April 16, 2014, 11:02:06 AM

Poll

I am most likely to...

smite someone I disagree with
1 (1.9%)
applaud someone who makes me laugh
5 (9.3%)
smite someone that hijacks a thread
0 (0%)
applaud someone that provides good technical info
11 (20.4%)
smite someone who belittles others
18 (33.3%)
applaud someone that makes a good point
19 (35.2%)

Total Members Voted: 54

Author Topic: Applaud or smite?  (Read 10599 times)

TexPhoto

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Re: Applaud or smite?
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2011, 06:46:48 PM »
It would be interesting to see a users "ratio" of smites/applause.

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Re: Applaud or smite?
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2011, 06:46:48 PM »

pwp

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Re: Applaud or smite?
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2011, 06:47:51 PM »
To smite or not to smite...this is the question. Your Applaud/Smite index does effect your CR credibility.

At first I felt the system was open to unfair reactive usage and there is no doubt a percentage of smites are delivered in a passionate, later regretted moment. I have delivered one smite, and later wished I could take it back. I felt a bit gutless smiting someone behind their back. I guess we could do it with a PM.

However, with the Karma system in place, it definitely plays a hand in the tone of posts & responses, and keeps unregulated "flames" to a minimum. Nobody wants dozens of smites against their names. I've been tempted from time to time to bang out a reactive response to a post, but the smites that may have followed would diminish my CR credibility. So I hold back. I have one mystery smite against me. It would have been nice to know why.

When I see my applaud number go up it's a little win...someone has benefited in some way from my post.

Changes to the system? How about a second chance before delivering a smite, much the same as a Delete warning on the computer..."Do you really want to Smite this person?"

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elflord

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Re: Applaud or smite?
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2011, 06:51:57 PM »
I'm kinda curious what criteria or philosophy people use in choosing to applaud or smite someone?

Personally I try to go easy on the smites limiting them to those who post with personal attacks or vulgarity.  There are times I'm tempted to smite someone who has such a polar opposite opinion from me, but as along as the discussion is kept productive and not personal I try to refrain.

Applauding for me is for people who make a particularly useful or insightful post or make me laugh.

Also, what would people thing about an "audit trail" for applauding and smiting, such that people have a level of accountability for their social interactions?

I agree with those who think that the feature isn't terribly helpful.

Some problems with the system:

(1)  you "applaud" or "smite" the poster, not the post. As was pointed out here, this makes the feedback less constructive.

(2) Not only do I think feedback should be tied to a post, I'd like the posts to be scored (as they are on slashdot for example).

(3) I think there needs to be a cap on how much karma, positive or negative, one can accumulate with a single post. I see way too much of people who make positive contributions on a regular basis and get kicked to the curb over one moderately disagreeable or controversial post.

(4) I don't think you should be aloud to smite or applaud in a thread in which you post.

While there seems to be a consensus that "smites" should be used sparingly, the evidence seems to be that they are used quite liberally. For example, most of the respondents in this thread have a substantial amount of negative karma -- posters "uncofused", "Mt Spokane Photography" for example make an overwhelmingly positive contribution here and yet are about 1:2-1:3 smites to applause.

I don't really see the point of the system -- it does in some sense make explicit which members are "senior" in terms of volume and quality of their output, but pecking orders of this nature inevitably emerge regardless.  On the slashdot forum (or similar busy forums), such systems can be useful to simply filter out bad posts (or filter in the highlights). On a smaller forum like this one, it doesn't tell us anything we didn't know already and the excessive smiting adds an unnecessary element of unpleasentness. Is it really a good thing for the forum to  provide a way to attack someone elses character anonymously ?
« Last Edit: December 16, 2011, 06:55:28 PM by elflord »

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Re: Applaud or smite?
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2011, 07:17:03 PM »
At what point does one get banned from being smited?  I wouldn't worry about the "applaud or smite" thingy unless there's a "you're excommunicated" number attached to the system. I'm new here and got my 11 smites because I made an innocuous joke about winning the current contest--"I won, I won!!" I wrote (including a winky emoticon ). Smite abusers? Yes there are! Therefore, I'm wearing my smites proudly--11 and counting!
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Re: Applaud or smite?
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2011, 07:32:02 PM »
At what point does one get banned from being smited?  I wouldn't worry about the "applaud or smite" thingy unless there's a "you're excommunicated" number attached to the system. I'm new here and got my 11 smites because I made an innocuous joke about winning the current contest--"I won, I won!!" I wrote (including a winky emoticon ). Smite abusers? Yes there are! Therefore, I'm wearing my smites proudly--11 and counting!


No one gets banned due to the number of smites.  We do not see who posted them, and cannot adjust or reset the number of them.

There are a minimum number of posts required before a applaud or smite can be issued, so we do not have new members signing up and immediately issuing "Smites"

There is another option, and thats to set the cumlative total rather than the positive or negative totals.  It could be merely shut off as well.

CR guy will be the one who changes this if he thinks its necessary.  I occasionally tweak the minimum number of posts required to keep you guessing, and to keep someone from abusing that information.  There is also a minimum time between applauds or smites that can is set. 


AG

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Re: Applaud or smite?
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2011, 09:44:51 PM »
Would it at all be possible to just remove the negative and keep the positive?

This way people that contribute can be seen as the ones with the better rep/karma.

There is not stigma of negative attached to them then.

Then if someone doesn't like someone they can just use the "ignore" feature* in the forum instead of smiting every post they make etc.

*= yes i know this is the way it should be but lets face it people can be lazy and its easier to smite than to go through the rigmarole of setting up ignoring.
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Meh

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Re: Applaud or smite?
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2011, 11:10:49 PM »
I think applauding and smiting each have their place but the smiting is probably abused.  Totally agree with everyone who said smiting should not be used simply because you disagree with someone or even think they're just plain wrong on a point.   I have smited a couple times for what I see as a personal attack against me or even against another and I have written a reply stating my view and indicated -1 right in my comment, if I'm going to smite someone I have no problem announcing it.

Personally, I think I'm quite thin skinned and it bothers me when I get smited when I believe I've only attempted to make helpful contributions but clearly the smiter didn't think so and they are entitled to their opinion.  I may have been smited a few times for opening a technical can of worms which, ok, maybe I deserved it  :P

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Re: Applaud or smite?
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2011, 11:10:49 PM »

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Re: Applaud or smite?
« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2011, 12:07:38 AM »
@Meh - keep your positive outlook and thin skin.  Don't let others negativity bring you down!!!!!!
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Re: Applaud or smite?
« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2011, 02:48:19 AM »
When I'm Smited, I'd appreciate knowing why :o ???

I'll applaud someone if they make a good point,
 I'll smite someone who is just obviously trying to stir up trouble.

There's some posters out there are very smite-happy (I'll probably pick up a few extra for this comment which will illustrate my point perfectly).
« Last Edit: December 17, 2011, 06:39:25 AM by MazV-L »

Jettatore

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Re: Applaud or smite?
« Reply #24 on: December 17, 2011, 07:00:02 AM »
Closed mindedness, not being able to ever admit when you are wrong or when the other person might have some valid points even if you don't fully agree, and in general just acting like a child when someone doesn't unanimously agree with you all are deserving of smites.  I give out props to people who share information/teaching/skills of the trade, etc.. or just when I see someone do something kind/cool.  I smite when people defend marketing decisions because our system is corrupt enough as it is and there is no way to honestly defend 'planned obsolescence'.  I don't smite because of the person ever, I smite based only on the post itself and only the specific post in question, but I suspect there are a lot of people on here that are much more petty than that and carry on personal grudges.  There's also a lot of cool people on here who have not just taught me a thing or two, but have shown me when I was wrong and didn't make me feel awful for it, or those who I have seen been able to admit when they learned something and didn't throw a fit like a sitcom character.

Sunnystate

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Re: Applaud or smite?
« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2011, 08:21:52 AM »
Last time I checked this was just a forum, do we have to be always so seriously pompous about our self?
Smite/ applaud is nothing more than just a bit of innocent fun, tiny bit of "power" and it should be up to everyone discretion how they are used.

Sanitizing everything really will make life boring, and internet will lose most important appeal: freedom, spontaneity and independence.

Cheers, and keep smiting and applauding while you still can!
:)
« Last Edit: December 17, 2011, 08:33:50 AM by Sunnystate »

thepancakeman

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Re: Applaud or smite?
« Reply #26 on: December 17, 2011, 08:54:37 AM »
... is nothing more than just a bit of innocent fun, tiny bit of "power"...

Funny, that sounds almost exactly like the response from the teacher in yesterday's news who wrote "stupid" in permanent marker on a student's forehead. 

Yes, it's a forum, and no, people should not take it too seriously.  But the reality is that some people do place value/self worth in their on-line reputations, and even that "tiny bit of power" comes with responsibility.  Do you choose to do good, or do harm?  And IMHO "innocent fun" never involves insulting, tearing down, or belittling someone else.

Or even better, do you take responsibilities for your actions?  I love Meh's approach--if you applaud or smite, post it and own up to it.  I'm definitely adopting that approach from now on.  +1 for Meh!

KeithR

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Re: Applaud or smite?
« Reply #27 on: December 17, 2011, 09:07:39 AM »
It's all a bit infantile, isn't it?

"I don't like what he said but I can't win the argument, so I'll "smite" him instead..."

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Re: Applaud or smite?
« Reply #27 on: December 17, 2011, 09:07:39 AM »

unfocused

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Re: Applaud or smite?
« Reply #28 on: December 17, 2011, 12:18:22 PM »
Quote
It's all a bit infantile, isn't it?

It's like any tool. In infantile hands, it is infantile. In mature hands, it's a useful and helpful tool.

Use it to help monitor and manage your online reputation.

If you have either a small number of both applauds and smites, or a small number of posts, don't worry about it. The sample size is too small to mean anything and likely to be skewed by a single unfortunate post or a small number of  "smite-ers."

If you've got a fair number of smites and applauds, say an aggregate total of 50-100, look at the ratio and use it to gauge your reputation. It's like a political candidate's approval rating. At a minimum, you want to be in the positive numbers. Ideally, you might get around a 3-2 or even a 5-3 ratio of applauds to smites. If so, you know you have a pretty decent reputation on the forum.

If you are underwater or at about 50/50, you might want to reflect on your posts. Ask yourself if you are being rude or dismissive to others, are you posting reasoned opinions or solid information? Or, are you making a lot of "drive-by" comments that are either uninformed or denigrate others?

The sample is non-scientific, but the larger the sample size the more accurate the rating is likely to be. I would say that anyone who has a few hundred posts and an aggregate of applauds and smites that exceeds 50 or so can get a pretty good idea how others on the forum feel about him or her.  Some people may not care and may even take pride that they are unpopular, but I assume most people want to maintain a good reputation among a group of people that in some ways is a peer group.

Okay, so for me personally, who do I smite and who do I applaud?

I applaud people who are helpful when I ask a question (that's just common courtesy).

I applaud people who offer unsolicited tips that I find helpful or who seem to go out of their way to help newcomers.

I applaud people who offer reasoned, well-thought out arguments, especially if they are espousing an opinion that is contrary to conventional wisdom.

I am much more generous with newcomers than with old hands, especially if the newcomer is generating undeserved smites.

I smite people who are rude or dismissive to others, even if they are technically correct. There is too much internet bullying and it's my way of sending them a message.

I smite people who express ridiculous opinions solely for the purpose of stirring things up and causing problems.

I smite obvious trolls.

I am more harsh on those who post a lot, because they should know better and, especially, if their incessant posting is aimed at stifling or demeaning newer participants.

"These are may principles and if you don't like them, I have others."– Groucho Marx

« Last Edit: December 17, 2011, 12:24:50 PM by unfocused »
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Re: Applaud or smite?
« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2011, 01:10:16 PM »
Quote
It's all a bit infantile, isn't it?

It's like any tool. In infantile hands, it is infantile. In mature hands, it's a useful and helpful tool.

I don't think it's useful at all. Surely we're all grown up and intelligent enough to guage which posters are worth reading and which aren't. And, most of us should be able to take a hint when others object to our own views and shouldn't need some arbitrary ranking system to give us false feedback.

I collected 6 or 7 smites for linking to the "throw my 7D in the dustbin" video. I didn't make the video, I didn't say that I agreed with the video, I only found it amusing and somewhat informative. Yet, here my reputation is -"under water" because of that one link.

The karma system has become something akin to that famous sociological experiment whereby the university students kept giving electric shocks to their peers. There's no repercussion for being mean, so one can push the button capriciously and maliciously without damaging his or her own reputation. One person with an axe to grind can smite another poster once every two hours. Under this system- ONE troll could destroy one legitimate reputation in 2 or 3 days.

And that's useful?
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Re: Applaud or smite?
« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2011, 01:10:16 PM »