How many of you would....

[AprilForever]

Pay $2995 for a 1d4 aps-h sensor in a 7d body?

No, I wouldn't. But, I would pay $4299 for an APS-C sensor in a 1D X body (with some noise improvements, 1D X-like AF but with an f/8 center point, 1D X metering and ergonomics).

Anyone else?

I would try to.... might have to wait for a while until it got a bit cheaper, but I would be hugely interested in it...

[BaconBets]

Do we just leave out that the aps-h doesn't accept ef-s lenses? Canon will never give up their main group of ef-s lens buyers.. 7 with H sensor will never happen... plus you get no wideangle..

I was just saying APS-H in a 7d "type" body. I am not saying you have to change the whole 7d line. Call it a 6d...call it whatever.
Give up their ef-s buyers? What $3000+ camera uses ef-s lenses now?

[neuroanatomist]

Neuro, I can't dispute that if an APS-C were released with 1d/5d level performance, there would certainly be interest in it. But right now that is a hypothetical sensor that would require new R&D and lead time. The 1d4 sensor is real and ready to go...and until the 1dx is released, is still Canon's best for events, sports and movies

It wouldn't have FF performance, but an incremental bump from current (keeping 18 MP) seems reasonable.

I'm not so sure it's as easy as dropping the sensor in, at least not for $3K. Would they just reuse the 1DIV AF (pro grade), give it the same (pro) 300K shutter durability, same VF coverage?  I think lots of redesign would be necessary to use a 'ready to go' sensor, or they'd have to charge a pro price (>$4K), which without an actual pro build and sealing, seems a hard sell.

[AprilForever]

Pay $2995 for a 1d4 aps-h sensor in a 7d body?

No, I wouldn't. But, I would pay $4299 for an APS-C sensor in a 1D X body (with some noise improvements, 1D X-like AF but with an f/8 center point, 1D X metering and ergonomics).

Anyone else?

Neuro, I can't dispute that if an APS-C were released with 1d/5d level performance, there would certainly be interest in it. But right now that is a hypothetical sensor that would require new R&D and lead time. The 1d4 sensor is real and ready to go...and until the 1dx is released, is still Canon's best for events, sports and movies

If Nikon were to recycle their 12mp d3s sensor into the 700s with movie functionality in 2012, Canon would have their hands full.

I'm not certain why... The benefits of the D3s are more than just sensor...

[BaconBets]

Pay $2995 for a 1d4 aps-h sensor in a 7d body?

No, I wouldn't. But, I would pay $4299 for an APS-C sensor in a 1D X body (with some noise improvements, 1D X-like AF but with an f/8 center point, 1D X metering and ergonomics).

Anyone else?

Neuro, I can't dispute that if an APS-C were released with 1d/5d level performance, there would certainly be interest in it. But right now that is a hypothetical sensor that would require new R&D and lead time. The 1d4 sensor is real and ready to go...and until the 1dx is released, is still Canon's best for events, sports and movies

If Nikon were to recycle their 12mp d3s sensor into the 700s with movie functionality in 2012, Canon would have their hands full.

I'm not certain why... The benefits of the D3s are more than just sensor...

That was true of the D3 vs the D700 as well...yet the D700 tore it up. History would repeat if Nikon chose to do this.
Most semi-pros are willing to compromise on everything except image quality for a 2nd tier camera.

[BaconBets]

Neuro, I can't dispute that if an APS-C were released with 1d/5d level performance, there would certainly be interest in it. But right now that is a hypothetical sensor that would require new R&D and lead time. The 1d4 sensor is real and ready to go...and until the 1dx is released, is still Canon's best for events, sports and movies

It wouldn't have FF performance, but an incremental bump from current (keeping 18 MP) seems reasonable.

I'm not so sure it's as easy as dropping the sensor in, at least not for $3K. Would they just reuse the 1DIV AF (pro grade), give it the same (pro) 300K shutter durability, same VF coverage?  I think lots of redesign would be necessary to use a 'ready to go' sensor, or they'd have to charge a pro price (>$4K), which without an actual pro build and sealing, seems a hard sell.

There would be some work involved for sure, but I think it would be taking the guts, making some compromises in the hardware and tweaking vs. building a whole new cam from the ground up. I have to believe Canon is capable of this for $3k if Nikon has already done it.

[jasonsim]

I for one would not want an APS-H sensor in a 7D II or 6D.  I use the 7D for sports and wildlife and welcome the 1.6x crop factor.  I use the 5D II for everything else.  I really do not see the need for 1.3x crop.  I'd say put in the 45 point AF into the 7DII and keep it a 1.6x and give it 10 FPS.  That would suite me just fine.

[BaconBets]

I for one would not want an APS-H sensor in a 7D II or 6D.  I use the 7D for sports and wildlife and welcome the 1.6x crop factor.  I use the 5D II for everything else.  I really do not see the need for 1.3x crop.  I'd say put in the 45 point AF into the 7DII and keep it a 1.6x and give it 10 FPS.  That would suite me just fine.

It was not so much "needing" a 1.3x crop as it was hunting high end image quality.
Of course if Canon put a 1dx sensor in there I would buy it yesterday, but that will happen when they start putting M3 engines in VW Jettas.
And no APS-C sensor to date can hang. (Although the D7000 1.5x is pretty damn good)

But I will give it to you, if they released a 7d2 with pro IQ APS-C, 45 AF and 10 FPS for a 7d price....would have to buy one!! LOL     (please refer to above comment about Jettas)

[Viggo]

Do we just leave out that the aps-h doesn't accept ef-s lenses? Canon will never give up their main group of ef-s lens buyers.. 7 with H sensor will never happen... plus you get no wideangle..

I was just saying APS-H in a 7d "type" body. I am not saying you have to change the whole 7d line. Call it a 6d...call it whatever.
Give up their ef-s buyers? What $3000+ camera uses ef-s lenses now?

No room in the lineup for that camera. Why don't you just buy my mk4 when I FINALLY get the 1d X with proper AF and FF?

You see what happened with the 60d, everybody started bitching about it being less of a camera than a 50d, but what should Canon do to place a camera between the 7d and the 550d... So if they should both have a 1d X, a "7d" with H-sensor, and the 5d3 AND the 7d2, how would you spec them to make prices in between each other. Doesn't make sense.. If the 5d3 get proper AF, you have it too close to the 1d X, this is what happened, with IQ of the 5d2 and the 1ds3, they killed each other. And the 7d is a BIG seller, and so is the 5d2. Most people don't need 10 or 12 fps, or that insane tracking capibility, well, they need it, they just don't want to shell out that kind of money. And if they do, they buy a 1d X which is MUCH cheaper than most people thought it would be, comparing to the 1ds3. They will end up too close to each other, or you feel that one of these camera is only spec'd to fit a market, not to actually be proper camera filling a gap. Why do you think Canon killed the H-sensor? mk3 owners or would be mk4 owners started getting the 7d, Canon needs to make space, not fill gaps as I see it. Should they also release a camera between the g12 and s95/s100?

IF you get a 7d type body with H-sensor and 7-8 fps, I would still buy a used mk4, because it was made to be as good as it gets... And if you haven't opened up a 1d and see the inside, you really have no idea how stuffed it is to make it work like they do. And when you see what they have done with the 1d X, and only two stop better iso, it takes some serious engineering to move on from each better model, and then to half all that in size in $3000 dollar body? "the technology exist"? I don't think so...

[AprilForever]

I for one would not want an APS-H sensor in a 7D II or 6D.  I use the 7D for sports and wildlife and welcome the 1.6x crop factor.  I use the 5D II for everything else.  I really do not see the need for 1.3x crop.  I'd say put in the 45 point AF into the 7DII and keep it a 1.6x and give it 10 FPS.  That would suite me just fine.

Indeed.

[wickidwombat]

for me its the form factor, 1D are nice dont get me wrong but if I could get all the 1D4 into a 7D body that would be awesome. and as to APS-C vs APS-H, I think any of the people that use 1D3 or 1D4 cameras will agree IQ of the APS-H sensors is in a different class to the current 18MP APS-C. I really like to use the 16-35 on an APS-H sensor as a walk around lens as its awesome quality and small and light, so a lighter body would be great to go with this.
I could then keep my 70-200 on the 5D2 most of the time and the 16-35 on the APS-H and have everything covered for weddings in a 2 camera setup

There is a market for smaller lighter PRO grade cameras not everyone wants the massive form factor of the 1D. Yes its impressive and everyone goes ooo ahh thats  a big camera but the convenience of the smaller form is great, current battery tech means you get great life with the 5D2 and 7D batteries. I personally dont care that much for the vertical grip.

of course if a new APS-C sensor came out that was as good as the current 1D4 APS-H sensor (same performance from ISO 100 to ISO6400, in a new 7D2 i would snap that up.

[briansquibb]

of course if a new APS-C sensor came out that was as good as the current 1D4 APS-H sensor (same performance from ISO 100 to ISO6400, in a new 7D2 i would snap that up.

The bokeh from an APS-C is never going to be as good as the APS-H or full frame

[neuroanatomist]

of course if a new APS-C sensor came out that was as good as the current 1D4 APS-H sensor (same performance from ISO 100 to ISO6400, in a new 7D2 i would snap that up.

The bokeh from an APS-C is never going to be as good as the APS-H or full frame

Question - how does sensor size affect the quality of the OOF blur?

[briansquibb]

Quality?

You can tell a crop by the blotchiness of the background

[briansquibb]

As I understand it:

From wickedwombat
"if you get a lens that works on both FF and crop let say a 17-40 f4L then fit it to each and frame the shot exactly the same so that both images filled each cameras view to the same extents. You would be standing closer to the subject using the FF and further away using the crop. Because you are closer to the subject you will have a shallower depth of field than the same lens taking the same shot on the crop since using the crop you are further away"

Therefore the background is more OOF.

In my experience the 5DII and 1D4 give a  much smoother background than the 7D