a sports/action type camera, since the 5D is certainly not good for those subjects.  I got the 7D as a refurb through the Canon Loyalty program so it was not terribly expensive.

Working with the 7D has made me really appreciate the image quality of the 5D.  It's hard to describe exactly what it is that I like, but I will note that I can manipulate the tone curves a lot before the image starts to break down - much more so than with the 7D

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Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #222 on: December 19, 2011, 04:50:33 PM »

dtaylor

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Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #223 on: December 19, 2011, 04:51:05 PM »
Thanks... i was hoping with the much lower pixel density it would be lower like F16, but F10 i suppose is a stop and a third more roughly... saving up for your 1dx?  :)

Note that diffraction does not impact any format more than any other for the same FoV and DoF. Also, as neuroanatomist pointed out, it's a subtle effect at first and becomes progressively stronger as you continue to stop down.

On crop at the 7D's resolution I don't really notice it at all until f/11, where sharpening offsets it nicely. f/16 is still usable for most intents (subject matter / print size combos), but I will not stop down to f/22.

awinphoto

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Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #224 on: December 19, 2011, 04:53:33 PM »
saving up for your 1dx?  :)

Cash in hand, just waiting for B&H to start accepting pre-orders.   ;D

Nice... You've mentioned before you're an "ameature" photographer and not professional, so what do you do for a profession that makes you so well versed in photography? Should I assume given your name and icon you are a medical photographer or work in neurology or is it something else entirely?  Shoot I had that type of money in hand a few months ago but did my wife let me get a 1 series... nooooo... haha Went straight towards a house...  oh well... my cameras are serviceable. 
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Re: Earthshatteringly Disappointed With 7D
« Reply #224 on: December 19, 2011, 04:53:33 PM »