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Author Topic: Canon Files a Patent for a Bunch of Lenses.  (Read 12326 times)

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon Files a Patent for a Bunch of Lenses.
« Reply #30 on: December 17, 2011, 06:00:13 PM »
I could certainly see a short EF-S prime as a normal lens for APS-C.  As for the 50/1.8 II update, that's one of Canon three top-selling lenses. Check out the 'updates' to the other two of the top three - the EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS II and the EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS II.  No optical changes, just marginally cheaper production costs (even a small savings means big profit for the number of units sold).

Earlier this year, Canon hit a couple of sales milestones - 50 million EOS bodies and 70 million EF lenses (which includes EF-S).  What does that mean?  An average of 1.4 lenses per camera.  Far and away, the most popular current lenses in addition to the 18-55 kit lens, are the EF-S 55-250 and the 50/1.8 II. To me, that suggests they probably sell relatively few non-L EF primes (50/1.8 notwithstanding).  The 35/2 doesn't seem terribly popular, despite being 'normal' on APS-C. Since it's build and performance are similar to the 50/1.8 II, the far lower sales of the 35/2 are likely due to its higher price tag (cheap compared to most lenses, but still 3x the cost of the 50/1.8 II).

So, personally I think that if Canon does release an EF-S 28/30/35mm lens, it won't be the f/1.4 USM lens people who frequent this forum would probably prefer, but would likely cost well north of $400, perhaps $500-600.  Instead, I think they'd telease an f/1.8 non-USM lens costing a bit over $200.
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Re: Canon Files a Patent for a Bunch of Lenses.
« Reply #30 on: December 17, 2011, 06:00:13 PM »

dilbert

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Re: Canon Files a Patent for a Bunch of Lenses.
« Reply #31 on: December 17, 2011, 07:17:44 PM »
Well, the only non-L EF prime that Canon has ever refreshed is the 50mm f/1.8 -- and they simply made it all plastic!  >:(

I am really hoping these are EF lenses, as I want a 50mm f/1.4 II with Ring USM.  A shorter MFD would be nice, too.  :D

A EF 50/1.4 II with Ring USM would be nice, but probably closer to the Sigma 1.4's price than the current Canon price :(

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Re: Canon Files a Patent for a Bunch of Lenses.
« Reply #32 on: December 17, 2011, 07:29:30 PM »
Anyone know when they'll roughly release the 50mm 1.4 and the 85's? Like a rough estimate? Early next year or late 2012?

These are patents, not products.  Canon has close to 2500 patents published per year, so obviously, only a small percentage ever see the light of day as products (and many are not intended to, but rather to constrain the competition).

Which should not be surprising - Canon is a huge company with a very disperse product portfolio.

Quote
The 85/1.2 II is relatively recent, and Canon hasn't updated any non-L EF primes except the 50/1.8 II, and that was to make it cheaper to produce, and was before dSLRs were a consumer product.  Today's 'typical' consumer wants zoom lenses and/or cheap lenses (<$250), and uses an APS-C camera. So, I honestly doubt there is much of a market-driven need to update the non-L EF primes (except perhaps a 50/1.8 III for even lower production costs of that very popular lens).

The market is different now. If Canon were to bring out a 50/1.4 II that was a successor to the very popular 50/1.4 that we have now, it has a very strange place to fit into the market. As it is, there are those who prefer the 50/1.8 for its IQ over the 1.4, never mind its price. So cheaper to produce would not necessarily gain them any more market share. Rather, the competition for the 50/1.4 is now coming from the likes of Sigma whose 50/1.4 is 30% (excluding current sales prices) more but delivers better IQ and in an age where people on the internet are pixel peeping, maybe they are having increased difficulty in selling it?

ecka

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Re: Canon Files a Patent for a Bunch of Lenses.
« Reply #33 on: December 17, 2011, 08:46:57 PM »
I could certainly see a short EF-S prime as a normal lens for APS-C.  As for the 50/1.8 II update, that's one of Canon three top-selling lenses. Check out the 'updates' to the other two of the top three - the EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS II and the EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS II.  No optical changes, just marginally cheaper production costs (even a small savings means big profit for the number of units sold).

Earlier this year, Canon hit a couple of sales milestones - 50 million EOS bodies and 70 million EF lenses (which includes EF-S).  What does that mean?  An average of 1.4 lenses per camera.  Far and away, the most popular current lenses in addition to the 18-55 kit lens, are the EF-S 55-250 and the 50/1.8 II. To me, that suggests they probably sell relatively few non-L EF primes (50/1.8 notwithstanding).  The 35/2 doesn't seem terribly popular, despite being 'normal' on APS-C. Since it's build and performance are similar to the 50/1.8 II, the far lower sales of the 35/2 are likely due to its higher price tag (cheap compared to most lenses, but still 3x the cost of the 50/1.8 II).

So, personally I think that if Canon does release an EF-S 28/30/35mm lens, it won't be the f/1.4 USM lens people who frequent this forum would probably prefer, but would likely cost well north of $400, perhaps $500-600.  Instead, I think they'd telease an f/1.8 non-USM lens costing a bit over $200.

IMHO, if someone really thinks that a $100 lens isn't cheap enough, then perhaps he should buy a cheap P&S camera instead of DSLR :). 50/1.8III doesn't make sense to me, at all. I hope the new one will have USM in it.
Hmm, EF-S 28/30/35mm f/1.8 non-USM, very unlikely. I think that non-USM primes are history. How many of those were released in the last 10 years? Zero?
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neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon Files a Patent for a Bunch of Lenses.
« Reply #34 on: December 17, 2011, 09:55:35 PM »
IMHO, if someone really thinks that a $100 lens isn't cheap enough, then perhaps he should buy a cheap P&S camera instead of DSLR :). 50/1.8III doesn't make sense to me, at all. I hope the new one will have USM in it.
Hmm, EF-S 28/30/35mm f/1.8 non-USM, very unlikely. I think that non-USM primes are history. How many of those were released in the last 10 years? Zero?

Zero in the last 10 years. The number of non-L EF primes in the last 10 years with USM? Also zero.  It's quite possible that non-L EF primes are history, with or without USM.  Consider - since the introduction of the EF-S mount, Canon has released just two non-L EF lenses, the two 70-300mm zooms (a focal range where the EF-S format offers no real benefit), no primes. Everything else has been EF-S or L. When they were designed, the non-L EF lenses were for consumers - they also shot FF (film) and affordable lenses were necessary. That need is now fulfilled by EF-S lenses.

As for the 50/1.8 II, I'm not suggesting that Canon would decrease production costs with a MkIII and then pass the savings on to customers.  Like the 18-55 IS II and 55-250 II, the prices for the new lenses would stay the same or increase slightly (they can tout 'improved AF algorithms' which are basically free from Canon's perspective).  The only point of reducing production costs would be increased profit per unit. 
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ecka

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Re: Canon Files a Patent for a Bunch of Lenses.
« Reply #35 on: December 18, 2011, 07:43:45 AM »
IMHO, if someone really thinks that a $100 lens isn't cheap enough, then perhaps he should buy a cheap P&S camera instead of DSLR :). 50/1.8III doesn't make sense to me, at all. I hope the new one will have USM in it.
Hmm, EF-S 28/30/35mm f/1.8 non-USM, very unlikely. I think that non-USM primes are history. How many of those were released in the last 10 years? Zero?

Zero in the last 10 years. The number of non-L EF primes in the last 10 years with USM? Also zero.  It's quite possible that non-L EF primes are history, with or without USM.  Consider - since the introduction of the EF-S mount, Canon has released just two non-L EF lenses, the two 70-300mm zooms (a focal range where the EF-S format offers no real benefit), no primes. Everything else has been EF-S or L. When they were designed, the non-L EF lenses were for consumers - they also shot FF (film) and affordable lenses were necessary. That need is now fulfilled by EF-S lenses.

As for the 50/1.8 II, I'm not suggesting that Canon would decrease production costs with a MkIII and then pass the savings on to customers.  Like the 18-55 IS II and 55-250 II, the prices for the new lenses would stay the same or increase slightly (they can tout 'improved AF algorithms' which are basically free from Canon's perspective).  The only point of reducing production costs would be increased profit per unit.
Actually, most of them were released in the last 10 years (all except EF 100mm f/2 USM in 1991) :)
EF 50mm f/1.4 USM - 1993 (not a ring type, but still :) )
EF 20mm f/2.8 USM - 1992
EF 28mm f/1.8 USM - 1995
EF 85mm f/1.8 USM - 1992
EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro - 2000
However, I agree with you, there may be no future for non-L EF primes. Only L and EF-S will remain, but there is no future for non-USM EF-S primes as well. Canon yet have to make some cheap (affordable) EF-S primes, the market is starving for those. Current EF 28mm f/1.8 USM isn't any good for the price, Sigma 30/1.4 or Nikon 35/1.8 are much more attractive. IMHO Canon should discontinue all 5 non-L EF wide primes (EF 20mm f/2.8 USM, EF 24mm f/2.8, EF 28mm f/2.8, EF 35mm f/2, EF 28mm f/1.8 USM) and release some new EF-S USM primes instead. Like EF-S 20mm f/1.8 USM, EF-S 30mm f/1.8 USM and maybe an UWA - EF-S 8mm f/(something) USM.
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neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon Files a Patent for a Bunch of Lenses.
« Reply #36 on: December 18, 2011, 09:52:09 AM »
Actually, most of them were released in the last 10 years (all except EF 100mm f/2 USM in 1991) :)
EF 50mm f/1.4 USM - 1993 (not a ring type, but still :) )
EF 20mm f/2.8 USM - 1992
EF 28mm f/1.8 USM - 1995
EF 85mm f/1.8 USM - 1992
EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro - 2000

Ummmm...are you currently worried about the dreaded Y2K bug?   :P   I'm not sure which time zone or alternate reality you're living in, but where I am (and I suspect, the rest of the world as well), it's currently 2011.  Counting backward from this year (it's a good thing I have 10 fingers!) shows that 'the last 10 years' comprise 2001-2010.  Your list of lenses is entirely pre-2001.

+1 on the need for a set of wide-to-normal EF-S primes!
« Last Edit: December 18, 2011, 09:56:18 AM by neuroanatomist »
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Re: Canon Files a Patent for a Bunch of Lenses.
« Reply #36 on: December 18, 2011, 09:52:09 AM »

ecka

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Re: Canon Files a Patent for a Bunch of Lenses.
« Reply #37 on: December 18, 2011, 10:01:34 AM »
Actually, most of them were released in the last 10 years (all except EF 100mm f/2 USM in 1991) :)
EF 50mm f/1.4 USM - 1993 (not a ring type, but still :) )
EF 20mm f/2.8 USM - 1992
EF 28mm f/1.8 USM - 1995
EF 85mm f/1.8 USM - 1992
EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro - 2000

Ummmm...are you currently worried about the dreaded Y2K bug?   :P   I'm not sure which time zone or alternate reality you're living in, but where I am (and I suspect, the rest of the world as well), it's currently 2011.  Counting backward from this year (it's a good thing I have 10 fingers!) shows that 'the last 10 years' comprise 2001-2010.  Your list of lenses is entirely pre-2001.

+1 on the need for a set of wide-to-normal EF-S primes!
I'm sorry, you are right. I must be too tired right now and 10 or 20 years doesn't make any difference to me :D. Let's make it 20 ;).
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hutjeflut

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Re: Canon Files a Patent for a Bunch of Lenses.
« Reply #38 on: December 18, 2011, 10:12:35 AM »
still waiting and hoping for a 50mm 1.8 with much better focus then the current 1.8 :(

i love it opticly but the focus is just rubbish...

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Re: Canon Files a Patent for a Bunch of Lenses.
« Reply #39 on: December 18, 2011, 05:43:25 PM »
Interesting discussion about market share and profitability. I think most of it is right. We won't see any more non L EF primes. EF-S? Sure.

Canon really can do no wrong with it's latest rounds of L lenses, say since 2008. Thing is most of them are super teles and out of reach for mere mortals. Where Canon should innovate on the current prime lens lineup is in corner sharpness wide open, chromatic aberrations, and vignetting. I'd pay more and carry heavier primes if Canon could make these lenses mightier and even add IS.

I would love to be able to add a few primes to my bag including:

35 1.4 IS, better corner sharpness, lower CA, faster AF
85 1.4 IS, faster focus than 85 1.2, better corner sharpness wide open, lower CA

I'd pay $2k each for these lenses.




JR

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Re: Canon Files a Patent for a Bunch of Lenses.
« Reply #40 on: December 18, 2011, 06:55:41 PM »
I'd pay more and carry heavier primes if Canon could make these lenses mightier and even add IS.

I would love to be able to add a few primes to my bag including:

35 1.4 IS, better corner sharpness, lower CA, faster AF
85 1.4 IS, faster focus than 85 1.2, better corner sharpness wide open, lower CA

I'd pay $2k each for these lenses.

I would buy them too (at least the 35mm) but I dont think we will see IS on any L prime from Canon below the 100mm mark.  I certainly would like that to some degree because it could be useful for taking video handheld, but I dont think it will happen.
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Re: Canon Files a Patent for a Bunch of Lenses.
« Reply #40 on: December 18, 2011, 06:55:41 PM »