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Author Topic: Hoping for a Entry level FF  (Read 7645 times)

ping_media

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Re: Hoping for a Entry level FF
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2011, 10:24:26 AM »

I think 3500 for that body is super wishful thinking. Could always get a 5D classic?
« Last Edit: December 17, 2011, 10:51:30 PM by ping_media »

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Re: Hoping for a Entry level FF
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2011, 10:24:26 AM »

elflord

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Re: Hoping for a Entry level FF
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2011, 10:26:04 AM »
I think Canon would be smart to introduce a $1800 FF for the many that want to move up from APC (in my case a 50D).  I want great low light IQ. And do it soon please!

Its clear Canon is willing to sell a $2000 FF and I saw a thread on here about how FF sensors do not cost that much more than APC sized.  So maybe they will produce....

A "5DMIII" with 28 - 36 MP FF, better AF than the MII, ~6- 7 FPS, a little better build than 5DMII, Dual Digic 5- $3500 - 1.5 stops better ISO than 5DMII

A "6D" (or "70D") with 18 MP FF, 60D AF and 3.5 FPS, 60D build (but WITH AFMA) Digic 5- $1800 - 2 Stops better ISO than 5DMII

The reasoning - you want to lock in anyone transitioning from APC > FF because that is a natural point to consider changing systems because many lenses owned by APC users will not work (or will not be nearly as sharp) on FF.  You get people to go Canon FF, you lock them in with EF lenses going forward.

I am not going to pay more than 2K for a FF.  I do not want to switch systems but some in my place might.

If Canon doesn't come out with my option soon I and everyone else in my boat could get a 5DMII and wait a year but that would be frustrating (having to sell and buy again), knowing they have great low-light sensor coming in March.

Another option is sell my 50D for $375 and get a T2i for the year/year-and- a-half wait and have improved IQ over what I have now for $200 out of pocket (and I could spend the other $1800 I have saved now on another expensive hobby I have)!

When an affordable lower light/higher ISO FF arrives I can keep the T2i as a backup/ long-reach to use with my 1.4 TC and my 70-200 4 IS in low ISO situations.

Adorama have the new 5D Mark II for 2099, and if you get the 15% off refurb deal (like they have now), you can get it for 1699.

obyphotography

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Re: Hoping for a Entry level FF
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2011, 10:38:05 AM »
The limits of the 5DII are the autofocus and shutter speed, but both of them are critical in sport and wildlife photography only.

I think you mean frame rate.  The 5DII can achieve 1/8000 s shutter speed as can every other current xD and xxD body.

Sorry you are right  :-[

jrista

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Re: Hoping for a Entry level FF
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2011, 11:54:19 AM »
New 5D2's are going for $2099 on Adorama right now. So I think it's definitely doable that a full frame camera could sell new for sub-$1800.

Hmm, you got a link on that? I see refurbs going for around that price (even higher), but not new bodies.
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Maui5150

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Re: Hoping for a Entry level FF
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2011, 11:56:23 AM »

Adorama have the new 5D Mark II for 2099, and if you get the 15% off refurb deal (like they have now), you can get it for 1699.


Where? 

http://www.adorama.com/ICA5DM2R.html is the Refurb at 2199

http://www.adorama.com/ICA5DM2.html is the new US at 2399

And yes there is the 1699 deal of the refurb from Canon.  Awesome deal as long as it lasts

elflord

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Re: Hoping for a Entry level FF
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2011, 12:02:09 PM »

Adorama have the new 5D Mark II for 2099, and if you get the 15% off refurb deal (like they have now), you can get it for 1699.


Where? 

http://www.adorama.com/ICA5DM2R.html is the Refurb at 2199

http://www.adorama.com/ICA5DM2.html is the new US at 2399

And yes there is the 1699 deal of the refurb from Canon.  Awesome deal as long as it lasts


http://www.adorama.com/ICA5DM2.html?emailprice=t&utm_term=Other&utm_medium=Affiliate&utm_campaign=Other&utm_source=rflaid41619

thejoyofsobe

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Re: Hoping for a Entry level FF
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2011, 01:27:24 PM »
The 5D Classic would certainly be an entry-level full frame camera. The thing is though you can't buy new ones so Canon's not making any money off the used market.

Moreover it's an old camera that wouldn't be as friendly to who I see the market for a new entry-level FF camera being, which is to say those looking to upgrade from their current APS-C body, don't have the funds for a 5D3 and can't justify spending an extra $1000 for features on the 7D that are aren't going to regularly need. I think no Auto-ISO, no live view, no sensor cleaning, no video and Digic II high ISO noise performance of the 5D classic would be a non-starter for most of them. If it wasn't an issue they would have gotten a used 20D instead of their current Rebel tXi or XXD body.

However after the 5D3 came out if there was an option for the same price as a 7D to buy a new 5D2 or even better the 5D2's guts in something with the build quality of the 60D  with an articulated screen I think those folks could be enticed to upgrade.

New 5D2's are going for $2099 on Adorama right now. So I think it's definitely doable that a full frame camera could sell new for sub-$1800.


Hmm, you got a link on that? I see refurbs going for around that price (even higher), but not new bodies.

someone already posted this link. just wanted to make sure you got it in case you were interested in purchasing one.
http://www.adorama.com/ICA5DM2.html?emailprice=t&utm_term=Other&utm_medium=Affiliate&utm_campaign=Other&utm_source=rflaid41619
« Last Edit: December 11, 2011, 01:29:31 PM by thejoyofsobe »

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Re: Hoping for a Entry level FF
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2011, 01:27:24 PM »

Rocky

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Re: Hoping for a Entry level FF
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2011, 02:30:54 PM »
" A "6D" (or "70D") with 18 MP FF, 60D AF and 3.5 FPS, 60D build (but WITH AFMA) Digic 5"
That is a reasonable and a good spec from in my opinion. The only problem is that will definitely eating the sales of the 1Dx very fast. Most of the people (including pro's) will go for it instead of the 1Dx, unless the DO need the fast frame rate.

Jettatore

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Re: Hoping for a Entry level FF
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2011, 02:58:25 PM »
LimeTapse.  Just in case they don't, you might consider buying a used 5D Mark I (that's a one) Or consider a used, older generation copy of a series 1D/1Ds body (but note that not all of them are full-frame).  Heck even a new copy of the current 5D Mark II isn't that far from the price you have listed.  Worth a thought.

thejoyofsobe

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Re: Hoping for a Entry level FF
« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2011, 03:35:43 PM »
" A "6D" (or "70D") with 18 MP FF, 60D AF and 3.5 FPS, 60D build (but WITH AFMA) Digic 5"
That is a reasonable and a good spec from in my opinion. The only problem is that will definitely eating the sales of the 1Dx very fast. Most of the people (including pro's) will go for it instead of the 1Dx, unless the DO need the fast frame rate.
that's why i think an entry level FF would either need to be probably need to be the previous generation sensor and/or Digic processor. Professionals looking for a new body would likely have the desire and the cash for the top performing 1DX and 5D3. Those looking to go full frame without forking out over $3000 for a body could go with this entry-level, one generation behind camera. Like how the XXD line was downgraded to a "super rebel" with lighter plastic body, slower FPS and SD cards so not to appeal to the semi-pros and pros but rather to the enthusiast, why not do the same to create this new entry-level FF.

KarelP

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Re: Hoping for a Entry level FF
« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2011, 04:30:14 PM »
The entry level FF is already here and it's called the 5D Classic. Just picked one up used for 600 euro, with 6000 clicks, sale date feb 2009. Another 75 euro got me a used BG-E4 and 2 batteries. Between that and my 50D there's not much I can't handle, especialliy with the lenses I've collected so far. The couple of grand I saved on a 5DIII or whatever it's called will over time be spent on glass: a EF 100L macro and a EF 135 2.0L to begin with.

For everyday users like me the classic 5D is (still) a brilliant camera, whatever people may say about it's supposedly shitty AF for moving subjects. When I started out with the original Nikkormat EL the AF was me. Now THAT was shitty AF for moving subjects...

Cheers,

Karel

 

LimeTapse

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Re: Hoping for a Entry level FF
« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2011, 06:19:22 PM »
Thanks everyone for the thoughts.

You can get a new 7D from Canada for just above $1300:

http://www.photoprice.ca/product/02849/Canon-EOS-7D-price.html

And the 5DMII for $1999 (and it has been that way for months):

http://www.photoprice.ca/product/02699/Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-II-price.html

So a $1599 7DII and $1899 6D/70D FF seem reasonable.  Body prices drop from generation to generation.  If it were the opposite the current 18MP, better ISO performing T2i would be twice the $1100 I paid for my new 350D back in 2005.  But it is only half the price.

I could easily see the 18 MP sensor (or one very close to it in IQ) from the 1DX in a $1899 6D/70D FF.  Right now the 7D sensor is the same (or at least effectively the same IQ) as the sub $600 T2i (all with a DxOMark score 66).

And respectively, while a great camera, saying the six-year-old 5DI (DxOMark score of 71) should be accepted as the current entry level FF is just wrong (i see the Pentax K5 sensor scoring 82 at DxOMark - which is under a thousand new in Canada).  Will the new Canon 18MP sensor come in at > 85? >90?  Even higher?

I want to stay with Canon - I just hope they will not neglect my segment of the market!

moreorless

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Re: Hoping for a Entry level FF
« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2011, 08:15:03 AM »
The continued sucess of the 5D mk2 at a lower price point does certainly seem to hint that there a significant market for an entry level FF body, Indeed I could see this being the most important battleground of this generation considering that the D3s and 5D mk2 have hilighted the direction both companies are likely to go with similar models this time around.

As far as the 7D goes I wouldnt be supprized to see it move up in the market this time round giving it more distance from the 70D aswell as appealing more to ASPH users.

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Re: Hoping for a Entry level FF
« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2011, 08:15:03 AM »

Mendolera

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Re: Hoping for a Entry level FF
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2011, 10:34:39 AM »
Been looking to upgrade my body for the last 6 months about the same time I discovered this site... Have done a lot of reading through the forums without a lot of posting.

Computer Engineer by day, amatuer photograher by night  :D

Im been debating the 60D, 7D, and Mark II for a few months but have a tough time deciding what I love shooting most and is primary why I havent pulled the trigger yet. Part of me would love the 7D for wildlife (100-400 is my favorite lens.) but at the same time would love the Mark II because most of my pictures are portraits of my son/family and landscapes..

I even thought of getting a ebay 5D classic and a 7D which would be similar in price to Mark II.

If money wasnt an issue Id get the 1D Mark IV but since its just a hobby I can justify it to the old lady. So im hoping for a 7DII with a ISO performance comparable to todays Mark II. A new entry FF though might also be ideal!!

So for now my trusty XSI will be increasing its shutter count :)
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pedro

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Re: Hoping for a Entry level FF
« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2011, 10:54:32 AM »

I could easily see the 18 MP sensor (or one very close to it in IQ) from the 1DX in a $1899 6D/70D FF.  Right now the 7D sensor is the same (or at least effectively the same IQ) as the sub $600 T2i (all with a DxOMark score 66).


What about a 6D with 1Dx sensor, but with same ISO range as 5D2 plus the extensions: L1 50, H1 51200 at 2500 USD in case that a 5D3 is at around 3500 USD ?
« Last Edit: December 12, 2011, 10:56:38 AM by pedro »
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Re: Hoping for a Entry level FF
« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2011, 10:54:32 AM »