Whortwhile to go for 5D Mark II?

[awinphoto]

I got the 5d2 because I was sick and tired of waiting for the 5d3...  going from a 7d to the 5d2 has been very humbling with the autofocus... Quality of file, when in focus, is great, but my lord, the AF in the 5d2 is like putting an Hyundai engine inside a Ferrari... It's truely a shame and I will be liquidating mine once the 5d3 comes out assuming it has better AF...

I am relatively new to the game and photography is a hobby for me... so new that I usually center spot AF my shots (unless I macro, then I MF) . When I hear many people not liking the AF of the 5D2, I cannot understand why (not because I offer a competing perspective, but simply because I do not know better): I am learning yes... but ; can anyone dumb this down for me... how exactly is the AF on the 5D2 not up to what you guys want? Is it just plain accuracy, or slow AF, or the processor's inability to set a multi point focus by increasing DoF or what?

The answer to this might help me make a decision on the 5d2 or 5d3 or even 7d just like the OP.

As brian mentioned, the outside points are few and not that accurate... The 7d for instance has 19 (18 outside points) to the 5d2's 9 (8 outside points) and all the 7d's points are more spread out and cross type points where the 5d's are single line points so the 7d's outter points are a lot more accurate... Plus the focus tracking where the AF can follow a subject is more advanced on the 7d vs the 5d2... For those jumping from the XXD or even the rebels may find the 5d2 AF very nice and good, but for those going from the 7d, the AF isn't anything to write home about, unless you're writing home to gripe about missed shots that were focused on the subjects nose and not their eyes.  Short answer the 7d allows you to compose more before you shoot rather than shoot and crop in post...

[neuroanatomist]

Thanks... and the fact that I almost always use Center point AF is why I never found the AF to be bad... by the way; is the 5d2 Af better than the 5Dc or are they the same (especially for Center).

The AF sensor is identical - Canon reused the same sensor from the 5D in the 5DII.  But the 5DII uses Digic 4, whereas the 5D used Digic 2 - the newer and faster processor in the 5DII means the AF is slightly faster.

[awinphoto]

If you centre spot the AF on the 5DII then you  will get accurate AF. It is the focus points outside the center which are not good in low light and also the area the the A points cover is less than the 7D

In hindsight buying the 7D was a mistake as the IQ of the image is nowhere as good as the 7D, plus the bokeh is very poor. The 7D will get more in forcus pictures but none of them will be as good as the in focus 5DII picture

Thanks... and the fact that I almost always use Center point AF is why I never found the AF to be bad... by the way; is the 5d2 Af better than the 5Dc or are they the same (especially for Center).

I think it is faster, but that is just my impression, not measured. The AF on the 5DII is about the same as the 50D for speed.

From my experience with the 50d, the 5d is as FAST as the 50D, but not nearly as accurate... at least the 50D has all cross sensors... i never really had a problem with the 50D's focus... i just hated it's noise compared to the 7D, IMO

[RonQ]

Thanks... and the fact that I almost always use Center point AF is why I never found the AF to be bad... by the way; is the 5d2 Af better than the 5Dc or are they the same (especially for Center).

The AF sensor is identical - Canon reused the same sensor from the 5D in the 5DII.  But the 5DII uses Digic 4, whereas the 5D used Digic 2 - the newer and faster processor in the 5DII means the AF is slightly faster.

So then with that said, how can you take a group portrait using the center point only for focusing on the 5D11?  If that's the case, then everone off center will be out of focus...

[awinphoto]

Thanks... and the fact that I almost always use Center point AF is why I never found the AF to be bad... by the way; is the 5d2 Af better than the 5Dc or are they the same (especially for Center).

The AF sensor is identical - Canon reused the same sensor from the 5D in the 5DII.  But the 5DII uses Digic 4, whereas the 5D used Digic 2 - the newer and faster processor in the 5DII means the AF is slightly faster.

So then with that said, how can you take a group portrait using the center point only for focusing on the 5D11?  If that's the case, then everone off center will be out of focus...

Well everything not on the same focal plane as what was focused upon from the center point... But then again that's where you use a smaller f-stop and try to get everyone in focus assuming that's what you want... 

[K-amps]

Thanks... and the fact that I almost always use Center point AF is why I never found the AF to be bad... by the way; is the 5d2 Af better than the 5Dc or are they the same (especially for Center).

The AF sensor is identical - Canon reused the same sensor from the 5D in the 5DII.  But the 5DII uses Digic 4, whereas the 5D used Digic 2 - the newer and faster processor in the 5DII means the AF is slightly faster.

So then with that said, how can you take a group portrait using the center point only for focusing on the 5D11?  If that's the case, then everone off center will be out of focus...

Well everything not on the same focal plane as what was focused upon from the center point... But then again that's where you use a smaller f-stop and try to get everyone in focus assuming that's what you want...

Thanks for your responses: Awin/John & Brian

Interesting.. never ran into this issue  ... now I will look out for it... but in this scenario, by focal plane, do you mean a straight line horizonal (along which the group is standing;  gets all in focus, or is the plane sort of semi-circular so that all points are equi-distant to the lens?

[awinphoto]

Thanks... and the fact that I almost always use Center point AF is why I never found the AF to be bad... by the way; is the 5d2 Af better than the 5Dc or are they the same (especially for Center).

The AF sensor is identical - Canon reused the same sensor from the 5D in the 5DII.  But the 5DII uses Digic 4, whereas the 5D used Digic 2 - the newer and faster processor in the 5DII means the AF is slightly faster.

So then with that said, how can you take a group portrait using the center point only for focusing on the 5D11?  If that's the case, then everone off center will be out of focus...

Well everything not on the same focal plane as what was focused upon from the center point... But then again that's where you use a smaller f-stop and try to get everyone in focus assuming that's what you want...

Interesting.. never ran into this issue  ... now I will look out for it... but in this scenario, by focal plane, do you mean a straight line horzonal (along which the group is standing gets all in focus, or is the plane sort of semi-circular so that all points are equi-distant to the lens?

Focal plane is usually the horizontal distance from the lens/sensor... So in a group, everyone side by side by side should all be in focus... but for instance if you have them kind of cascading away from the camera, whatever you focus on will have the focal plane and as they leave the focal plane they will gradually fall out of focus... In some lenses/cameras such as tilt shifts and large formats you can manipulate the focal plane to go vertically rather than horizontal or every which way, but that's another topic for another day. 

[briansquibb]

So then with that said, how can you take a group portrait using the center point only for focusing on the 5D11?  If that's the case, then everone off center will be out of focus...

Try focusing at f/8 or more which is what I do for weddings ....

You will need good DOF for groups as they never stand in a single plane for you

[K-amps]

..... manipulate the focal plane to go vertically rather than horizontal or every which way, but that's another topic for another day.

Haha Rhyming man. 

 I guess I never took group shots with people in multiple rows, mine are usually in 1 line with my 24-105F4 and with that I never have such problems at the distance I shoot them from.

[awinphoto]

..... manipulate the focal plane to go vertically rather than horizontal or every which way, but that's another topic for another day.

Haha Rhyming man. 

 I guess I never took group shots with people in multiple rows, mine are usually in 1 line with my 24-105F4 and with that I never have such problems at the distance I shoot them from.

Your depth of field of your focal plane depends on a lot of factors including aperture, distance of your subjects to your camera, angle of view, sensor size, etc... typically in groups you should be fine unless for instance bigger groups or if you have people in front or below other people or such... but typically you're back far enough not to be a problem for the most part unless your inside, crappy light, and using a fast lens in which the DOF is very tiny... For the heck of it, if you crimp your shots (view them after you just taken them) and notice someone out of focus that you want in focus... drop your aperture down a stop or two, compensate for the shutter (if shooting in M) and you should be good.  =)

[Arkarch]

Here are my thoughts on getting a 5DMarkII now....

I am using a 7D primarily for Adventure/Sport/Event photography.  The lightning fast AF is just demanded in this work - plus crop gets me that longer effective lens length.   I cant see slow AF working.  Yet in the past year I have gotten much more interested in landscapes - and my work there is almost always in Manual Focus.   A full-frame body is next on my shopping list for this work and a 5DMII would definitely complement the 7D.  Really, I dont think I even care about AF for landscape work.

So for those reasons, I really should just go for 5DMarkII now.  But I can probably wait a bit - at least to the summer - to get a 5DMIII with likely better IQ and maybe higher MP for landscape.  The working plan is to acquire FF-type lenses (get a 17-40 or 16-35 to replace the EF-S 10-22 for example) and then see where we are in March after the release of the "London" 1DX.

Without the 7D, I dunno, $1999 for a 5DMII + goodies (at least the CF Card) would be mighty tempting to jump on now.

[wickidwombat]

I spent 7 months or so in the 7D vs 5DMKII camp and flipped back and forth more than a politician... Pretty much almost an acrobat or gymnast at that point. 

I just pulled the shutter on the 5DMKII end of last month and am happy. 

Will it be "outdated" in a year.  Yup... but then again, the 5DMKIII will be outdated by the middle of 2013 as well.

I stepped up from my T2i and the biggest factor to me was going FF and getting better IQ.  That being said, the 5D MKII AF I wish had more points, especially when I am shooting fashion in lower light, but the end result over the next 6 months or how ever long until the 5DMKIII is available, I am MUCH happier with my images, my models love them, and I really like the step up.  The net result come next year, I will be a better photographer than if I had just shot the T2i.

9 AF points are fine the problem is 8 of them are nearly as usefull as bull tits

[briansquibb]

9 AF points are fine the problem is 8 of them are nearly as usefull as bull tits

I guess you haven't done much work with a 5DII then ..... in good light with a fast lens they are fine.

[awinphoto]

I spent 7 months or so in the 7D vs 5DMKII camp and flipped back and forth more than a politician... Pretty much almost an acrobat or gymnast at that point. 

I just pulled the shutter on the 5DMKII end of last month and am happy. 

Will it be "outdated" in a year.  Yup... but then again, the 5DMKIII will be outdated by the middle of 2013 as well.

I stepped up from my T2i and the biggest factor to me was going FF and getting better IQ.  That being said, the 5D MKII AF I wish had more points, especially when I am shooting fashion in lower light, but the end result over the next 6 months or how ever long until the 5DMKIII is available, I am MUCH happier with my images, my models love them, and I really like the step up.  The net result come next year, I will be a better photographer than if I had just shot the T2i.

9 AF points are fine the problem is 8 of them are nearly as usefull as bull tits

Hahaha... Kinda leave framing your shots for post production unless your model is still enough to lock focus in the center and reposition and hope they didn't sway forward or back...  After going from a 7d to a 5d2, I guess i kinda hoped for more from a camera $1000 more than a 7d, but then again i knew what i was sorta getting into when i bought so i cant be too bummed...

Brian... the outter points are not cross type, so they can focus, but are typically not as critically focused... like focusing on the cheek and not the eye and such... It'll get you in the ballpark but with shallow dof, it could be enough to royally screw you up... 

[wickidwombat]

9 AF points are fine the problem is 8 of them are nearly as usefull as bull tits

I guess you haven't done much work with a 5DII then ..... in good light with a fast lens they are fine.

sorry i should have specified in low light

and i have only had the 5DII for a few months, after getting frustrated with the outer points i have just stopped using them. At least focus recompose with the center has more chance of nailing it IMO than the outer ones and in low light the outer ones just dont achieve lock period