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Author Topic: More Super G Series Talk  (Read 7897 times)

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More Super G Series Talk
« on: December 26, 2011, 11:49:24 AM »
The Super G Valentin Sama of DSLR Magazine wrote on his personal blog that Canon is working on a “Super G Series” camera.

This falls in line with previous posts here and here.

I was surprised how many people agreed with me about Canon not needing a mirrorless camera, but instead a high end PowerShot. The people that disagreed made great points about Canon being involved in what appears to be an emerging segment that is here to stay.

Source: [1K1] via [NL]

Canon G12 @ B&H for $379

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More Super G Series Talk
« on: December 26, 2011, 11:49:24 AM »

JR

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Re: More Super G Series Talk
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2011, 12:17:13 PM »
I cant wait for the next "Super G"!  It will make a perfect travel camera when you need to carry something in your pocket!   8)
1DX, 24mm f1.4L II, 35mm f1.4L, 50mm f1.2L, 85mm f1.2L II, 135mm f2L, 24-70mm f2.8L II, 70-200mm f2.8L IS II :  D800, D4, and a whole bunch of Nikon lenses

briansquibb

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Re: More Super G Series Talk
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2011, 12:39:47 PM »
Perhaps this is where the APS-H sensor will end up - that would walk all over the competition  ;D ;D

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Re: More Super G Series Talk
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2011, 12:46:50 PM »
Isn't the Powershot series Mirrorless?  My G11 does not have a mirror, but does have a optical viewfinder.  It does not have interchangable lenses.

If Canon put a fixed lens on it and called it a Mirrorless Camera, it would fit in with many of the others.  Personally, I prefer the zoom lens.

traveller

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Re: More Super G Series Talk
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2011, 01:09:24 PM »
If Canon put a fixed lens on it and called it a Mirrorless Camera, it would fit in with many of the others.  Personally, I prefer the zoom lens.

And that's the only problem; if you use a large sensor, you are stuck with either a fast prime, a slow zoom, or a massive lens (compared to the size of the camera).  For example, the Fuji X100 is great if you want a 35mm (equivalent) prime, if not it is worthless.  The whole point of interchangeable lenses on most 'mirrorless' (a poor name, if you ask me!) cameras, is that you can choose which of the lens options you wish to own, or to carry for a day's shooting. 

I don't own one of these cameras yet, partly because I have been waiting to see what Canon would bring to the party.  I like the idea of them because they are light enough to take with you when you're not planning a shoot, but want to have a camera with you in case the opportunity arises.  I'd rather have a 'coat pocket' size camera with DSLR image quality than a 'shirt pocket' size camera where I would always wish that I'd have had my DSLR with me. 

I also think that these cameras would be great for street photography -shooting from waist level with a tilting screen, where a large DSLR camera with an eye level viewfinder makes you stand out. 

In summary, a "Super G" would be great if it had an APS-C sensor with a 24-105mm (equivalent) f/2-2.8 zoom and was no bigger than the current G12, but the laws of physics are probably against this; so interchangeable lenses are the next best thing.   

Meh

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Re: More Super G Series Talk
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2011, 01:16:31 PM »
In summary, a "Super G" would be great if it had an APS-C sensor with a 24-105mm (equivalent) f/2-2.8 zoom and was no bigger than the current G12, but the laws of physics are probably against this; so interchangeable lenses are the next best thing.   

Those pesky laws of physics!  Can someone do something about that already!

takeapic

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Re: More Super G Series Talk
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2011, 02:41:46 PM »
So the Super G essentially will be a X10 or X100?

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Re: More Super G Series Talk
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2011, 02:41:46 PM »

Rocky

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Re: More Super G Series Talk
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2011, 03:03:10 PM »
In summary, a "Super G" would be great if it had an APS-C sensor with a 24-105mm (equivalent) f/2-2.8 zoom and was no bigger than the current G12, but the laws of physics are probably against this; so interchangeable lenses are the next best thing.   

Those pesky laws of physics!  Can someone do something about that already!
NO, our whole world, even the universe is governed by the law of physics. However, we can compromise. What if Canon upsize the S100 to be a 4/3 senor with FAST AF, then most people will be happy.

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Re: More Super G Series Talk
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2011, 03:24:06 PM »
As was mentioned before in previous posts, the so called 'mirrorless market' is so loosely defined that it includes cameras with/without viewfinder, popup flash, hotshoe and includes cameras with various sensor sizes, etc.  These permutations continue to be tweaked frequently by manufacturers.

Yet, I keep reading comments that Canon do not have a mirrorless strategy. In the midst of the various permutation that all the camera manufacturer throw out, why would Canon's move to throw a fixed lens into the mix be less of a strategy than the others?

As for zoom range, the G series already support tele and wide angle adapters... If the new G series camera would indeed have a 6.5x zoom lens (24-156mm equiv. according to some rumors), a set 0.7x and a 2x adapter would increase the range to ~ 16-312mm (sufficient for most people). Provided Canon makes the high quality adapters themselves.

On top of this, if Canon is able to improve the image quality and get it closer what the V1/J1 and m4/3 can do (judging from the 1/1.7" CMOS sensor of S100, I believe this is possible), maintain an f-stop of about f3.5 or f4 at the tele range so that it is not too slow when using tele-adapters and reduce the overall size of the camera, I think the G series is a viable competitor in the 'mirrorless market'. Oh yes, and add faster AF and operation speed to the list too.

As for sensor size, I am more practical. There is no way Canon can use a 4/3 like sensor without adding an elephant trunk of a lens to the camera. Thus, a 2/3" or 1" sensor would be enough to make me queue up overnight to buy the camera.

Meh

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Re: More Super G Series Talk
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2011, 03:25:03 PM »
In summary, a "Super G" would be great if it had an APS-C sensor with a 24-105mm (equivalent) f/2-2.8 zoom and was no bigger than the current G12, but the laws of physics are probably against this; so interchangeable lenses are the next best thing.   

Those pesky laws of physics!  Can someone do something about that already!
NO, our whole world, even the universe is governed by the law of physics. However, we can compromise. What if Canon upsize the S100 to be a 4/3 senor with FAST AF, then most people will be happy.

In case it wasn't clear... I was being sarcastic about doing something about the laws of physics.  :P

takeapic

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Re: More Super G Series Talk
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2011, 04:15:14 PM »
No, not really as I, like many, wouldn't consider it if it gets the same slow lens from the S100 and it's so-so performance.


NO, our whole world, even the universe is governed by the law of physics. However, we can compromise. What if Canon upsize the S100 to be a 4/3 senor with FAST AF, then most people will be happy.

Rocky

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Re: More Super G Series Talk
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2011, 05:39:56 PM »
No, not really as I, like many, wouldn't consider it if it gets the same slow lens from the S100 and it's so-so performance.


NO, our whole world, even the universe is governed by the law of physics. However, we can compromise. What if Canon upsize the S100 to be a 4/3 senor with FAST AF, then most people will be happy.

That is exacly why I use the term "compromise". Canon can alway make the lens faster and better with a lens bulging out of the body like the LX5 Or the G series or worst. Then it may not be pocketable anymore.  If we want everything plus the kitchen sink, then the new "mirroless may be as big as the Rebel.  Just look at the NEX 7. It has a thin boy. But is it pocketable with the zoom lens??
« Last Edit: December 26, 2011, 06:11:56 PM by Rocky »

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Re: More Super G Series Talk
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2011, 06:16:44 PM »
So what does Canon need to fix in a G series to compete with a mirrorless NEX-7?

The first thing that comes to my mind is the sensor. It needs to be APS-C. Or does it?

After that comes the lens. The "step zoom" lenses are not worth the trouble.

A couple of questions that need to be answered are...

- which comeras is a Super-G trying to sell against?
- what part of the market segement is the Super-G aimed at?

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Re: More Super G Series Talk
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2011, 06:16:44 PM »

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Re: More Super G Series Talk
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2011, 10:14:21 PM »
Quote
In summary, a "Super G" would be great if it had an APS-C sensor with a 24-105mm (equivalent) f/2-2.8 zoom and was no bigger than the current G12, but the laws of physics are probably against this; so interchangeable lenses are the next best thing.   

If you give up the APS-C sensor, then the laws of physics won't get in the way.

Possibly a more realistic option:
  • 28-105mm equivalent
  • f2-2.8 zoom
  • Sensor with same pixel density of the current APS-C but physically shaved down slightly to offer 12-14 mp.
  • "Classic" rangefinder styling (Canonet/Leica/Fuji) with eye-level viewfinder

pictures sharp. life not so much. www.unfocusedmg.com

worthmining

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Re: More Super G Series Talk
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2011, 01:54:26 AM »
Quote
In summary, a "Super G" would be great if it had an APS-C sensor with a 24-105mm (equivalent) f/2-2.8 zoom and was no bigger than the current G12, but the laws of physics are probably against this; so interchangeable lenses are the next best thing.   

If you give up the APS-C sensor, then the laws of physics won't get in the way.

Possibly a more realistic option:
  • 28-105mm equivalent
  • f2-2.8 zoom
  • Sensor with same pixel density of the current APS-C but physically shaved down slightly to offer 12-14 mp.
  • "Classic" rangefinder styling (Canonet/Leica/Fuji) with eye-level viewfinder

Just look at Nikon 1, if Canon also uses the CX sensor, and duplicate the fast auto focus Nikon 1 does, then a fast zoom starts at F2 on wide end, the rest can keep G12's design, that'll be a killer. 

I recently returned my Nikon 1 and bought s95 only to discover how much I hate its slow focusing (why am I even surprised). While I can tolerate a bit bigger size but not some big lens tubes like those Nikon 1 tried to sell me.  The idea of interchanged lens on this type of camera with a small sensor is simply pointless.  A super "G" would be my dream P&S or mirrorless whatever people want to call it.   

Come on, Canon, no more market researching, this is a a no-brainer.  A DSLR like focusing, metering, ISO/sensitivity, fast zoom fix lens are more important than ASP-C, pixel, and worst of all is to bring interchangeable lens into this segment, it defeats the whole point of being compact.

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Re: More Super G Series Talk
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2011, 01:54:26 AM »