Thoughts From Canon on a Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera

[Meh]

,,, your comment betrays itself in stating that mirrorless offers superior performance but immediately follow with an example where it does not.

You are misusing the word betray. I said that mirrorless already offers superior performance EXCEPT in case of action sports photography. I think most people understand that refers to fast moving targets, be it an athlete, a kid, a dog or a car.

I did preface my response by saying "you may not have meant it that way" because I felt you had some good points but were stretching a bit.  Unfortunately, your original comment didn't have the "EXCEPT" in it that you now add. 

Your exact comment was:

"because that technology offers superior performance, size and price."  [notice the full stop here]  You then went on to say "A few action sports photographers will hang on to their mirror boxes until sensor based follow focus outperforms DSLR phase detect."

I doubt most people take "a few action sports photographers" to include people who shoot their kids or dog running around the park.  Some boudoir photographers might like the fast AF too, oh wait that could be an action sport too. 

[moreorless]

What mirrorless may become and what it is today are two very different propositions, today I think its clear that most users who want multiple speicalist lenses still preffer DSLR's. As I said my feeling is that alot of its sucess is based on the lack of larger sensor fixed lens alternatives.

You could argue that Canon would be better served by "getting on the horse" but equally I think you could argue that by holding off there giving themselves more flexibility. Much of the tech for an interchangeble lens system can be tested and perfected on a fixed lens system afterall and it means Canon isnt tied to a certain sensor size/lens mount long term in what is still a fast changing market.

[Rocky]

What mirrorless may become and what it is today are two very different propositions, today I think its clear that most users who want multiple speicalist lenses still preffer DSLR's. As I said my feeling is that alot of its sucess is based on the lack of larger sensor fixed lens alternatives.

You could argue that Canon would be better served by "getting on the horse" but equally I think you could argue that by holding off there giving themselves more flexibility. Much of the tech for an interchangeble lens system can be tested and perfected on a fixed lens system afterall and it means Canon isnt tied to a certain sensor size/lens mount long term in what is still a fast changing market.

Agree. until Canon can give us Fast AF on non-DSLR bodies. It makes no sense for Canon to jump into "large sensor" "mirrorless". Technically, Canon is already in "mirrorless" with the "G" and "S" series.

[Bengt Nyman]

I think that most users who want multiple lenses still prefer DSLR's. A lot of its success is based on the lack of larger sensor fixed lens alternatives.

The fact that most high IQ cameras have interchangeable lenses is because it gives both manufacturer and user more flexibility. Imagine that most cameras had fixed lenses. The camera manufacturer would have to offer at least a dozen different versions of each camera type. Not to speak of us poor users. I would have to carry six cameras with fixed lenses to many of the events.
If you are that enamored with fixed lenses, just leave yours on.
 

[Bengt Nyman]

Until Canon can give us Fast AF on non-DSLR bodies. It makes no sense for Canon to jump into "large sensor" "mirrorless". Technically, Canon is already in "mirrorless" with the "G" and "S" series.

Don't forget the landscape and studio camera market. It needs a large, high IQ sensor with accurate, interactive preview, accurate rather than fast focus, and it benefits greatly from freedom of mirror and shutter vibrations.

[Rocky]

Until Canon can give us Fast AF on non-DSLR bodies. It makes no sense for Canon to jump into "large sensor" "mirrorless". Technically, Canon is already in "mirrorless" with the "G" and "S" series.

Don't forget the landscape and studio camera market. It needs a large, high IQ sensor with accurate, interactive preview, accurate rather than fast focus, and it benefits greatly from freedom of mirror and shutter vibrations.

It will be interesting to see an APS-C (or smaller sensor) mirrorless to be use by landscape and studio photographer.

[moreorless]

The fact that most high IQ cameras have interchangeable lenses is because it gives both manufacturer and user more flexibility. Imagine that most cameras had fixed lenses. The camera manufacturer would have to offer at least a dozen different versions of each camera type. Not to speak of us poor users. I would have to carry six cameras with fixed lenses to many of the events.
If you are that enamored with fixed lenses, just leave yours on.

My point was that the low sales of mirrorless lenses suggest that the majority of the market are not interested in flexability but rather image quality. If a mirrorless kit lens is good enough for them then a fixed lens that likely has a superior zoom range, better appature and more macro ability will be aswell.

They would miss out on some business but equally they may well gain some from users who don't want the hassel of multiple lenses aswell as a potentially more pocketable camera. Whats more they wouldnt end up stepping on the feet of there own DSLR business

[ecka]

My point was that the low sales of mirrorless lenses suggest that the majority of the market are not interested in flexability but rather image quality. If a mirrorless kit lens is good enough for them then a fixed lens that likely has a superior zoom range, better appature and more macro ability will be aswell.

They would miss out on some business but equally they may well gain some from users who don't want the hassel of multiple lenses aswell as a potentially more pocketable camera. Whats more they wouldnt end up stepping on the feet of there own DSLR business

...or maybe sales are low because those lenses are not good enough. Another reason - many users are adapting cheap old manual lenses like Canon FD or M42, while others are using their expensive Leica M lenses. Could someone share some numbers on mirrorless lens adapters sales?

[bobquincy]

After 10 years of Canon dSLRs (from D30 to Rebel Xsi) I got tired of waiting for Canon to produce a smaller/lighter system (could be mirrorless or not) and bought into a Panasonic micro 4/3 system to replace my dSLRs.  I have a Canon G11 and it is a nice camera but image quality is nowhere near the Panasonic G3, it is probably just a limitation of the sensor size.

On a recent trip I used focal lengths from 7 to 175 (35mm equivalent of 14-350).  It is unlikely that a fixed lens camera can offer anywhere near this range, none do yet (that I am aware of).  Another lens that is in my plans is a f/1.7 or faster, no P&S offers this plus a zoom lens.  Again, the G series are good cameras but can't offer the flexibility of interchangeable lens cameras.

A super G appears to be a real niche camera, appealing to a small group who want good image quality and are ok with a small zoom range and limited aperture.  They will probably have to accept power zoom too.  If the price is anywhere near that of a good micro 4/3 I can't see Canon selling many of these and that is why I doubt Canon will produce such a camera.  I would be glad if they did though, more choices is always good!

Size and weight matter, carrying the G3 and three lenses was far less bulk than my Rebel and 2 lenses.  As for myself, Canon will have to make something a lot like a micro 4/3 to get my business back, now that I have switched to Panasonic I really like it.

[Rocky]

The fact that most high IQ cameras have interchangeable lenses is because it gives both manufacturer and user more flexibility. Imagine that most cameras had fixed lenses. The camera manufacturer would have to offer at least a dozen different versions of each camera type. Not to speak of us poor users. I would have to carry six cameras with fixed lenses to many of the events.
If you are that enamored with fixed lenses, just leave yours on.

My point was that the low sales of mirrorless lenses suggest that the majority of the market are not interested in flexability but rather image quality. If a mirrorless kit lens is good enough for them then a fixed lens that likely has a superior zoom range, better appature and more macro ability will be aswell.

They would miss out on some business but equally they may well gain some from users who don't want the hassel of multiple lenses aswell as a potentially more pocketable camera. Whats more they wouldnt end up stepping on the feet of there own DSLR business

That is exactly the reason why I have suggested Canon should upsize the S100. Give it a 4/3 sensor, FAST AF, Keep f2.0 at wide side,make it faster at tele with a better lens at the same time.

[John MARK]

On some occasions, shutter noise is pretty much annoying : when trying to shoot "natural" situations at a family meeting, at a classical music concert etc.

I tried the Panasonic G3 and Sony NEX-5 and was very disappointed to hear such noisy shutters on both cameras, actually quite similar to a 60D's clicks.

So for unobtrusive shooting, I'll keep my trusty G12 until Canon comes out with something significantly better in terms of IQ AND just as silent in operation, with articulated screen of course and maybe a 6x or 7x  zoom (interchangeable lenses not needed  for that type of camera).

[moreorless]

That is exactly the reason why I have suggested Canon should upsize the S100. Give it a 4/3 sensor, FAST AF, Keep f2.0 at wide side,make it faster at tele with a better lens at the same time.

For something the size of the S series I'd guess the lens would be prohibtively large with a sensor that size. They could I spose go with a prime or a shorter zoom but the G series seems better suited to upping the sensor size.

[Rocky]

That is exactly the reason why I have suggested Canon should upsize the S100. Give it a 4/3 sensor, FAST AF, Keep f2.0 at wide side,make it faster at tele with a better lens at the same time.

For something the size of the S series I'd guess the lens would be prohibtively large with a sensor that size. They could I spose go with a prime or a shorter zoom but the G series seems better suited to upping the sensor size.

"G" is a betetr handling camera with a handgrip. You are right. Thta will allow the lens to stick out slightly from the body. Give it a shorter range zoom will help to keep it smaller also.

[briansquibb]

SWMBO has a G12 because she prefers the more chunky feel to the thin S100. She also stipulated that an optical viewfinder was essential

[Bengt Nyman]

"large sensor" "mirrorless".
It will be interesting to see an APS-C (or smaller sensor) mirrorless to be use by landscape and studio photographer.

Large sensor means full frame or larger.