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Author Topic: Thoughts From Canon on a Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera  (Read 22485 times)

elflord

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Re: Thoughts From Canon on a Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera
« Reply #60 on: December 23, 2011, 07:15:01 PM »
I understand the "high IQ camera in a pocket", but I don't understand the "DSLR alternative in a pocket" or "big sensor + small lens, to make it fit in a pocket" (which, I think, isn't possible without IQ sacrifice). Photography is not about putting things in your pockets. Nice small camera bag is a much better way to carry your fragile, expensive, dust and moisture sensitive photographic equipment.
I do like the idea of mirrorless cameras, but I'm against compromising the IQ and ergonomics while making them pocketable. I like to use LiveView for landscapes, portraits and macro (I'm not an action shooter really). Make it FF in a decent size body with all the buttons and wheels + nice vari-angle LCD + big and powerful battery + wireless flash control + some lens adapters - and I'll buy it.

Thankfully, the products are there to keep both camps happy, and there are legitimate uses for both. My GF2 does fit (with a big bulge) in a pants pocket with the 20mm f/1.7, and fits more easily in a jacket or cargo pants pocket. Of course the GF series made some compromises (in ergonomics and later in features) to push the size down. The larger cameras like Panasonics G3 or GH series are more ergonomic.

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Re: Thoughts From Canon on a Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera
« Reply #60 on: December 23, 2011, 07:15:01 PM »

Bengt Nyman

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Re: Thoughts From Canon on a Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera
« Reply #61 on: December 24, 2011, 02:54:27 AM »
Actually, some zooms do out-perform prime lenses. :)
You mean that some zooms out-perform some prime lenses.

Bengt Nyman

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Re: Thoughts From Canon on a Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera
« Reply #62 on: December 24, 2011, 03:07:01 AM »
The way Sony have done it is by reducing the amount of light in by 30%
That is correct on their older Alpha series with TMT (Translucent Mirror Technology), but it's wrong on their NEX series which uses no mirror at all, unless you use the adapter with phase detection AF sensor for older A-mount lenses.

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Re: Thoughts From Canon on a Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera
« Reply #63 on: December 24, 2011, 06:05:04 AM »
Actually, some zooms do out-perform prime lenses. :)
You mean that some zooms out-perform some prime lenses.
I think it's more like "some primes are really bad and most zooms are even worse than those" :)
FF + primes !

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Re: Thoughts From Canon on a Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera
« Reply #64 on: December 24, 2011, 07:09:26 AM »
I understand the "high IQ camera in a pocket", but I don't understand the "DSLR alternative in a pocket" or "big sensor + small lens, to make it fit in a pocket" (which, I think, isn't possible without IQ sacrifice). Photography is not about putting things in your pockets. Nice small camera bag is a much better way to carry your fragile, expensive, dust and moisture sensitive photographic equipment.
I do like the idea of mirrorless cameras, but I'm against compromising the IQ and ergonomics while making them pocketable. I like to use LiveView for landscapes, portraits and macro (I'm not an action shooter really). Make it FF in a decent size body with all the buttons and wheels + nice vari-angle LCD + big and powerful battery + wireless flash control + some lens adapters - and I'll buy it.

Thankfully, the products are there to keep both camps happy, and there are legitimate uses for both. My GF2 does fit (with a big bulge) in a pants pocket with the 20mm f/1.7, and fits more easily in a jacket or cargo pants pocket. Of course the GF series made some compromises (in ergonomics and later in features) to push the size down. The larger cameras like Panasonics G3 or GH series are more ergonomic.
Well, I doubt that Canon would start making M4/3 cameras :)
APS-C sensor is a bit larger than M4/3 (like 25% larger image circle) while FF has around 4 times larger sensor area, therefore lenses must be larger too.
M4/3 are nice cameras, but I think that Sony NEX are better. However, I don't find myself comfortable with their controls, menus, accessories and style.
FF + primes !

moreorless

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Re: Thoughts From Canon on a Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera
« Reply #65 on: December 25, 2011, 07:46:47 AM »
One observation I'd make for the fixed/interchangble lens arguement for mirrorless is the relative body and lens sales of these system. The various m43 systems, The NEX's etc bodies are selling pretty well, not aswell as DSLR's but there  in the same ballpark but the same isnt true for lenses at all where Canon, Nikon and to a lesser degree Sony's conventional SLR lenses still dominate.

To me that says that the real drive in the growth of the mirrorless market isnt so much based on users who want speicalists lenses but rather those who want superior IQ to that offer on compacts.

Rocky

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Re: Thoughts From Canon on a Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera
« Reply #66 on: December 25, 2011, 01:23:32 PM »
One observation I'd make for the fixed/interchangble lens arguement for mirrorless is the relative body and lens sales of these system. The various m43 systems, The NEX's etc bodies are selling pretty well, not aswell as DSLR's but there  in the same ballpark but the same isnt true for lenses at all where Canon, Nikon and to a lesser degree Sony's conventional SLR lenses still dominate.

To me that says that the real drive in the growth of the mirrorless market isnt so much based on users who want speicalists lenses but rather those who want superior IQ to that offer on compacts.
Canon should find ways to get FAST AF (like Nikon V1 ) build an APS-C sensor compact mirrorless with just 2 or 3 small basic lenses and a EF/EF-S adapter. This will get Canon on the map of mirrorless.

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Re: Thoughts From Canon on a Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera
« Reply #66 on: December 25, 2011, 01:23:32 PM »

moreorless

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Re: Thoughts From Canon on a Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera
« Reply #67 on: December 25, 2011, 02:36:35 PM »
Canon should find ways to get FAST AF (like Nikon V1 ) build an APS-C sensor compact mirrorless with just 2 or 3 small basic lenses and a EF/EF-S adapter. This will get Canon on the map of mirrorless.

They could but its a very crowded market where as like I said I see larger sensor fixed lens mirrorless as a fertile and as yet largely untapped market.

Personally I'm supprized it took so long for any of the big guns to move beyond the typical 1/1.7″ sensor thats been in high end compacts/bridges for years considering how intense conmpetision has been. Not only does it potentially offer what I believe the majority of users are after in a smaller/cheaper package but ties the manifacturer down far less than an interchangeble lens system does.

Rocky

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Re: Thoughts From Canon on a Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera
« Reply #68 on: December 25, 2011, 03:37:51 PM »
Canon should find ways to get FAST AF (like Nikon V1 ) build an APS-C sensor compact mirrorless with just 2 or 3 small basic lenses and a EF/EF-S adapter. This will get Canon on the map of mirrorless.

They could but its a very crowded market where as like I said I see larger sensor fixed lens mirrorless as a fertile and as yet largely untapped market.

Personally I'm supprized it took so long for any of the big guns to move beyond the typical 1/1.7″ sensor thats been in high end compacts/bridges for years considering how intense conmpetision has been. Not only does it potentially offer what I believe the majority of users are after in a smaller/cheaper package but ties the manifacturer down far less than an interchangeble lens system does.
Canon should "upsize" the S100 give it a 4/3 sensor and throw in FAST AF at the same time. Something like that will satisfy most of the people: large sensor, fast lens, reasonable zoom range, pocketable. Hopefully, the price will be reasonable too.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2011, 12:08:59 AM by Rocky »

Bengt Nyman

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Re: Thoughts From Canon on a Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera
« Reply #69 on: December 25, 2011, 07:09:42 PM »
I am looking for a high resolution, high ISO, full frame mirrorless DSLE with a high quality EVF. I would prefer to buy it from a company with a wide choice of excellent lenses. I would like to buy it from Canon since I already have a wide choice of their excellent full frame lenses. But first I would like Canon to copy Sony's brilliant Tri-Nav controls and incorporate focus peaking, panorama, HDR and a few goodies of their own.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2011, 07:13:49 PM by Bengt Nyman »

Caps18

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Re: Thoughts From Canon on a Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera
« Reply #70 on: December 26, 2011, 12:02:37 AM »
A live view only 5Dm2 would be interesting.  I wonder how much thinner they could make it though?
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Bengt Nyman

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Re: Thoughts From Canon on a Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera
« Reply #71 on: December 26, 2011, 06:42:16 AM »
A live view only 5Dm2 would be interesting.  I wonder how much thinner they could make it though?
If you leave out the full frame mirror you save approximately one inch. If you hook up a pair of projection eye glasses it might make an cool street camera.

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Re: Thoughts From Canon on a Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera
« Reply #72 on: December 26, 2011, 01:31:53 PM »
To me that says that the real drive in the growth of the mirrorless market isnt so much based on users who want speicalists lenses but rather those who want superior IQ to that offer on compacts.
... as well as those who don't need the OVF, mirror, PDAF and extra price for these things they never use.
Not making it an interchangeable lens camera would be a big mistake.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2011, 01:33:50 PM by ecka »
FF + primes !

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Re: Thoughts From Canon on a Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera
« Reply #72 on: December 26, 2011, 01:31:53 PM »

Meh

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Re: Thoughts From Canon on a Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera
« Reply #73 on: December 26, 2011, 01:55:07 PM »
A live view only 5Dm2 would be interesting.  I wonder how much thinner they could make it though?
If you leave out the full frame mirror you save approximately one inch. If you hook up a pair of projection eye glasses it might make an cool street camera.

If it would still be FF and use an EF mount then wouldn't the flange to sensor distance have to remain the same?   I believe it would and, if so, then they could not make the body any thinner by removing the mirror.

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Re: Thoughts From Canon on a Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera
« Reply #74 on: December 26, 2011, 02:38:07 PM »
A live view only 5Dm2 would be interesting.  I wonder how much thinner they could make it though?
If you leave out the full frame mirror you save approximately one inch. If you hook up a pair of projection eye glasses it might make an cool street camera.

If it would still be FF and use an EF mount then wouldn't the flange to sensor distance have to remain the same?   I believe it would and, if so, then they could not make the body any thinner by removing the mirror.
Yes they could, the EF lens adapter would keep your lens at the right distance.
FF + primes !

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Re: Thoughts From Canon on a Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera
« Reply #74 on: December 26, 2011, 02:38:07 PM »