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Author Topic: New Photographer. Need suggestions :)  (Read 11079 times)

Mendolera

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Re: New Photographer. Need suggestions :)
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2011, 03:01:09 PM »
+1 for a real flash like a 430 or 580ex to rent and possible a diffuser.. Lens aside its going to be the most important thing in a dimmly lit room.

If its a indoor reception your going to have to shoot at least 1600-3200 and wide open

Spend a couple of hours watching youtube and get a sense how to use, bouncing it off ceilings, through a softbox, etc..

Dont forget extra batteries with a couple hundred shots the voltage in the battery will take forever to recycle the capacitor
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Re: New Photographer. Need suggestions :)
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2011, 03:01:09 PM »

willrobb

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Re: New Photographer. Need suggestions :)
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2011, 03:01:23 PM »
Good for you for agreeing to shoot your brothers wedding despite you advising him to get a professional to do it. It's a big responsibility, you probably won't be able to fully participate in the wedding, but you will be in chars of giving them their memories from the day. Quite a responsibility.

I agree about the 24-70mm f2.8L, I use it 75% of the time at weddings, seeing as how you won't be shooting full frame I would hire a 24-70 EF-S lens (I rbink they exist, someone please point out if I am wrong) that covers the same bases for your camera. It's important to have wide options as well as zooming in for closer shots. This plus the 50mm prime will do, if you aren't used to shooting weddings keep it simple.

Hire a speedlite, it's essential. If possible, get a ETTL chord to allow shooting off camera as well. If you can, try to avoid flashing straight on as it can make the photos look a bit flat. For individual/couple photos try holding the flash to the side, up above, practice first and decide what you like. For group shots you'll probably have to flash straight on. Inside, angle the speedlite head up to the ceiling if it's lightly coloured, the flash will spread the light out. Flashing directly onto the guests inside can make or nasty shadows.

As well as the portraits of the couple together, focus in the bride as someone already said. Do some individual shots of her showing the full dress from the front and the back. Get close ups of the ring, flower details in her hair, bows on the back of the dress etc.

thepancakeman

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Re: New Photographer. Need suggestions :)
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2011, 03:10:23 PM »
...and possible a diffuser..

My wife uses <name brand> diffuser and it makes a world of difference.  There are probably lots of other options out there, but point being a diffuser can make a huge difference with the flash.  Otherwise it kinda depends on what your bounce options are (ceiling height for example.)

RonQ

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Re: New Photographer. Need suggestions :)
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2011, 03:15:20 PM »
Hello CR,

I've been following CR for a couple months now since I bought my T3i and have delved into the world of photography.  I've done some wildlife photography recently and some portraits and have discovered I really enjoy portraits and events.

I recently shot my brother's (with my wife's help) engagement photos with my new camera and a 50 1.8 lens I borrowed from a friend. They came out pretty good (Well at least he thought they did) and asked if I would shoot his wedding.  While I have no experience shooting weddings (and clearly told him so:), I said I would.  So...

What lenses do you suggest I use.  I know I can borrow the 50 1.8 from a friend and she'll let me borrow her 28-70 2.8L lens.  I'll probably borrow her 60D and shot with my wife (She'll use the T3i).

Also, any other suggestions for a budding wedding photographer.  Thanks in advance.

Mike
Mike,
I agree with what everyone has posted here.  Let me give you a little background on my very first wedding and what to expect. 

#1 Even if you think you've prepaired something almost always happens that will throw you off.
Full sun and full shade.... Always scope out the area ahead of time.

#2 Weddings are fast pace, I would get a back-up camera.  You don't want to miss a shot.
Camera 1 should have a wide angle lens and camera 2 should have a telephoto lens.  If I'm shooting people mingeling around and I see mom in tears far away from me, I'll pull out my second to get that shot so I don't miss it.  Fast pace - you dont want to miss anything.

#3
You will not have a minute to relax and dont expect it.  Bring plenty of cards with you, enough to capture the whole event.

Anyway, my 2cents..... Even after several weddings, I still learn something new every time I shoot one. 
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distant.star

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Re: New Photographer. Need suggestions :)
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2011, 03:43:40 PM »

Wow, as someone who did wedding years ago I'm overwhelmed by all the great advice. A couple of thoughts I've had.

1. Consider renting the EF-S 15-85. On the crop-sensor it will give you a better wide end. You can rent it for less than $50, and here's what Roger at LensRentals says about it:

"To be honest, when this was first released we had no intention of stocking it. I considered it overpriced for what it is, but we’ve had a number of requests so we’re adding it to the inventory. The good news is it’s very, very sharp, has superb image stabilization, and is very well built. The bad news is it has significant barrel distortion at the wide end and it vignettes rather badly (if you shoot in RAW this is no issue since it’s easily fixed in post-processing)."

2. I can't say enough how important it is to be in touch with people who work weddings professionally. As suggested, they may offer an opportunity for you to shoot and see what a wedding looks like from that side of it -- much different than you can imagine, and only experience will reveal this. And if they're willing to offer advice, listen carefully and take it to heart. The most important things I learned came from listening to pros.

3. Don't forget that you are as much a director as a photojournalist. You're not there merely to document what happened -- you're there to create and preserve memories for the whole family. In that spirit, do not be timid. Go anywhere you need to go to get the shot you want. If you have to stand in front of Aunt Matilda for a minute, she'll get over it. If you have to get up on the altar to get the angle, do it (within reason of what the official and bride are okay with). This is a time for you to be self-important.

4. And finally, the most important thing a pro ever told me before I even did my first wedding -- Don't be afraid to do it over. A wedding is not an execution, it can be done again. If you really screw up a shot or have an equipment failure, stop right there and have the scene, whatever it is, done again so you can image it. That may seem embarrassing, but it's less troublesome than years of having people say the cake eating scene was great, too bad we don't have a picture of it. I assure you, this knowledge will increase your confidence.

Lastly, congratulation to you on taking on the assignment. I think it will be good for everyone!
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thejoyofsobe

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Re: New Photographer. Need suggestions :)
« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2011, 03:59:06 PM »
1. Consider renting the EF-S 15-85. On the crop-sensor it will give you a better wide end. You can rent it for less than $50
keep in mind that if it's an indoor wedding the EF-S 15-85mm probably necessitates the use of a flash, which is another piece equipment to master and either rent or buy.

15-17mm = f/3.5
18-26mm = f/4.0
27-37mm = f/4.5
38-60mm = f/5.0
61-85mm = f/5.6

distant.star

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Re: New Photographer. Need suggestions :)
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2011, 04:36:18 PM »

Flash should be available regardless the lens.

The 15-85 has a four-stop IS. I routinely shoot people at 1/30. Unfortunately, like any lens, you have to work with it to understand what it can and can't do. That need may make it untenable on a short-term rental. Something to consider.


1. Consider renting the EF-S 15-85. On the crop-sensor it will give you a better wide end. You can rent it for less than $50
keep in mind that if it's an indoor wedding the EF-S 15-85mm probably necessitates the use of a flash, which is another piece equipment to master and either rent or buy.

15-17mm = f/3.5
18-26mm = f/4.0
27-37mm = f/4.5
38-60mm = f/5.0
61-85mm = f/5.6
Walter: Were you listening to The Dude's story? Donny: I was bowling. Walter: So you have no frame of reference here, Donny. You're like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie and wants to know...

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Re: New Photographer. Need suggestions :)
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2011, 04:36:18 PM »

Freshprince08

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Re: New Photographer. Need suggestions :)
« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2011, 04:54:31 PM »
Congrats on your first wedding job!

I won't reiterate the warnings that the others have given about shooting a family wedding - as a relatively new wedding photographer myself I can confirm that they are all valid!

My 2c's worth:
  • have backups of everything - memory cards, batteries, 2nd body (check), backup lens if you can
  • try and know your gear inside and out - button locations, max ISO you can get away with, what focus points you can rely on in low light...
  • definitely shoot RAW - can be a lifesaver when you haven't nailed the exposure or have really difficult white balance settings to deal with
  • make sure you understand the order of events with your brother and sister-in-law, and then try and anticipate where you and your wife will need to be, depending on the focal lengths you are covering. I shoot with my fiancee and this is one area we struggled with initially... try and stay out of each other's shots :)
  • in terms of gear, you may find 24-70 a little wide, the 15-85 is a great lens but a little slow for indoor use, my recommendation would be to buy or hire the EF-S 17-55 f2.8 - plenty of other posts on this lens but it's sharp, has IS, relatively fast and covers wide to moderate telephoto. The 85mm f1.8 would be a good match for this and the 50mm f1.8. The 10-22mm would still be great for room/venue shots, but you could probably do most group shots with the 17-55
  • agree with all the other comments about needing a strobe - try and bounce/diffuse if you are indoors and the ceiling allows this
  • if you're shooting AV mode, keep an eye on your shutter speeds - your camera will try and meter for ambient light, and indoors this can mean shutter speeds that are too slow to freeze motion adequately.
  • backup everything as soon as you get home. Twice!!

Good luck.. would love to see some of the photos!
« Last Edit: December 15, 2011, 05:03:39 PM by Freshprince08 »
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Enrico

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Re: New Photographer. Need suggestions :)
« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2011, 05:03:36 PM »
Having done a few weddings as back up shooter, and attended perhaps 15 the past few years and knowing I was very picky with the shots of my own wedding. Here's my advice (next to what's already been said):

- if possible, bring the couple to the church sometime before the wedding. churces are most of the time opened but empty... it will be good for them to practice the walk, standing by the altar etc and you will have all the time in the world looking at positions, trying out ISO and lenses!

- shoot alot 1! shot hands, rings, shoes, champagne bottles, the set tables (before people sit down) picky details in the church / the dinner place etc. the bride and groom will be so stressed they will have a hard time remembering the event and these shots of details will give them a more "complete" memory of the day

- shoot alot 2! the pros probably don't want to come home with to much photos for post. but for us amateurs that's one way of hedging our mediocre result ;)

- ask if it is ok for you to follow the bride the whole day. be with her when doing the hair, the nails, putting on the dress etc. it will add up to her memory of the whole experience!

- make a plan of when and where todo the shots of the couple. before or after the cermony? when will there be most time so both you and them can be relaxed? and since it is your brother. take "wedding" shots of them a few weeks before the wedding and all 3 of you will be more prepared for the day!

- bring umbrellas. even if it is raining you can make great shots outdoors and use the umbrellas to enhance the shot (ie not only for rain cover... ;).

Believe in yourself and everyone else will as well! You're the photographer!

Best of luck!

willrobb

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Re: New Photographer. Need suggestions :)
« Reply #24 on: December 15, 2011, 05:10:06 PM »
Lots of great advice, nice to see everyone sharing so much :-)

unfocused

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Re: New Photographer. Need suggestions :)
« Reply #25 on: December 15, 2011, 05:19:54 PM »
Lots of good advice here. A few more cent's worth of thoughts.

I've successfully avoided shooting weddings since my film days, so these are either old, long-buried memories, or observations from weddings I've been to.

Definitely rent or secure a 580 EXII, you'll need the output and battery power. If possible, also rent the battery pack, so you have plenty of power throughout. Get a diffuser and practice with it beforehand, so you know where to set the flash exposure compensation.

At every wedding I've been to, regardless of if the couple is spending thousands on the wedding or just a few hundred, the photographer works the reception with a camera, strobe and diffuser capturing candids, also needed for the cake cutting, first dance, etc. etc.

If some portion of the ceremony or reception has enough light to be shot without strobe, great, but don't count on it. Even a crappy direct flash picture is going to be better than no picture at all. (And, even those crappy shots can often be salvaged with some plug-in and effects -- they won't look great, but they can be made to look okay. Not so with a blurry and out of focus shot)

Do some research and draw up a shot list. Some of these can be done either before or after the actual ceremony (hands with rings, hands lighting candles, and other detail shots) Take the bride to a window (assuming it's a daytime ceremony) and have her stand there with the light hitting one side of her face. Have someone hold a piece of foamcore on the other side to reflect some light back onto the other side of her face. Obviously these are natural light shots.

Stake out the location beforehand and take your camera to test exposures, bounce flash, etc.

Play to your strengths. You can take four times as long as a professional photographer prepping for the shoot because you aren't billing for it. You know the couple, so you know what they like, how they interact, etc. etc. Use that insider knowledge.

Finally, get your head wrapped around the idea that you want to "cover" the event like a photojournalist and not "direct" it like a commercial or fashion photographer. It's "f8 and be there."
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Re: New Photographer. Need suggestions :)
« Reply #26 on: December 15, 2011, 05:40:16 PM »
Great advice so far. In addition, I have the following suggestions:

If you're comfortable shooting in manual, I suggest doing so. Also, I suggest manually setting the white balance for the conditions, rather than using auto white balance. That way if the white balance doesn't come out quite right, you can batch process all the photos at once, instead of trying to correct the white balance for each one individually. Same reason for shooting full manual. If you shoot in AV or auto white balance, the camera tries to guess the correct shutter speed or white balance for each shot individually, and while most of the time it does a pretty good job of doing so, if it doesn't it can be time consuming to correct each photo individually. To get the best results out of this, you'll need to shoot in max resolution RAW.

Since memory cards are relatively cheap nowadays, I suggest shooting in max resolution RAW + small JPG (or even medium or large JPG if you have a large memory card, depending on how many shots you plan to take).  That way, you have the JPGs for immediately sharing with your brother & his new wife e.g. for emailing to friends & relatives who couldn't attend, posting to facebook etc., and you'll also have the max resolution RAW for getting the best possible results after post processing. If you have a smaller memory card and/or will have the time to convert all the photos from RAW to JPG very soon after the event, you can get away with shooting max RAW only, but sometimes having e.g. small JPGs for emailing / posting to facebook etc. already available can be handy.

*** Make a plan to have a friend or relative, who is hopefully somewhat familiar with cameras take some photos of you & your wife. Worst case, set the camera to full auto, recruit whoever is nearby, and then check the results to make sure they are worthwhile. If the camera is struggling in the conditions, you can frame the shot & set the parameters, and then have the bystander just frame the same shot & press the shutter button. While you are being very selfless & gracious in agreeing to shoot your brother's wedding, you still want to be in at least some of the shots & the standard set pieces yourself e.g. family of the groom etc. ***

pwp

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Re: New Photographer. Need suggestions :)
« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2011, 05:46:01 PM »
I recently shot my brother's engagement photos with my new camera and a 50 1.8 lens I borrowed from a friend. They came out pretty good (Well at least he thought they did) and asked if I would shoot his wedding.  While I have no experience shooting weddings (and clearly told him so:), I said I would. 
Also, any other suggestions for a budding wedding photographer.  Thanks in advance.
Mike

Mike, My advice in the strongest terms is to decline. The potential for life long lingering resentment, whether subtle or overt is high.

You may well be a terrific photographer but as you have close to zero experience shooting weddings or events, there are traps by the million that you possibly don't even know exist yet.

Give your family relationships the best possible chance and reconsider. If you are doing a good job as a wedding photographer you'll be 100% locked in to that job and you'll miss out on being a great brother at the wedding.

By all means take your camera, but make it VERY clear that you are not there as primary photographer...you are there as the brother of the groom and want to enjoy the event and a social time with family and guests. Trust me.

If you do go ahead and do the wedding, be VERY VERY clear and honest with your brother and his wife about the reality of your skill level and the high likelihood of missed or botched shots. If you are doing your job properly you'll barely have time to have a conversation with anyone...your attention will need to be on the job. There is no half measure.

If you want to give your brother and his wife a great wedding gift, offer to pay for a professional.

Paul Wright

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Re: New Photographer. Need suggestions :)
« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2011, 05:46:01 PM »

92101media

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Re: New Photographer. Need suggestions :)
« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2011, 06:21:49 PM »
Mike, My advice in the strongest terms is to decline. The potential for life long lingering resentment, whether subtle or overt is high.

You may well be a terrific photographer but as you have close to zero experience shooting weddings or events, there are traps by the million that you possibly don't even know exist yet.

Give your family relationships the best possible chance and reconsider. If you are doing a good job as a wedding photographer you'll be 100% locked in to that job and you'll miss out on being a great brother at the wedding.

By all means take your camera, but make it VERY clear that you are not there as primary photographer...you are there as the brother of the groom and want to enjoy the event and a social time with family and guests. Trust me.

If you do go ahead and do the wedding, be VERY VERY clear and honest with your brother and his wife about the reality of your skill level and the high likelihood of missed or botched shots. If you are doing your job properly you'll barely have time to have a conversation with anyone...your attention will need to be on the job. There is no half measure.

If you want to give your brother and his wife a great wedding gift, offer to pay for a professional.

Paul Wright

The above advice is worth considering strongly. While the temptation is there to use friends and/or family, especially when finances are tight, there is no do over of the day as a whole. You might even consider suggesting to your brother that a number of people chip into a pool together to pay for a professional, in lieu of a wedding present, if necessary. Again, you know your family best, so only you & they can determine what is acceptable.

If you do end up shooting the wedding, as has been mentioned, it is important for you to be very clear in setting expectations. It is far better to under promise & over deliver, than the other way round.

underjammer

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Re: New Photographer. Need suggestions :)
« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2011, 06:38:41 PM »
Well, I don't really have any general wedding suggestions, and surely nothing that compares to the others' postings, buttt, here's a fun (albeit renty/equipment-needy) idea..

DISCLAIMER: the practicality of this is highly-dependant on your (your brother's and his wife-to-be's) family and friends, I imagine.  : D  But if you're shooting their wedding, it sounds like they are more of the casual type, and may enjoy it.

I was at a wedding, once, where the photographers had set up a bit of a mini photo studio/booth where guests could go over and take their own small-group photos during the reception.  I believe for part of it, this was actually a manned station (there were at least 3 photographers at the wedding) for the important family photos, where they'd take care of organizing/posing them and taking the shot.  However, for the rest of the reception, we could just go over with friends and snap our own pictures.  It was actually a whoooole lot of fun (for a few minutes, at least...  and that adds up among different groups of guests!).

Though they wouldn't exactly be WEDDING shots, you would have some nice, consistent (very controlled lighting - minimal processing) family/friend portraits that could range from lovely-shots-with-the-grandparents-and-grand-children (for non-wedding use, etc..) to friends-drinking-one-too-many-and-rolling-around-laughing-and-taking-pictures-of-themselves.

It's pretty much a possibly useful or possibly pointless set up, depending on the wedding style..  : D  Again it depends on what your brother and his wife-to-be want for memories and/or to share with family and friends.. like "Hey!  Here's that picture you guys took of yourselves!  It came out great!  Enjoy it!"  OR "HAH, we're keeping this one for blackmail down the road.."

Anyway, you pretty much would have zero processing on those pictures (maybe a batch lens-correction / barrel distortion), since you'd set up proper exposure before hand, so however many pictures were taken, all you'd really need to do was sort through for the good ones.. (I imagine if you gave them all straight-up to your brother and his wife, then they might get overwhelmed if they have a thousand family/friend portraits to go through, eventually making them quite sick of the things!)  But I digress..

Here is what you'd need for the set up (unfortunately it's a bunch of stuff..):

1) a low traffic area at the reception (a corner..) - probably don't want it TOO far out of the way, because you want people to be near it, but you also don't want them to drunkenly (or dancingly) crash into it by accident, either..  Near a (neutral colored) wall will also give you some extra fill-light from the flash bouncing off the wall (see below..  essentially flash from a bounce umbrella will be coming at them from a bit of an angle opposite a wall...  that light bouncing off the wall should lighten the shadow side and help even out the lighting).

2) dedicated camera - this could be your backup DSLR (a 3rd one besides your t3i and your wife's 60D), OR it could be a smaller camera like a Canon G12, etc, that has a hot-shoe..  you really shouldn't need anything amazing for the camera..  ** unfortunately you'd need to ponder number 5 below (shutter release cable)  **

3) a wide-angle lens - nothing fancy..  the 18-55 kit lens should do just fine at 18mm (you'll want to do a batch barrel-distortion correction in post-processing, though).  I think the G12, at its widest, has about the same focal length.  The focal length is some what of a compromise..  a longer focal length will give you less distorted family members, but you're going to have a significantly larger "photo booth".  (PS someone chime about where to put the thinner/thicker people..?  thinner people at the edges in this sort of mid-close range shot...?)  However, if it's more of a fun/casual thing, I guess a little distortion isn't the end of the world.

4) a tripod for the camera - perhaps attach a weight to the tripod, to keep it from getting moved too much and/or knocked over.

5) shutter release cable / remote switch would be recommended - this way, you'll keep people away from touching the camera..  unfortunately, I don't know what non-DSLRs accept these..

6) flash - I imagine any flash will do, since this will be used in a very close setting, as long as it works with a hot shoe cord and/or isn't really old with high-voltage that can fry your hot-shoe.  It *will* need an adjustable head.

7) flash umbrella - increasing the size of your flash..

8) tripod / flash stand for the umbrella - you'll want that light a bit off camera, to the side, perhaps..

9) hot-shoe flash cord - this isn't really required..  You can mount the flash right to the top of the camera, and point the flash toward the umbrella that's to the side of the camera.

10) a chair or two, and some sort of simple back drop (a plain wall, if in the corner..?)

11)  flash card(s)  /  extra batteries!

I know it's a lot of stuff, but depending what kind of spare camera/flash you have and if you already happen to have a tripod and a flash umbrella, it could be a fun (and easy) thing to set up..  : D

Maybe you'd have to worry about people knocking it over, or manning it at some point..  Technicalities, technicalities..  : D  Perhaps find your most-trusted child or niece/nephew and give them 20$ to be a photo-shooting rock star for 30 minutes, etc.. maybe 2 of them, so they keep themselves entertained.  You probably know the limitations of your family.  : D

Anyway, sorry for the longness factor..  Again....

DISCLAIMER: It was fun to use as a guest, though I seriously have no idea how useful the pictures were to the bride and groom.  They thought they were fun, but they were definitely NOT "wedding" pictures.. more of an added-bonus..  So definitely don't spend too much time on it..  I think the whole point is being able to set it up (if you have the gear), and then let it take care of itself..  Then come back later, and you have a whole set of pictures!  : D

Also, I know I didn't really explain the exact set up, so if you don't get it, I can easily draw a picture and post how you would set it up.  : D

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Re: New Photographer. Need suggestions :)
« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2011, 06:38:41 PM »