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Author Topic: DPR reviews d5500 and says it is a ISO-invariant camera.  (Read 28296 times)

ritholtz

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DPR reviews d5500 and says it is a ISO-invariant camera.
« on: April 03, 2015, 12:25:48 AM »
They added a new section for Raw DR: Exposure Latitude & ISO-invariance which is very interesting. Iso 100 image pushed +5EV in post processing is same as correctly exposed image at iso 3600. Looks like one can shoot at iso 100 without worrying about proper exposure and correct it later. They compared it with 7d2/70d/6d.
According to DPR, following is the advantage of underexposing image:

"The idea is that if the scene has highlights that are clipping at ISO 3200, you will be better off by keeping the same aperture value and shutter speed, but turning the camera back down to ISO 200 and brighten it later, from Raw. This way you can get essentially the same shadow noise performance but with an extra 4EV of highlight information. And this is made possible by the incredibly low noise floor of what we're calling an 'ISO-invariant' camera."

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-d5500/9

Does it mean exposure triangle is going to be redundant? I am still not able to understand how pushing using software preserve highlights. If some one is going to underexpose by 5EV in order to preserve highlights from clipping when we push +5EV using software, we start clipping highlights again right?



« Last Edit: April 03, 2015, 12:30:51 AM by ritholtz »
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DPR reviews d5500 and says it is a ISO-invariant camera.
« on: April 03, 2015, 12:25:48 AM »

Aglet

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Re: DPR reviews d5500 and says it is a ISO-invariant camera.
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2015, 01:46:39 AM »
You shoot at the lower iso, underexposing enough to prevent non-specular hilites from being clipped.
You then raise everything up in post so that you can get a normal looking image as tho you'd exposed it properly.
You can control how much you want to raise the levels in post so you decide.

This only works well with ABC cameras (Nikon Sony Pentax Fuji Olympus .. see who's missing ? ;) )

BTW - my LCS just got a shipment of D5500s in so I got to hold one... certainly a different shape than the previous 5x00 bodies, deeper grip, thinner body.   I like it, it's a bit small but it's reasonably comfortable in the hand and it's got class-leading IQ. Looks like it's another winner for Nikon.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2015, 01:49:20 AM by Aglet »

KeithBreazeal

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Re: DPR reviews d5500 and says it is a ISO-invariant camera.
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2015, 02:31:33 AM »
I use the same basic concept at motorcycle shows.  So much chrome, detail and reflections to deal with that exposing for the highlights and digging out the shadows is the only way to deal with it.  5D III ISO 4000

DXOP split screen David's Bagger win © Keith Breazeal by Keith Breazeal Photography, on Flickr

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« Last Edit: April 03, 2015, 02:38:09 AM by KeithBreazeal »
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Sporgon

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Re: DPR reviews d5500 and says it is a ISO-invariant camera.
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2015, 02:37:43 AM »
I use the same basic concept at motorcycle shows.  So much chrome, detail and reflections to deal with that exposing for the highlights and digging out the shadows is the only way to deal with it.  5D III ISO 4000

DXOP split screen David's Bagger win © Keith Breazeal by Keith Breazeal Photography, on Flickr

And you've probably lifted a stop or so ?

The comparison 'tool' on DPR going to four, five and six stops is just absurd. Its doing it for the sake of it and irrelevant to photography unless one doesn't intend to meter at all, and even then it's overkill.

A shame digital photography has come down to playing with six stop pushes.

pwp

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Re: DPR reviews d5500 and says it is a ISO-invariant camera.
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2015, 03:24:01 AM »
ISO Invariant? Sounds awesome. Wait and see.
We're still a little close to 1 April...

-pw

msm

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Re: DPR reviews d5500 and says it is a ISO-invariant camera.
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2015, 04:02:24 AM »
...
The comparison 'tool' on DPR going to four, five and six stops is just absurd. Its doing it for the sake of it and irrelevant to photography unless one doesn't intend to meter at all, and even then it's overkill.

A shame digital photography has come down to playing with six stop pushes.

It is just to demonstrate what is possible with new cameras. Being able to push several stops opens up new ways to shoot, instead of increasing ISO to reach a given shutter speed one has the alternative of underexposing and thus preserving information in the highlights which would be blown at high ISO. Why is that a shame, are you against progress? Or do you think it is a shame it gets too much attention on photography forums? In which case you are right. I like the new comparison tool though as it gives me more information about the tested cameras which will help me decide whether I want it or not.

sanj

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Re: DPR reviews d5500 and says it is a ISO-invariant camera.
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2015, 05:51:26 AM »
Someone somewhere someday will get into serious trouble by not exposing correctly.

Besides in many situations wildlife, sports, action shooters need to raise ISO not only because light is low but because they want faster shutter.

Having said the above, being able to expose for highlights and then being able to raise shadow details in post by 5 stops would be helpful in my kind of (harsh sunlight, cheetah under a tree 100 mts away, heavily backlit) photography. I wish my camera did that as well as other cameras. I use top of the line model of 'my' company.

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Re: DPR reviews d5500 and says it is a ISO-invariant camera.
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2015, 05:51:26 AM »

emko

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Re: DPR reviews d5500 and says it is a ISO-invariant camera.
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2015, 06:11:17 AM »
Someone somewhere someday will get into serious trouble by not exposing correctly.

Besides in many situations wildlife, sports, action shooters need to raise ISO not only because light is low but because they want faster shutter.

Having said the above, being able to expose for highlights and then being able to raise shadow details in post by 5 stops would be helpful in my kind of (harsh sunlight, cheetah under a tree 100 mts away, heavily backlit) photography. I wish my camera did that as well as other cameras. I use top of the line model of 'my' company.

any improvement in IQ is always welcome i don't know why Canon fanboys fight it so much? why don't Canon fanboys ask for lower DR? so we can do more bracketed shots? some how for them what Canon currently has is PERFECT yet we all know it could be better. What Canon has will not prevent you from making awesome photos its just that it makes it a bit harder then what the other brands have.

When i buy something i want the product to be better or equal to the another brand version, why do people want less DR? If the 5D4 does not improved in IQ why should i buy it?

Sporgon

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Re: DPR reviews d5500 and says it is a ISO-invariant camera.
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2015, 06:25:53 AM »
Someone somewhere someday will get into serious trouble by not exposing correctly.

Besides in many situations wildlife, sports, action shooters need to raise ISO not only because light is low but because they want faster shutter.

Having said the above, being able to expose for highlights and then being able to raise shadow details in post by 5 stops would be helpful in my kind of (harsh sunlight, cheetah under a tree 100 mts away, heavily backlit) photography. I wish my camera did that as well as other cameras. I use top of the line model of 'my' company.

any improvement in IQ is always welcome i don't know why Canon fanboys fight it so much? why don't Canon fanboys ask for lower DR? so we can do more bracketed shots? some how for them what Canon currently has is PERFECT yet we all know it could be better. What Canon has will not prevent you from making awesome photos its just that it makes it a bit harder then what the other brands have.

When i buy something i want the product to be better or equal to the another brand version, why do people want less DR? If the 5D4 does not improved in IQ why should i buy it?

And why don't the likes of yourself demand increases in colour differentiation,  getting colour resolution to equal luminosity resolution, equaling film in tonality, improving abrupt clipping to highlights ? Just a few things that the Sony tech is as behind on as Canon when compared with film, but no doubt you're not worried; you can lift shadows six stops. That's really going to make progress in digital IQ.

neuroanatomist

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Re: DPR reviews d5500 and says it is a ISO-invariant camera.
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2015, 06:41:51 AM »
When i buy something i want the product to be better or equal to the another brand version, why do people want less DR? If the 5D4 does not improved in IQ why should i buy it?



Here's a dollar, go buy a clue.   ::)

No one (at least, no one that I've seen) wants less DR.  At issue is personal priorities...what do you have to give up to get more DR?  Are the trade-offs worth it to you?  Or maybe you want more DR without giving up anything...in which case, I refer you to the proverb quoted by me old Irish Da, "Wish in one hand, sh!t in the other, and see which fills up fastest."

This only works well with ABC cameras (Nikon Sony Pentax Fuji Olympus .. see who's missing ? ;) )
It is just to demonstrate what is possible with new cameras.

Here's another example of what's possible with a new camera...who's missing now?

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sanj

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Re: DPR reviews d5500 and says it is a ISO-invariant camera.
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2015, 07:36:23 AM »
"what do you have to give up to get more DR?  Are the trade-offs worth it to you?"

I do not know what tradeoffs exist to get more DR. Would love to learn, if you can explain.

neuroanatomist

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Re: DPR reviews d5500 and says it is a ISO-invariant camera.
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2015, 07:49:30 AM »
"what do you have to give up to get more DR?  Are the trade-offs worth it to you?"
I do not know what tradeoffs exist to get more DR. Would love to learn, if you can explain.

To get more low ISO DR than Canon delivers, you need to choose a camera system other than Canon.  If you use a Canon system, you are presumably aware of the advantages it offers over other brands.  Alternatively, if you can't think of any advantages, then you should strongly consider switching if low ISO DR is important to you.
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ritholtz

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Re: DPR reviews d5500 and says it is a ISO-invariant camera.
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2015, 08:32:54 AM »
Are there any STM kind of lens for Nikon? Looks like Nikon crippled it by not including Aperture control during video and no exposure simulation for Live view. Video AF is too bad with bad focus pulling and very loud noise from lens.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ks9DCXUzq6I
« Last Edit: April 03, 2015, 08:35:42 AM by ritholtz »
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Re: DPR reviews d5500 and says it is a ISO-invariant camera.
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2015, 08:32:54 AM »

sanj

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Re: DPR reviews d5500 and says it is a ISO-invariant camera.
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2015, 08:37:42 AM »
"what do you have to give up to get more DR?  Are the trade-offs worth it to you?"
I do not know what tradeoffs exist to get more DR. Would love to learn, if you can explain.

To get more low ISO DR than Canon delivers, you need to choose a camera system other than Canon.  If you use a Canon system, you are presumably aware of the advantages it offers over other brands.  Alternatively, if you can't think of any advantages, then you should strongly consider switching if low ISO DR is important to you.

Ah. That way. Thanks. Understood. Instead of switching I will wait for Canon to fix the issue.

ritholtz

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Re: DPR reviews d5500 and says it is a ISO-invariant camera.
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2015, 08:44:56 AM »
I use the same basic concept at motorcycle shows.  So much chrome, detail and reflections to deal with that exposing for the highlights and digging out the shadows is the only way to deal with it.  5D III ISO 4000

DXOP split screen David's Bagger win © Keith Breazeal by Keith Breazeal Photography, on Flickr

And you've probably lifted a stop or so ?

The comparison 'tool' on DPR going to four, five and six stops is just absurd. Its doing it for the sake of it and irrelevant to photography unless one doesn't intend to meter at all, and even then it's overkill.

A shame digital photography has come down to playing with six stop pushes.

Yah. 70D does fine until +3EV push then noise kills it. Even with this Nikon sensor, +5EV push makes all details very soft. I think, it is just only emergency kind of thing rather than a normal practice.
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr144_0=canon_eos70d&attr144_1=nikon_d5500&attr144_2=canon_eos70d&attr144_3=nikon_d5500&attr146_0=100_0&attr146_1=100_0&attr146_2=100_3&attr146_3=100_3&normalization=full&widget=212&x=1.0510385590933806&y=0.9897473368676512

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr144_0=canon_eos70d&attr144_1=nikon_d5500&attr144_2=canon_eos70d&attr144_3=nikon_d5500&attr146_0=100_0&attr146_1=100_0&attr146_2=100_3&attr146_3=100_3&normalization=full&widget=212&x=0.8450124071714791&y=0.7022136670329668

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr144_0=canon_eos70d&attr144_1=nikon_d5500&attr144_2=canon_eos70d&attr144_3=nikon_d5500&attr146_0=100_0&attr146_1=100_0&attr146_2=100_5&attr146_3=100_5&normalization=full&widget=212&x=0.8875360114428805&y=0.5400431948558168





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Re: DPR reviews d5500 and says it is a ISO-invariant camera.
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2015, 08:44:56 AM »