July 17, 2018, 01:48:57 PM

Author Topic: Do More Mega Pixels translate in a richer photo?  (Read 31201 times)

sanj

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *********
  • Posts: 3063
Do More Mega Pixels translate in a richer photo?
« on: February 27, 2015, 03:20:32 PM »
I am very confused and would appreciate any thoughts:
Will the extra pixels of the new cameras make images look better - sharper/richer/subconsciously more impact full than 5d3 on my computer screen or a 2ft by 3ft print?
I think it should. The extra mp is not just for zooming in.
Your thoughts pls...

canon rumors FORUM

Do More Mega Pixels translate in a richer photo?
« on: February 27, 2015, 03:20:32 PM »

sunnyVan

  • EOS 7D Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 573
Re: Do More Mega Pixels translate in a richer photo?
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2015, 04:00:30 PM »
I'd tell you that better post processing skill would give you very noticeable improvements. Much more so than a higher megapixel camera
24-70 2.8L II, 16-35 F4L IS, 135L,  600EX-RT, 430EX RT, EOS M IR converted, efm 11-22, Fuji X-T2, Fujinon 35 F2, Fujinon 16 1.4, Fujinon 90 F2, Fujinon 56 1.2, Fujinon 50-140 2.8, Fujinon 100-400

Halfrack

  • EOS 5D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 659
Re: Do More Mega Pixels translate in a richer photo?
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2015, 04:15:25 PM »
Yes, in a few different ways:

-Higher MP allows you to crop in a lot more - turn what would have been a much smaller image, into one with more detail

-Higher MP also allows you to print larger at equal dpi - at 300 pixels per inch, you get ~ 2x the size

-Higher MP in the 33x44mm chip size is actually more helpful, due to the pixel sites being larger than they are in a 35mm FF 24x36mm - bigger pixel sites can equal better light capturing
"Me owning a lens shop is kind of like having an alcoholic bar tender." - Roger Cicala

ajfotofilmagem

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • ********
  • Posts: 2232
Re: Do More Mega Pixels translate in a richer photo?
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2015, 04:32:16 PM »
If someone show arguments proving that I'm wrong, I'll swallow my words, :-X but ...

Whereas the only variable is the amount of megapixel who jumped from 22 to 50, will not see any improvement on a computer screen without expand the viewing.
The additional resolution would NOT be noticeably in a 4K computer monitor. Only a 8K monitor would show a more sharp image in a 50 megapixel photo, or printing on paper larger than 1 meter.

Obviously, the new Canon 5DS / 5DSr may further improvements in color filter, bit depth, dynamic range, etc.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2015, 06:24:58 PM by ajfotofilmagem »

K

  • EOS 6D Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 371
Re: Do More Mega Pixels translate in a richer photo?
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2015, 04:33:58 PM »
More megapixels can provide more detail. "Can" is conditional of course, because that depends on the lens, technique and of course the quality of the sensor. More megapixels isn't necessarily better. Usually is, but that is also because the increase in megapixels came along with other advancements in technology.

Detail is all you get.

Sharper? No. Sharp has to do with technique. A 1 megapixel image can be just as sharp as a 50mp. It will have less detail is all.

Richer? No. Rich, bold, dynamic images - the ones you often see pros produce, are a result of excellent technique. This involves mastery of LIGHTING, the single most important factor. After that, post-processing skills and methods. Good glass is important. Camera body is probably 3rd-4th in the hierarchy of IQ importance.

Sensors love light. It isn't the quantity of light, it is the quality of light once an adequate quantity has been reached. Starve a sensor of light... and detail, vividness, contrast, and all other factors which makes the image quality pop with brilliance just goes away.

Fact is, there is a world of world-class photos out there, all done with older generations of DSLR.



Skulker

  • EOS 6D Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 413
  • PP is no vice and as shot is no virtue
Re: Do More Mega Pixels translate in a richer photo?
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2015, 04:38:45 PM »
Yes, in a few different ways:

-Higher MP allows you to crop in a lot more - turn what would have been a much smaller image, into one with more detail

-Higher MP also allows you to print larger at equal dpi - at 300 pixels per inch, you get ~ 2x the size

-Higher MP in the 33x44mm chip size is actually more helpful, due to the pixel sites being larger than they are in a 35mm FF 24x36mm - bigger pixel sites can equal better light capturing


I'll be interested to see if there is any real improvement.


But your first point is exactly what the OP did not want to consider.


Oh and so is your second point.


Your third point is news to me I hadn't realized that the chip size was larger than FF. Well you live and learn.


There will be a lot of people trying to prove that they know if there will be any real improvement. I won't be listening to them. I will look at the images and make my own mind up.
If you debate with a fool onlookers can find it VERY difficult to tell the difference.

ajperk

  • EOS Rebel T7i
  • ****
  • Posts: 107
Re: Do More Mega Pixels translate in a richer photo?
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2015, 04:59:36 PM »
Yes, in a few different ways:

-Higher MP allows you to crop in a lot more - turn what would have been a much smaller image, into one with more detail

-Higher MP also allows you to print larger at equal dpi - at 300 pixels per inch, you get ~ 2x the size

-Higher MP in the 33x44mm chip size is actually more helpful, due to the pixel sites being larger than they are in a 35mm FF 24x36mm - bigger pixel sites can equal better light capturing


I'll be interested to see if there is any real improvement.


But your first point is exactly what the OP did not want to consider.


Oh and so is your second point.


Your third point is news to me I hadn't realized that the chip size was larger than FF. Well you live and learn.


There will be a lot of people trying to prove that they know if there will be any real improvement. I won't be listening to them. I will look at the images and make my own mind up.

From the specs that were announced, I think the sensor size is the same as all normal Canon full frame CMOS sensors.

The comment may be in regards to digital medium format sensors. I think much of the advantage in image quality in medium format comes from the fact that as you are using a larger imaging surface, for the same framing of photo, the details themselves that are projected on the sensor are larger. This takes some of the pressure off of lens resolving capability. If you make as well resolving a lens for a medium format as for a 35mm format sensor (obviously taking into account the need for a larger image circle) then the medium format image will look more detailed.

Of course, I don't own or shoot medium format, so perhaps I am overlooking something.
Canon EOS 6D, EF 24-105mm f/4L, EF 100mm f/2.8 USM, EF 35mm f/2 IS USM, EF 24mm f/2.8 IS USM, EF 50mm f/1.8 STM

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Do More Mega Pixels translate in a richer photo?
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2015, 04:59:36 PM »

ajfotofilmagem

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • ********
  • Posts: 2232
Re: Do More Mega Pixels translate in a richer photo?
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2015, 04:59:51 PM »
-Higher MP in the 33x44mm chip size is actually more helpful, due to the pixel sites being larger than they are in a 35mm FF 24x36mm - bigger pixel sites can equal better light capturing
I understand that you referred to the 50 megapixel medium format cameras, compared to full frame 50 megapixel Canon in 5DS 5DSr.

9VIII

  • EOS-1D X Mark II
  • *******
  • Posts: 1843
Re: Do More Mega Pixels translate in a richer photo?
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2015, 05:16:27 PM »
I actually think that my 4MP computer screen is about halfway from giving the full detail in a 14MP image (produced by the T3/1100D).
My guess is that you only need half the screen resolution to effectively see everything in an image due to the Bayer filter and AA filter (for now I'm just going to pretend that all sensors have one).
So viewing those pictures on a 4K monitor (8MP) should be as good as looking at a high quality full resolution print.
Once we have 5K monitors your 5D3 isn't even going to fully saturate the image a PC is capable of out -putting.
Right now I can't tell the difference between a T3 image and 5D2 image when both are fit to screen, but the sad reality is still that we need to massively oversample images to get the same quality per pixel seen in other formats.
Once 8K hits the market even the 5Ds is only going to be barely good enough.

On a full resolution print it should absolutely make a difference, I just need to print something before I can say for sure.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2015, 05:18:37 PM by 9VIII »

chauncey

  • EOS 7D Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 564
Re: Do More Mega Pixels translate in a richer photo?
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2015, 07:32:45 PM »
My response is completely based on an apples to apples comparison...same photographer, same glass,
same generation camera body, same post processing, same everything excepting...difference in MP.

If you take that 50 MP image and, for whatever reason, downsize it to a 22 MP size...you will have a
better IQ image than you would have had taking that same image with a 22 MP body.

Note that I did not use the term crop, but said...downsize.
The things you do for yourself die with you, the things you do for others live forever.
 A man's worth should be judged, not when he basks in the sun, but how he faces the storm.
http://1x.com/member/chauncey43

canonistic

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 23
Re: Do More Mega Pixels translate in a richer photo?
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2015, 07:52:06 PM »
I had one of the original canon 1d cameras. The 1d mark 2 was just released. I HAD to have one. Think of the improvement from 4 megapixels to 8. I ordered one and did this little test:
(I shoot baseball).
I stood behind home plate with a 400mm f2.8 lens and shot the pitcher warming up with the original 1d
Then I switched bodies to the mark 2.
Shot the same pitcher from the same spot.

I could not wait to see the images. Imagine the increased detail! Everything would be twice as good!

When I got home, I opened both images in two different windows and zoomed in on the pitchers belt buckle.
And looked and looked. Side by side.
While you would pick the mark 2 as better, you had to REALLY study them to see any difference at all.
It was extremely close. BARELY different.
I wound up returning the camera.
If I couldn't see any difference with a casual glance, it wasn't much of an improvement.

TexPhoto

  • EOS 5DS R
  • ******
  • Posts: 1221
Re: Do More Mega Pixels translate in a richer photo?
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2015, 08:16:42 PM »
On a 24x36" print?  Why not try it?  You don't have to make 2 24x36 prints.  You can take your 5DIII image, make it 24x36 in photoshop, then crop a 4x6" piece out, and print that.  Not do the same for a 5Ds pic.  TO have the same pic, maybe go to a camera story and ask if you can take a pic with your lens/memory card...  Or get a sample pic off the wen, maybe one of those still life type photos, and make your own similar still life...

I think the difference will be insignificant.  I think your money is better spend on lenses, flash or maybe a 7DII if you are well stocked in the lens dept.

I am not going to tell you lenses have megapixels. (those people are crazy), but as we go from 4 to 6 to 22 to 50MP, we are getting diminishing returns because the lenses are only so sharp.  Same thing for teleconverters.   They made a ton of sense when we had low MP cameras, but now, how much more detail is there to get?
« Last Edit: March 01, 2015, 10:23:53 AM by TexPhoto »

Halfrack

  • EOS 5D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 659
Re: Do More Mega Pixels translate in a richer photo?
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2015, 08:50:00 PM »
-Higher MP in the 33x44mm chip size is actually more helpful, due to the pixel sites being larger than they are in a 35mm FF 24x36mm - bigger pixel sites can equal better light capturing
I understand that you referred to the 50 megapixel medium format cameras, compared to full frame 50 megapixel Canon in 5DS 5DSr.

Yes, but 33x44 is the crop version of medium format (like the 40mp microlensed Kodak chip, etc) most the Dalsa/Kodak stuff is 36x48.

As for the 24"x36" prints, the 50MP will have a much better output, as you're translating ~272 pixels to 1 inch of paper, so close to the 300dpi that your eye can see.  I've had folks pull out a loop and flashlight to peak, the files really hold up well.

I'm in line to rent the 5DsR once it's out, and will compare it to the Pentax 645Z ad the Hasselblad H4D-50.  It's one of those where depending on the situation, each has their strengths.  E-TTL should be huge, with the B1's and such :)
"Me owning a lens shop is kind of like having an alcoholic bar tender." - Roger Cicala

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Do More Mega Pixels translate in a richer photo?
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2015, 08:50:00 PM »

sanj

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *********
  • Posts: 3063
Re: Do More Mega Pixels translate in a richer photo?
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2015, 12:06:16 AM »
Yes of course technique, lighting etc are most important. But I am taking about everything else being equal, will doubling the MP create better IQ pictures? If it does not then Canon made these new cameras to basically print large?

Thank you ALL for your insights.

JClark

  • EOS Rebel 300D
  • ***
  • Posts: 64
Re: Do More Mega Pixels translate in a richer photo?
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2015, 12:32:48 AM »
Yes of course technique, lighting etc are most important. But I am taking about everything else being equal, will doubling the MP create better IQ pictures? If it does not then Canon made these new cameras to basically print large?

Thank you ALL for your insights.

It's a hard question to answer because it's hard to isolate the megapixels.  I shoot a 1dx as well as an a7r and a couple of Phase one backs, and while I feel that the higher mp solutions are superior in terms of iq, I can't tell you how much of the cause is the sensor vs the lens vs the pixel size etc.   I can say, with certainty, that the ultimate quality in the MF system is superior, but I certainly look forward to the canon 50 mp sensor so i can eliminate another variable ;)

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Do More Mega Pixels translate in a richer photo?
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2015, 12:32:48 AM »